League 1 unsustainable?

[sam4731]

It all seems depressingly simple to me. We've got 36 teams (or maybe 35 soon). 3 divisions of 12 (or 12,12,11).

The standard between the bottom of the championship and top of league 1 is negligible anyway and those teams bounce between the two leagues anyway.

[Cb2]

14 hours ago, langpark said:

A better question is: are the Skolars unsustainable? What ever happened to that supposed takeover?

The proposed buyer pulled out. Skolars is sustainable with funding - £70k a year down to £15k a year isn’t. 
 

Seems to me the only way for clubs to survive and compete in the future is if they have a seriously rich benefactor.

[Derwent Parker]

19 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

It all seems depressingly simple to me. We've got 36 teams (or maybe 35 soon). 3 divisions of 12 (or 12,12,11).

The standard between the bottom of the championship and top of league 1 is negligible anyway and those teams bounce between the two leagues anyway.

That would not be as bad if all 3 leagues were treat same - but they are not 

and I dont mean CF

Current

SL  12 teams = 22 games plus MW = 23  plus loops = 27 games

CH 14 teams = 26 games plus SB = 27 games

L1   10 teams = 18 games plus NOWT = 18 games

The league with the lowest CF given the fewest games and less chance to grow income from match days

L1 Shown no respect from RFL

Edited August 29, 2023 by Derwent Parker
mistake

[Derwent Parker]

15 minutes ago, Cb2 said:

The proposed buyer pulled out. Skolars is sustainable with funding - £70k a year down to £15k a year isn’t. 
 

Seems to me the only way for clubs to survive and compete in the future is if they have a seriously rich benefactor.

As said earlier taking the money from the lowest level to give to the richest [Robin Hood in reverse]

Is causing damage to the foundations.

It wont happen, but if you lost all the teams below SL where you gonna send all your Dual Reg players/loans for match time.

And the gap from Community would become far to huge for most players to cross

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AFTER THE WHOLE PYRAMID - NOT JUST THE SHARP POINTY BIT ON THE TOP!

[del capo]

15 hours ago, doc said:

Didn't Chorley get relegated to a version of the NCL? 

In effect yes.

A deal was done between the RFL and NCL to accept several perceived failing semi pro clubs into the Premier Division of the NCL. They were allowed to retain their contracted players ( and continue to pay them ) and NCL criteria were relaxed for them. In return the NCL received funding including in particular travel subsidy.

All failed on the park largely because they did not have the structures in place off the park to sustain a successful community style club at that level.Some NCL clubs are themselves now struggling because they have not been meeting the criteria, but that's another story.......

[JM2010]

52 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

As said earlier taking the money from the lowest level to give to the richest [Robin Hood in reverse]

Is causing damage to the foundations.

It wont happen, but if you lost all the teams below SL where you gonna send all your Dual Reg players/loans for match time.

And the gap from Community would become far to huge for most players to cross

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AFTER THE WHOLE PYRAMID - NOT JUST THE SHARP POINTY BIT ON THE TOP!

I don’t think any money is being taken from the lowest level to give to the top. SL generate all the money for the TV deal and are just sharing less of it with the bottom. Until more money can be generated at the top then the League 1 clubs aren’t going to get much funding 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

1 hour ago, Derwent Parker said:

 What are Tier 3 regulations?

As far as the ground's concerned a minimum capacity of 1000 with 200 seats under cover and parking for 20 cars.

[Derwent Parker]

4 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I don’t think any money is being taken from the lowest level to give to the top. SL generate all the money for the TV deal and are just sharing less of it with the bottom. Until more money can be generated at the top then the League 1 clubs aren’t going to get much funding 

Word it whichever way you want - you know what i mean.

The RLF should be classed as a family. You dont just look after the top and ignore the rest.

You said "SL generate all the money for the TV deal and are just sharing less of it with the bottom"

So in a family Father/ Mother and kids each get 3 meals a day - Money gets tight - so in your terms in that family

Father/ Mother still get most because they generate the money and kids get less say down to one meal a day?

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

7 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

As far as the ground's concerned a minimum capacity of 1000 with 200 seats under cover and parking for 20 cars.

The RFL can of course grant exceptions to the 'minimum facilities standards' required for each division, as they have for a few SL and Championship clubs

[Derwent Parker]

11 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

As far as the ground's concerned a minimum capacity of 1000 with 200 seats under cover and parking for 20 cars.

Thanks

Just for curiosity - you dont know where this info for Champ and SL

[Moscow01]

Teams that don’t own their ground, and have no way of getting an income from match days are completely done for. In a few years most of the current teams in League 1 will cease to exist, it’s as simple as that. 15 grand a year funding is not enough. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

2 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

Teams that don’t own their ground, and have no way of getting an income from match days are completely done for. In a few years most of the current teams in League 1 will cease to exist, it’s as simple as that. 15 grand a year funding is not enough. 

Unless one has the French model where the Marie gives you the stadium for free and also pays all the bills and lets the club keep 100% of the revenue.

Would be good to see a list (Inc SL) of who owns their own stadiums + outlying land valuation mortgages etc.

 

P 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Derwent Parker said:

 What are Tier 3 regulations?

Regulations for Tier 3.  Or League 1, in the weird way sporting bodies name their leagues these days.

Too long to be typing into an internet forum.

But I'll point you in the direction of the RFL website.

[Moscow01]

There’s a cost of living crisis.  Why would any person want to spend £15-£20 on a ticket, to be sat in a tired old empty stadium watching a game? As sad as it is, League 1 is not going to be around much longer and some very famous old clubs will be gone. 
 

One of the biggest mistakes teams in league 1 make is to call their league ‘the professional ranks’. A new supporter turning up in front of a few hundred fans will not consider that ‘professional’. League 1 should be what it was set out to be a decade or so ago - a development league.  

[del capo]

20 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Thanks

Just for curiosity - you dont know where this info for Champ and SL

Operational Rules Tier 1 - 3 page 380 onwards. You can find it  ( and most other answers ) at rugby-league.com

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

8 minutes ago, del capo said:

Operational Rules Tier 1 - 3 page 380 onwards. You can find it  ( and most other answers ) at rugby-league.com

Direct link 

[sam4731]

1 hour ago, Derwent Parker said:

That would not be as bad if all 3 leagues were treat same - but they are not 

and I dont mean CF

Current

SL  12 teams = 22 games plus MW = 23  plus loops = 27 games

CH 14 teams = 26 games plus SB = 27 games

L1   10 teams = 18 games plus NOWT = 18 games

The league with the lowest CF given the fewest games and less chance to grow income from match days

L1 Shown no respect from RFL

I think we should start getting brutally honest. If you struggle with financial solvency, you aren't ready to be semi pro. Amateur teams choose not to be semi pro because it wouldn't make financial success to. Relying on the RFL for central funding is like the government propping up a failing business, it does no one any favours.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Relying on the RFL for central funding is like the government propping up a failing business, it does no one any favours.

The RFL is due to receive £11.9m from the government over the next five years. Should it not bother?

[moorside roughyed]

On 28/08/2023 at 11:40, daz39 said:

There's plenty of community clubs who could easily fit in to the level of league 1, just promote them.

Also i remember in the old 3 division times we had an 8 team second division.

Totally agree with your first paragraph. You can go and watch amateur and it's not too dissimilar to league1. A damn sight cheaper too.

[Damien]

50 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Word it whichever way you want - you know what i mean.

The RLF should be classed as a family. You dont just look after the top and ignore the rest.

You said "SL generate all the money for the TV deal and are just sharing less of it with the bottom"

So in a family Father/ Mother and kids each get 3 meals a day - Money gets tight - so in your terms in that family

Father/ Mother still get most because they generate the money and kids get less say down to one meal a day?

Your analogy is false because SL clubs are getting less too. I personally wouldn't have cut funding as much to League 1, as its peanuts in the Grand scheme of things to a SL club, but SL clubs have taken huge reductions too. Its not a case of the parents eating the same and the kids starving on one meal a day.

[sam4731]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The RFL is due to receive £11.9m from the government over the next five years. Should it not bother?

But the RFL is a not-for-profit governing body. It's profits are reinvested and decisions are not driven by self interested shareholders. The RFL's 'funding', is it's source of income. That level of funding is dependent on the value that it brings to the economy. 

[del capo]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The RFL is due to receive £11.9m from the government over the next five years. Should it not bother?

Those funds are ring fenced and specifically targeted. The RFL have to account for them on a quarterly basis. They cannot be used as hand outs to semi pro clubs who have been told for a number of years now that they need to learn to stand on their own feet , just like all community clubs must.

Watched a great touch rugby festival on saturday. Speaking to a club stalwart there he said that two funerals  last week in the clubhouse took £1500. whilst a friday night disco party in their function room took £4000 over the bar. Profit is approx 45%. Bloody hard work but the only way forward is to run as a business......

[Gomersall]

56 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Unless one has the French model where the Marie gives you the stadium for free and also pays all the bills and lets the club keep 100% of the revenue.

Would be good to see a list (Inc SL) of who owns their own stadiums + outlying land valuation mortgages etc.

 

P 

Do the Marie give the clubs the stadium or just allow them to play there for a peppercorn rent?

[Gomersall]

20 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

I think we should start getting brutally honest. If you struggle with financial solvency, you aren't ready to be semi pro. Amateur teams choose not to be semi pro because it wouldn't make financial success to. Relying on the RFL for central funding is like the government propping up a failing business, it does no one any favours.

How do you think the game survived before SL and Sky money came along?

[tim2]

22 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

How do you think the game survived before SL and Sky money came along?

By being 90% part-time and not re-investing in stadiums.