Beaumont has another tantrum, threatens to stop investing in Leigh

[RBKnight]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

You do know who the 'Wigan' miners of of October 1926 where don't you?

 

So you're suggesting that actually it's Leigh marking the near-centenary by giving up this season early ? 

Sounds about right.....

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Padge said:

You do know who the 'Wigan' miners of of October 1926 where don't you?

 

The moniker “pie-eaters” in fact appears to date back to the 1926 General Strike, when workers went on strike in protest at the pay and conditions for coal miners. As an area heavily reliant on the coal mining industry, the strike had a profound effect on the people of Wigan, who were the first to “break” the strike (to go back to work), as they were essentially starving. This lead to miners of the neighbouring town of Leigh (known as Leythers) to refer to Wiganers as “pie eaters”, them having, in effect, been forced to “eat humble pie” and return to work.

[ATLANTISMAN]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

The moniker “pie-eaters” in fact appears to date back to the 1926 General Strike, when workers went on strike in protest at the pay and conditions for coal miners. As an area heavily reliant on the coal mining industry, the strike had a profound effect on the people of Wigan, who were the first to “break” the strike (to go back to work), as they were essentially starving. This lead to miners of the neighbouring town of Leigh (known as Leythers) to refer to Wiganers as “pie eaters”, them having, in effect, been forced to “eat humble pie” and return to work.

That's 2 interesting historical facts for me in less than a day Harry.

Last night Bob a friend of mine (We used to work on the pirate radio ships together) went out for dinner and the conversation led  us to discuss Holland (Bob lives there since his days on Radio North Sea International in the early seventies) conversation went on to Ireland and the Orangemen and the story of the English and Dutch having a boat race first one to put his hand on shore wins Ireland one English man supposedly cut off his hand in a neck and neck race and threw it on the beach hence the bloody hand on the Ulster flag.

Total RL forum the ultimate place for knowledge:))

Edited September 29, 2023 by ATLANTISMAN

[koli]

The red hand of Ulster goes back long long before the Williamite Wars.

[Barley Mow]

33 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

That's 2 interesting historical facts for me in less than a day Harry.

Last night Bob a friend of mine (We used to work on the pirate radio ships together) went out for dinner and the conversation led  us to discuss Holland (Bob lives there since his days on Radio North Sea International in the early seventies) conversation went on to Ireland and the Orangemen and the story of the English and Dutch having a boat race first one to put his hand on shore wins Ireland one English man supposedly cut off his hand in a neck and neck race and threw it on the beach hence the bloody hand on the Ulster flag.

Total RL forum the ultimate place for knowledge:))

The red hand of Ulster is actually taken from the the seal/arms of the O'Neill family who were traditional chieftains in Ulster and later Earls of Tyrone.

The story you heard is almost correct, but it was an O'Neill and a rival (both Irish rather than Dutch and English) who feature in the mythical tale of racing across the water to claim a piece of land. As @koli says, the myth originates long before the 17th century.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Damien]

51 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

That's 2 interesting historical facts for me in less than a day Harry.

Last night Bob a friend of mine (We used to work on the pirate radio ships together) went out for dinner and the conversation led  us to discuss Holland (Bob lives there since his days on Radio North Sea International in the early seventies) conversation went on to Ireland and the Orangemen and the story of the English and Dutch having a boat race first one to put his hand on shore wins Ireland one English man supposedly cut off his hand in a neck and neck race and threw it on the beach hence the bloody hand on the Ulster flag.

Total RL forum the ultimate place for knowledge:))

Bob is wrong 

[Padge]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

The moniker “pie-eaters” in fact appears to date back to the 1926 General Strike, when workers went on strike in protest at the pay and conditions for coal miners. As an area heavily reliant on the coal mining industry, the strike had a profound effect on the people of Wigan, who were the first to “break” the strike (to go back to work), as they were essentially starving. This lead to miners of the neighbouring town of Leigh (known as Leythers) to refer to Wiganers as “pie eaters”, them having, in effect, been forced to “eat humble pie” and return to work.

Utterly untrue. you obviously don't know who the 'Wigan' miners where.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Padge

[GUBRATS]

Oh dear 

I hope nobody gets banned for thread drift 

[Gerrumonside ref]

I think this thread needs putting out of its misery - everyone should shake hands.

The playoffs are starting!

Edited September 29, 2023 by Gerrumonside ref

[ATLANTISMAN]

1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think this thread needs putting out of its misery - everyone should shake hands.

The playoffs are starting!

I would if i had one it's buried in the sand in Ireland

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

The playoffs are starting!

And we can go around again tonight!

[Padge]

Ok, last word ( a lot of them on this), lets set the record straight.

The 1926 miners strike started to unravel in the summer of 1926, the Nottingham and Derbyshire miners were starting to return in small numbers but was increasing fast, Warwickshire and South Wales miners started to follow.

In Lancashire the miners were standing firm despite other areas showing cracks. In mid August 1926 it was reported that 20,000 had returned in Derbyshire, 6,000 in Warwickshire and 13,100 in North Staff and Cannock Chase. The same report (Liverpool Daily Post) stated that there were no signs of miners returning in Durham Northumberland or Lancashire.

The first sign of Lancashire cracking was towards the end of August when 83 miners (nearly the full total employed) returned at Deerplay Colliery, it was also reported that at other Rossendale collieries, namely Stacksteads, Grime Bridge pits and Nab Colliery. By the middle of September the return had spread to Burnley and Accrington with the first 50 men returning. These were followed by the miners at Rishton Colliery Blackburn when on Friday the 17th September the offices were overrun with over 100 men signing up to return. The owners of the East Lancashire pits were arranging to run 3 shifts the following Monday. The only East Lancashire pit holding out was Townley in Burnley. All the returnees had to agree terms that included an eight hour day.

South Lancashire was still standing firm but by October 2nd it was being reported that some miners had returned at Atherton (1,422) and at Ashton Moss colliery (Ashton-Under-Lyne) 350 of the 500 miners had returned. St.Helens miners had now started to also return in small numbers. Following an intervention by officials, visiting .miners at home, some Atherton re-joined the strike meaning the next day the number was down to 1,254, the Atherton miners were being bribed with a £1 bonus to those who had worked 3 days and 10s to anyone who signed up the following Thursday. By the 5th October 1,505 Atherton miners had returned. Similar bribes were being offered in St.Helens.

The South Lancashire coalfields were dominated by the Wigan coalfield and Leigh coalfield with Wigan by far the largest with an estimated 30,000 miners. The Leigh coalfield included Atherton, Tyldesley, Astley, Bickershaw and West Leigh along with the newer Parsonage. The Wigan coalfield, included Aston-in-Makerfield, Bryn, Pemberton, Worsley Mesnes, Standish, Up-Holland, Haigh, Abram and Aspull.

The £1 bribe didn't seem to work too well at Bickershaw as only 8 out of 2,400 turned up for work. The mine owners were putting in a concerted effort to get miners at West Leigh back to work as this was seen as key to cracking the resolve of the south Lancashire coalfields.

What of the Wigan Coalfield, it was reported that just over 500 of the 30,000 Wigan miners had returned to work at the beginning of October, the newspapers reported very little about miners in Wigan returning to work which would seem to imply that very few were returning.

On the 12th October it was reported that 700 men had returned at Astley colliery and 40 each at Bickershaw and Parsonage and 60 at Bedford Colliery Leigh.

The Manchester Evening news on the 12th reported that "The biggest breakaway of miners in Lancashire since the coal stoppage started is reported today. At Tyldesley the rush of men to sign on was so great that in one case men were sent home because of a lack of working places."
"Over 4,000 men returned to work in Tydseley and Leigh districts seventy-five percent of the colliers are working at Tydesley"
"Today's figures in the Wigan district show that considerably over 500 are now at work at Garswood Hall collieries, Ashton-in-Makerfield and nearly 250 at J. and R. collieries at Garswood."
"The figures at Pemberton collieries are the same as yesterday - nearly 400 men. Two hundred men are engaged at Abram colliery, 200 at Upholland and about 100 at Ince."

Three days later the MEN reported that there was an increase of 740 in the number of miners at work in the Leigh district, 3,200 of 7,500. Plank Lane had 984 out of 2,400 working and at West Leigh 200 were working up by 120. Mr. J. Tinker M.P. admitted that a break in the ranks of Lancashire miners had taken place. The bonus inducements of the owners he termed "Judas Money". Implying that most had returned after the offers of bonuses.

From the MEN report it shows that the Wigan coalfield miners were a lot slower at returning to work than those in the Leigh coalfield. The collapse in support in Leigh seems to have started at Atherton and moved on to Tyldesley and Astley.

Which begs the question why in Leigh do they have a perception that it Was the return of the miners in the Wigan coalfield that caused the collapse when the cause was closer to home.

A large number of pits in the Leigh coalfield were owned by the Wigan Coal and Iron Company, it was the return of miners at the pits owned by this company (along with some others) that precipitated the collapse, and hence it was the Wigan (Coal and Iron Company) miners that were blamed. A lack of understanding in later years created the myth of pie-eaters from Wigan.

The miners of the Atherton, Astley collieries returned to work on less favourable terms than when the strike started, and they had thus eaten humble pie.

The figures given were reported almost daily in the papers at the time and that is where I have taken them from.

[Jim Prendle]

41 minutes ago, Padge said:

Ok, last word ( a lot of them on this), lets set the record straight.

The 1926 miners strike started to unravel in the summer of 1926, the Nottingham and Derbyshire miners were starting to return in small numbers but was increasing fast, Warwickshire and South Wales miners started to follow.

In Lancashire the miners were standing firm despite other areas showing cracks. In mid August 1926 it was reported that 20,000 had returned in Derbyshire, 6,000 in Warwickshire and 13,100 in North Staff and Cannock Chase. The same report (Liverpool Daily Post) stated that there were no signs of miners returning in Durham Northumberland or Lancashire.

The first sign of Lancashire cracking was towards the end of August when 83 miners (nearly the full total employed) returned at Deerplay Colliery, it was also reported that at other Rossendale collieries, namely Stacksteads, Grime Bridge pits and Nab Colliery. By the middle of September the return had spread to Burnley and Accrington with the first 50 men returning. These were followed by the miners at Rishton Colliery Blackburn when on Friday the 17th September the offices were overrun with over 100 men signing up to return. The owners of the East Lancashire pits were arranging to run 3 shifts the following Monday. The only East Lancashire pit holding out was Townley in Burnley. All the returnees had to agree terms that included an eight hour day.

South Lancashire was still standing firm but by October 2nd it was being reported that some miners had returned at Atherton (1,422) and at Ashton Moss colliery (Ashton-Under-Lyne) 350 of the 500 miners had returned. St.Helens miners had now started to also return in small numbers. Following an intervention by officials, visiting .miners at home, some Atherton re-joined the strike meaning the next day the number was down to 1,254, the Atherton miners were being bribed with a £1 bonus to those who had worked 3 days and 10s to anyone who signed up the following Thursday. By the 5th October 1,505 Atherton miners had returned. Similar bribes were being offered in St.Helens.

The South Lancashire coalfields were dominated by the Wigan coalfield and Leigh coalfield with Wigan by far the largest with an estimated 30,000 miners. The Leigh coalfield included Atherton, Tyldesley, Astley, Bickershaw and West Leigh along with the newer Parsonage. The Wigan coalfield, included Aston-in-Makerfield, Bryn, Pemberton, Worsley Mesnes, Standish, Up-Holland, Haigh, Abram and Aspull.

The £1 bribe didn't seem to work too well at Bickershaw as only 8 out of 2,400 turned up for work. The mine owners were putting in a concerted effort to get miners at West Leigh back to work as this was seen as key to cracking the resolve of the south Lancashire coalfields.

What of the Wigan Coalfield, it was reported that just over 500 of the 30,000 Wigan miners had returned to work at the beginning of October, the newspapers reported very little about miners in Wigan returning to work which would seem to imply that very few were returning.

On the 12th October it was reported that 700 men had returned at Astley colliery and 40 each at Bickershaw and Parsonage and 60 at Bedford Colliery Leigh.

The Manchester Evening news on the 12th reported that "The biggest breakaway of miners in Lancashire since the coal stoppage started is reported today. At Tyldesley the rush of men to sign on was so great that in one case men were sent home because of a lack of working places."
"Over 4,000 men returned to work in Tydseley and Leigh districts seventy-five percent of the colliers are working at Tydesley"
"Today's figures in the Wigan district show that considerably over 500 are now at work at Garswood Hall collieries, Ashton-in-Makerfield and nearly 250 at J. and R. collieries at Garswood."
"The figures at Pemberton collieries are the same as yesterday - nearly 400 men. Two hundred men are engaged at Abram colliery, 200 at Upholland and about 100 at Ince."

Three days later the MEN reported that there was an increase of 740 in the number of miners at work in the Leigh district, 3,200 of 7,500. Plank Lane had 984 out of 2,400 working and at West Leigh 200 were working up by 120. Mr. J. Tinker M.P. admitted that a break in the ranks of Lancashire miners had taken place. The bonus inducements of the owners he termed "Judas Money". Implying that most had returned after the offers of bonuses.

From the MEN report it shows that the Wigan coalfield miners were a lot slower at returning to work than those in the Leigh coalfield. The collapse in support in Leigh seems to have started at Atherton and moved on to Tyldesley and Astley.

Which begs the question why in Leigh do they have a perception that it Was the return of the miners in the Wigan coalfield that caused the collapse when the cause was closer to home.

A large number of pits in the Leigh coalfield were owned by the Wigan Coal and Iron Company, it was the return of miners at the pits owned by this company (along with some others) that precipitated the collapse, and hence it was the Wigan (Coal and Iron Company) miners that were blamed. A lack of understanding in later years created the myth of pie-eaters from Wigan.

The miners of the Atherton, Astley collieries returned to work on less favourable terms than when the strike started, and they had thus eaten humble pie.

The figures given were reported almost daily in the papers at the time and that is where I have taken them from.

That all sounds feasible but it can’t be true because Harry says it isn’t.

[John Drake]

3 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think this thread needs putting out of its misery.

I agree.

Sometimes I feel like shutting the whole forum down every now and then, especially at weekends, just for a bit of peace and quiet from all the huffing and puffing and self-righteousness.