England vs Samoa Series

[Damien]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Absolutely.

That Samoa can turn England down says it all really. We reap what we have sowed unfortunately.

Absolutely, as I say I dont blame Samoa. Would following the Tonga tour, 3 games played 60 miles apart along the M62 at bog standard SL grounds, really appeal to any touring side compared to playing at home in the Pacific Championship. The only thing that can make that appealing is a shedload of money and the RFL in their conservative execution even failed at showing it could provide that.

[Lowdesert]

13 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

What other options do the RFL actually have? Looks like Samoa are joining the other 3 for a 4N Pacific Cup. 
Fiji? PNG?

What say Tonga are now added to that group, leaving England to make their own plans?

Simon Johnson looking to IRL and RFL Commercial.  Deary me.

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, Damien said:

The thing is as well the RFL desperately needs teams to tour here to provide revenue and dig them out of the hole they are in. We really need to get the Aussies across here, like the cancelled 2020 tour that was meant to be played in big stadiums, to provide revenue and kickstart things again.

There are shades here of 2001 and the RFL begging the Aussies to tour to save them. I think we are probably at that time again.

I'm not sure this is a fair narrative. Let's be completely honest here, these have never been huge profit drivers. 

I think this is a narrative that is used by Aussies who don't buy into international RL. 

The real reason these games need to happen is because playing internationals all over the world is how we will grow the game. 

Australian Woolf carried on the narrative last week on his sour grapes rant, saying they only came over to help the RFL. 

If the likes of NZ and the Pacific Nations have bought into the Australian plan of keeping NRL players Down Under to control them, then international RL is all but dead. 

That's far more important than the RFL improving it's profit by a couple of hundred thousand.

[Odsal Outlaw]

Make the Pacific Champ a qualifier to tour England and send NZ here in 2024.

Two benefits, we get guaranteed games and Aus would lose a final every year just to avoid touring

[crashmon]

colour me not surprised on this.  I was expecting this TBH.

So no International Rugby at all for England next year unless we set up a fixture for England vs SH players who not good enough to play in the NRL also known as the combined nations all stars

[Dave T]

21 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Absolutely.

That Samoa can turn England down says it all really. We reap what we have sowed unfortunately.

Nothing we have done has led to us being deserted by the Aussies, Kiwis and now Pacific Nations. 

This is simply the Aussies taking full control of the World game. 

Let's not start making out that the likes of Samoa and other Pacific Nations are right to refuse to come to the UK. 

It's UK international tournaments that have been the lifeblood of many tier 2 nations. These are nations that don't even stage a game in their country. They are being bought off by the Aussies who will toss them aside quicker than you can say World Cup Nines. 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nothing we have done has led to us being deserted by the Aussies, Kiwis and now Pacific Nations. 

This is simply the Aussies taking full control of the World game. 

Let's not start making out that the likes of Samoa and other Pacific Nations are right to refuse to come to the UK. 

It's UK international tournaments that have been the lifeblood of many tier 2 nations. These are nations that don't even stage a game in their country. They are being bought off by the Aussies who will toss them aside quicker than you can say World Cup Nines. 

We've not built an international space independent of Australia that is resilient enough to be attractive - either here in the NH or in the SH.

[crashmon]

Who now thinks that NZ will tour in 2027 and Aus in 2028?  Answers on a postcard

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure this is a fair narrative. Let's be completely honest here, these have never been huge profit drivers. 

I think this is a narrative that is used by Aussies who don't buy into international RL. 

The real reason these games need to happen is because playing internationals all over the world is how we will grow the game. 

Australian Woolf carried on the narrative last week on his sour grapes rant, saying they only came over to help the RFL. 

If the likes of NZ and the Pacific Nations have bought into the Australian plan of keeping NRL players Down Under to control them, then international RL is all but dead. 

That's far more important than the RFL improving it's profit by a couple of hundred thousand.

Internationals have always been major sources of income for the RFL, Ashes tours especially. Apart from taking a cut of TV money and the 2 finals they have nothing other than internationals. I don't know how you can be so dismissive of them as a source of revenue, we have just done the last few years very badly.

Even at conservative sales figures the 2020 planned Ashes tour would have had a few million in revenue. Obviously profits less than that but it would have been a boon to a RFL that trades on such fine margins.

[Lowdesert]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

We've not built an international space independent of Australia that is resilient enough to be attractive - either here in the NH or in the SH.

I think it’s more that the NRL has the influence over nations dependant on them as well as a toothless quango that is the IRL federation, rather than our efforts.

 

[Dave T]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

We've not built an international space independent of Australia that is resilient enough to be attractive - either here in the NH or in the SH.

There isn't one to be had. 

Scotland and Ireland aren't strong, Wales haven't been since Union players stopped coming, we play France regularly and they aren't very good either. 

We actually did build a strong relationship with the Kiwis which involved two series in a few years and a Denver test. This peed off the Aussies and here we are now. 

There are no quality international teams outside of the Aussie sphere of control. 

[gingerjon]

Everyone who positively welcomed the venue selection and set up of the Tonga series as laying the foundations?

Well done. Very well done.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Internationals have always been major sources of income for the RFL, Ashes tours especially. Apart from taking a cut of TV money and the 2 finals they have nothing other than internationals. I don't know how you can be so dismissive of them as a source of revenue, we have just done the last few years very badly.

Even at conservative sales figures the 2020 planned Ashes tour would have had a few million in revenue. Obviously profits less than that but it would have been a boon to a RFL that trades on such fine margins.

I'm not being dismissive of the financials, more that individual series' themselves are not all about the cash.

This really is about the bigger picture of the international game, and this is a dangerous time for the sport imo. 

[Dave T]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Everyone who positively welcomed the venue selection and set up of the Tonga series as laying the foundations?

Well done. Very well done.

Can you quote a single post of anyone celebrating that series? Because it was universally criticised here. 

 

[Lowdesert]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Everyone who positively welcomed the venue selection and set up of the Tonga series as laying the foundations?

Well done. Very well done.

None of that would have influenced the NRLs decision makers.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I think it’s more that the NRL has the influence over nations dependant on them as well as a toothless quango that is the IRL federation, rather than our efforts.

 

Spot on. 

The NRL hated us making an effort (Denver) and here we are now. 

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Everyone who positively welcomed the venue selection and set up of the Tonga series as laying the foundations?

Well done. Very well done.

Which was pretty much nobody.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Which was pretty much nobody.

A fair few on here.

[Mathius Hellwege]

The NRL bets big on international rugby league

They realized their mistake in not getting Tonga due to the CBA.

a 4Ntournament is much better than an 3N tournament.

We will get Papua or Fiji.

2027 and 2028 are possible if we make 2024 a success or if AUS/NZ think they will draw big crowds in three 50.000+ stadiums

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

None of that would have influenced the NRLs decision makers.

A decent series with high attendances and a decent event buzz certainly would have.

We did none of that.

This situation is entirely on English rugby league.

[graveyard johnny]

Just now, Mathius Hellwege said:

 

We will get Papua or Fiji.

 

WOW!  cant wait 

[Dave T]

It is crystal clear what this is. It is the NRL putting the RFL in its place. It won't kill us off, they will do enough to make us wholly dependent on them so that we take their scraps and go with what they want each year without question. 

It's a deeply unpleasant relationship. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Dave T

[crashmon]

3 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

We will get Papua or Fiji.

Bring them both over, include france and have our own 4 nations with some games in France....

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

A decent series with high attendances and a decent event buzz certainly would have.

We did none of that.

This situation is entirely on English rugby league.

Did Samoa see that 13k crowd in Hamilton for the Pacific Final and think "There's a tournament going places?" 

[Lowdesert]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

A decent series with high attendances and a decent event buzz certainly would have.

We did none of that.

This situation is entirely on English rugby league.

It isn’t.  This situation has been coming for several years and I’d be amazed if it wasn’t in the RFLs risk planning. 
 

Thinking about it, maybe I aren’t surprised.