The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Gooleboy]

So will London be relegated wherever they finish in this coming season? If so, doesn't anyone else think that is a bizarre situation for a major sport?

[Griff]

35 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

So will London be relegated wherever they finish in this coming season? If so, doesn't anyone else think that is a bizarre situation for a major sport?

It's not certain.

But it's not looking good.

[Dave T]

46 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

So will London be relegated wherever they finish in this coming season? If so, doesn't anyone else think that is a bizarre situation for a major sport?

I believe so yes. I don't think it is possible for them to bring their score up to reach the level needed to stay in SL.

But it is important to provide the context here. This isn't a flaw with the new system, this is purely an outcome of moving from one system to another, as well as a freak level of performance from London on the field. It is important to not that this situation could never happen again, it is an anomaly purely due to the change in system.

I do think we are possibly in for some controversy this year, and I don't personally think it is regarding London, I think we have some challenges around the likes of Salford, Leigh, Cas, Wakey, Toulouse etc. 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I believe so yes. I don't think it is possible for them to bring their score up to reach the level needed to stay in SL.

But it is important to provide the context here. This isn't a flaw with the new system, this is purely an outcome of moving from one system to another, as well as a freak level of performance from London on the field. It is important to not that this situation could never happen again, it is an anomaly purely due to the change in system.

I would say it's more the result of putting all one's resources into the on-field performance basket.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

I would say it's more the result of putting all one's resources into the on-field performance basket.

Thats why London are in the predicament, but that would have been fine if they weren't changing the system. 

But we all knew the system was changing, London voted for the change. 

The new system is designed to stop weak clubs like London making SL. If they want in, they need to be a stronger club. 

[Lowdesert]

Are London stopping their academy now, for their own, bespoke, pathways scheme?

[DEANO]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

I would say it's more the result of putting all one's resources into the on-field performance basket.

Fancy that. Can’t believe they’re deliberately trying to win games

[Tommygilf]

15 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Fancy that. Can’t believe they’re deliberately trying to win games

At the expense of hollowing out the rest of the club. Well done, you've exposed the precise problem grading is dealing with.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

I would say it's more the result of putting all one's resources into the on-field performance basket.

I'm not sure they can even be accused of doing that really. It's not like they spent big or went full time like Fev. They seemed to scrape into the play offs and pulled off a big shock in going all the way.

[Griff]

43 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Fancy that. Can’t believe they’re deliberately trying to win games

Rugby League is about so much more than winning games.

[Griff]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure they can even be accused of doing that really. It's not like they spent big or went full time like Fev. They seemed to scrape into the play offs and pulled off a big shock in going all the way.

They were awesome in the second half of the season.  And, yes, they made some big signings. We've no idea what they cost, of course.

[DEANO]

44 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

At the expense of hollowing out the rest of the club. Well done, you've exposed the precise problem grading is dealing with.

Your right. Should never been allowed access to super greed with all the money they spent on players

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Your right. Should never been allowed access to super greed with all the money they spent on players

*You're.

They are a shell of a club, they need massive investment in their off field operations.

[DEANO]

You’re () right again. What we need is a league full of teams that have decent stadiums lots of fans no debts and lots of social media clicks

[Click]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

At the expense of hollowing out the rest of the club. Well done, you've exposed the precise problem grading is dealing with.

Not sure you can really use the term "hollowing out" as there wasn't really any substance there to begin with. 

[Griff]

23 minutes ago, DEANO said:

You’re () right again. What we need is a league full of teams that have decent stadiums lots of fans no debts and lots of social media clicks

You were against big crowds and good stadia? But Tommy's convinced you?

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure they can even be accused of doing that really. It's not like they spent big or went full time like Fev. They seemed to scrape into the play offs and pulled off a big shock in going all the way.

This is pretty much what happened. Even now, the club barely exists in any real sense.

[Chris22]

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

I do think we are possibly in for some controversy this year, and I don't personally think it is regarding London, I think we have some challenges around the likes of Salford, Leigh, Cas, Wakey, Toulouse etc. 

I expect a swap between London and Wakefield, but based on the indicative gradings, it is highly likely that Toulouse will replace Leigh, even if Leigh achieve a mid table finish.

Leigh are likely to lose points unless they retain the Challenge Cup. It could be that a side that finishes 5th and wins the Challenge Cup in 2023 and performs respectably in 2024 will be relegated.

[Tommygilf]

44 minutes ago, Click said:

Not sure you can really use the term "hollowing out" as there wasn't really any substance there to begin with. 

There was more than now tbf.

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I expect a swap between London and Wakefield, but based on the indicative gradings, it is highly likely that Toulouse will replace Leigh, even if Leigh achieve a mid table finish.

Leigh are likely to lose points unless they retain the Challenge Cup. It could be that a side that finishes 5th and wins the Challenge Cup in 2023 and performs respectably in 2024 will be relegated.

Yes, I think there is a possibility of this, and I'm not 100% sure that passes the sniff test for the process. 

[gittinsfan]

44 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, I think there is a possibility of this, and I'm not 100% sure that passes the sniff test for the process. 

 

44 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, I think there is a possibility of this, and I'm not 100% sure that passes the sniff test for the process. 

I can see the justification for a London relegation.But if Leigh are relegated after a mid table finish the RFL will become a laughing stock.And that will be totally justified.

[Gooleboy]

57 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I expect a swap between London and Wakefield, but based on the indicative gradings, it is highly likely that Toulouse will replace Leigh, even if Leigh achieve a mid table finish.

Leigh are likely to lose points unless they retain the Challenge Cup. It could be that a side that finishes 5th and wins the Challenge Cup in 2023 and performs respectably in 2024 will be relegated.

Well for me, if that happened it would be beyond belief and would do nothing for the games reputation. What fans of other sports would make of it, God only knows.

[Hopie]

London might not have been given a B grade if this was the case (a higher threshold to get a B might have been implemented) but I still think P+R based on league tables between B grade clubs would have been a fairer system than P+R based only on gradings. The disruption of relegation is more than balanced out by the massive disparity between "central funding" between club 12 and club 13 in the grades. Why should one club be getting 100s of thousands of pounds more every year to invest in the club based on a fraction of a grading point.

[Dave T]

5 hours ago, Hopie said:

London might not have been given a B grade if this was the case (a higher threshold to get a B might have been implemented) but I still think P+R based on league tables between B grade clubs would have been a fairer system than P+R based only on gradings. The disruption of relegation is more than balanced out by the massive disparity between "central funding" between club 12 and club 13 in the grades. Why should one club be getting 100s of thousands of pounds more every year to invest in the club based on a fraction of a grading point.

I suppose it depends what we are fixing for. 

There are a few major issues with P&R that are called out by opponents to it. 

1. The uncertainty and shock it brings when relegation happens

2. Clubs who are promoted don't get a set period and are at a disadvantage. 

3. Encourages short term decisions, with focus on spending on players rather than strengthening the club. 

IMO, this new system doesn't really address these issues, it partially addresses point 3, and London is a stark example of that. 

They have basically retained P&R and therefore not addressed points 1 and 2. If they are retaining P&R, I'd have no issues with your proposal, but I think you would have to raise the drawbridge on clubs like London and rank them C. 

[Dave T]

On 29/01/2024 at 15:45, Taffy Tiger said:

Hi Dave T , as I understand it you do get at least 1 year of protection . If you are Grade A in 2024 , have a terrible season in 2025 and drop down to 13th best club in ratings (and Grade B) you wouldn't be relegated . However the following season (2026) you wouldn't be exempt from relegation as you would start it as Cat B, so if you are outside top 12 in 2026 gradings then you would be relegated (presuming you were still Cat B)

Taffy, thinking about this a touch more, I'm still not following the exemption piece. 

My understanding is that your rankings in October of each year decide where you will play. 

So let's say we follow your example and Hull KR drop a few points which sees them drop to a B ranking and they are overtaken by a handful of clubs. If they are ranked 13th and B, why wouldn't they be ousted? 

Isn't it the case that the top 12 ranked clubs in Oct 2024 will play in SL in 2025? Their 2023 ranking is wiped.