England vs Samoa Series

[Hopie]

I just heard that Garry Schofield was invited to the game at Headingley (along with some other former internationals?) to be presented to the crowd, and he did go but the introduction didn't happen for some reason.

His family bought tickets to come see that, I suppose that is one way to sell tickets, but doesn't make the organisers look good if that is how they treat guests, not as if it would have got in the way of any pre match entertainment!

[Worzel]

33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The lifetime value piece is absolutely critical. When we look at marketing cost we cant just look at that as selling a ticket for £25. It's attracting a customer. A premium customer, or whatever we want to call them could be worth hundreds or thousands of pounds, depending on what term you measure it over.

In our bank we sometimes measure customer value over 10 years for example.

Precisely this, it's direct marketing fundamentals. When I was running a training company in the early 2000's we used to spend £1.50 for every £1 of spend from a new customer. But I knew that our remarketing cost to a prior customer was only 20p to the pound. So on the 2nd purchase you'd made a small positive return versus not doing any new customer marketing, and because we knew our average customer bought 5 events across 5 years we had a strong sense of how the ROI would play out down the line. 

With the level of data segmentation and customer journey analytics available today, it's even easier to see (and to make tiny tactical adjustments along that journey too).

IMG is full of people who know this stuff, so I know we have access to the capability now. But we also need the will to spend the money at the outset. Just ideas, theories and dreams otherwise.  

[Mojo]

6 hours ago, Human Punk said:

I find that really hard to understand. I'm from Scotland, and the same weekend England were playing Samoa in Leeds the Scotland RU team were playing a sell-out match against a decidedly poor opposition (Fiji). Over 50K turned out for that, yet you'd be lucky if a tenth of that number show any interest in domestic RU. I appreciate that there are a number of factors involved, but whatever way you look at it, the contrast is shocking. What is it about international RL that's so unattractive? Samoa are a decent side, even without the likes of Crichton. Why not just go along, and help make RL as a whole stronger? It's just sad more than anything.

The international game in the Southern hemisphere is growing every year. I think it all starts I'm the SL and the way you guys promote the game. For example over on this side of the world there's a whole heap of podcast every week building up the games and putting contents on social media. Technology is such a huge thing not that fans just relies on social media more then the media. When the samoan team toured England there was hardly and build up from the media during the week. I think that's also due to team naming list coming out a day before kickoff and then the final team list on game day. England definitely needs to get with the times and promote the game more. Team List should come out early during the week to get the fans excited about the potential matchups that they're going to watch on game day. The little things makes a huge difference. I also think Samoa and England should've had fan days during the week to get the fans engaged more with the players. I felt like the build up was very flat.

[StandOffHalf]

15 minutes ago, Mojo said:

The international game in the Southern hemisphere is growing every year. I think it all starts I'm the SL and the way you guys promote the game. For example over on this side of the world there's a whole heap of podcast every week building up the games and putting contents on social media. Technology is such a huge thing not that fans just relies on social media more then the media. When the samoan team toured England there was hardly and build up from the media during the week. I think that's also due to team naming list coming out a day before kickoff and then the final team list on game day. England definitely needs to get with the times and promote the game more. Team List should come out early during the week to get the fans excited about the potential matchups that they're going to watch on game day. The little things makes a huge difference. I also think Samoa and England should've had fan days during the week to get the fans engaged more with the players. I felt like the build up was very flat.

Well said.

SL team lists should be published all at the same time on Tuesday or Wednesday. Coming out in alphabetical order and dribs-and-drabs doesn't build anticipation and does nothing to pull casual viewers in.

Little things such as this can make the sport in England much more accessible, appealing, exciting.

Agreed on the preview stuff as well. Even a 15-minute preview mid-week after team lists for social media and YT would increase visibility.

It's not rocket science!

[Hopie]

18 minutes ago, Mojo said:

The international game in the Southern hemisphere is growing every year. I think it all starts I'm the SL and the way you guys promote the game. For example over on this side of the world there's a whole heap of podcast every week building up the games and putting contents on social media. Technology is such a huge thing not that fans just relies on social media more then the media. When the samoan team toured England there was hardly and build up from the media during the week. I think that's also due to team naming list coming out a day before kickoff and then the final team list on game day. England definitely needs to get with the times and promote the game more. Team List should come out early during the week to get the fans excited about the potential matchups that they're going to watch on game day. The little things makes a huge difference. I also think Samoa and England should've had fan days during the week to get the fans engaged more with the players. I felt like the build up was very flat.

The international game is smaller than it was a few years ago, the pacific cup is a downgrade on the old four/tri nations in terms of fixtures, and there is no ANZAC game., it is false to say it is growing every year.

The little things make a big difference when you are the number one sport in the market. We need more promotion but the day we print the team sheet isn't making a difference.

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

The international game is smaller than it was a few years ago, the pacific cup is a downgrade on the old four/tri nations in terms of fixtures, and there is no ANZAC game., it is false to say it is growing every year.

The little things make a big difference when you are the number one sport in the market. We need more promotion but the day we print the team sheet isn't making a difference.

Yes games are less now in the Pac championship because Samoa has to travel to England and Tonga last year. I think you are underestimating the value of putting out Team lists early. It's a big factor on promoting games here. The fans get excited to see their fav player or club player get to play that week. The podcast that promotes the game gets the fans excited by talking about certain  match ups. The fact that England don't do this is mind blowing. It goes to show how far behind they are with the times. Everything is on social media now. If you see the Tongan Instagram page they put out content every day and their fans are with them every step.

[Hopie]

11 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Yes games are less now in the Pac championship because Samoa has to travel to England and Tonga last year. I think you are underestimating the value of putting out Team lists early. It's a big factor on promoting games here. The fans get excited to see their fav player or club player get to play that week. The podcast that promotes the game gets the fans excited by talking about certain  match ups. The fact that England don't do this is mind blowing. It goes to show how far behind they are with the times. Everything is on social media now. If you see the Tongan Instagram page they put out content every day and their fans are with them every step.

No the international fixture list is shorter by design, Samoa played 2 games here, Australia didn't play the Kiwis twice like they did in the tri nations.

I am correctly analysing the 19 man squad announcement, we already have the full squad list to speculate the team on the day. There are RL podcasts and social media in the UK so I don't know why you are saying we don't have that?

[Dave T]

7 hours ago, Mojo said:

The international game in the Southern hemisphere is growing every year. I think it all starts I'm the SL and the way you guys promote the game. For example over on this side of the world there's a whole heap of podcast every week building up the games and putting contents on social media. Technology is such a huge thing not that fans just relies on social media more then the media. When the samoan team toured England there was hardly and build up from the media during the week. I think that's also due to team naming list coming out a day before kickoff and then the final team list on game day. England definitely needs to get with the times and promote the game more. Team List should come out early during the week to get the fans excited about the potential matchups that they're going to watch on game day. The little things makes a huge difference. I also think Samoa and England should've had fan days during the week to get the fans engaged more with the players. I felt like the build up was very flat.

There are podcasts and stuff in Aus because there is demand, because they have large audiences. In the UK we have all these thngs for bigger sports.

It isn't that the UK needs to catch up with Australia on things, far from it - it's that we are comparing two massively different sized sports in their market.

Usual caveat, that this view doesn't absolve the RFL of any incompetence.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Dave T said:

There are podcasts and stuff in Aus because there is demand, because they have large audiences. In the UK we have all these thngs for bigger sports.

It isn't that the UK needs to catch up with Australia on things, far from it - it's that we are comparing two massively different sized sports in their market.

Usual caveat, that this view doesn't absolve the RFL of any incompetence.

If you take a step back, it's quite easy to appreciate that the team list thing, in fact, quite possibly the whole structure of game week, works around what bookies want.

[Click]

11 hours ago, Mojo said:

Yes games are less now in the Pac championship because Samoa has to travel to England and Tonga last year. I think you are underestimating the value of putting out Team lists early. It's a big factor on promoting games here. The fans get excited to see their fav player or club player get to play that week. The podcast that promotes the game gets the fans excited by talking about certain  match ups. The fact that England don't do this is mind blowing. It goes to show how far behind they are with the times. Everything is on social media now. If you see the Tongan Instagram page they put out content every day and their fans are with them every step.

Or Australia are so far behind the times that they haven't even learned that conversations can be had and speculation made over who may play or not.

It's almost like it is completely irrelevant and just down to preference ...

[Just Browny]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

If you take a step back, it's quite easy to appreciate that the team list thing, in fact, quite possibly the whole structure of game week, works around what bookies want.

I am a bit dense, can you explain a bit please.

I don't think the team lists thing makes an iota of difference really although it would probably help journalists if the provisional 17 was announced the day before so it could be printed in newspapers etc.

[StandOffHalf]

7 minutes ago, Click said:

Or Australia are so far behind the times that they haven't even learned that conversations can be had and speculation made over who may play or not.

It's almost like it is completely irrelevant and just down to preference ...

Just a simple matter of promotion, outreach, and visibility.

Hardcore fans can take it or leave it, but it would be out there in the week's sporting landscape of news. 

How it is now is just small-time and wilfully outdated.

 

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I am a bit dense, can you explain a bit please.

I don't think the team lists thing makes an iota of difference really although it would probably help journalists if the provisional 17 was announced the day before so it could be printed in newspapers etc.

Australia is mental for gambling. Hooked on it more than any other nation. Normalised to an extent that makes the UK's relationship with booze look positively puritan.

Everything Australian sports do is structured around that - he said with a massive sweeping generalisation - therefore things like early team sheets are very useful to get people to think about their bet, the odds, what else to put some money on.

Being less cynical - Australia's number one sport is cricket and they obsess about team sheets so maybe it's more linked to that.

I'm going to go with the gambling reason though.

[Click]

21 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Just a simple matter of promotion, outreach, and visibility.

Hardcore fans can take it or leave it, but it would be out there in the week's sporting landscape of news. 

How it is now is just small-time and wilfully outdated.

 

Please explain how in anyway it is small-time and outdated?

[JonM]

I wonder whether we could persuade Gerard Sutton to pop over and referee England v France? It would even up the game considerably.

[Barley Mow]

34 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Just a simple matter of promotion, outreach, and visibility.

Hardcore fans can take it or leave it, but it would be out there in the week's sporting landscape of news. 

How it is now is just small-time and wilfully outdated.

 

Interestingly, before the start of the current association football season the Premier League (not a particularly small-time or outdated organisation) changed from teams being announced 60 minutes before kick-off to 75 minutes before.

Perhaps we could follow suit and keep extending the time gradually in order to become less small-time and outdated. 

[MatthewWoody]

Leigh Sports Village, or Toulouse. 

[Just Browny]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Australia is mental for gambling. Hooked on it more than any other nation. Normalised to an extent that makes the UK's relationship with booze look positively puritan.

Everything Australian sports do is structured around that - he said with a massive sweeping generalisation - therefore things like early team sheets are very useful to get people to think about their bet, the odds, what else to put some money on.

Being less cynical - Australia's number one sport is cricket and they obsess about team sheets so maybe it's more linked to that.

I'm going to go with the gambling reason though.

That makes sense, I wondered if you meant that *our* game week was also structured around gambling and I couldn't see why it would differ.

[DI Keith Fowler]

21 hours ago, Hopie said:

I just heard that Garry Schofield was invited to the game at Headingley (along with some other former internationals?) to be presented to the crowd, and he did go but the introduction didn't happen for some reason.

His family bought tickets to come see that, I suppose that is one way to sell tickets, but doesn't make the organisers look good if that is how they treat guests, not as if it would have got in the way of any pre match entertainment!

We can't just play this trick on Garry Schofield every game. We need to put dish soap in his dishwasher, prop a bucket of water above his front door so it falls as he walks in, and maybe set fireworks off on his artificial lawn at 2am if we really want to get him. 

[StandOffHalf]

20 hours ago, Click said:

Please explain how in anyway it is small-time and outdated?

It doesn't pull in non-fans and doesn't make use use of available platforms.

[Click]

5 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

It doesn't pull in non-fans and doesn't make use use of available platforms.

I would say there is very little difference in reach for putting out a 19 man squad compared to 1-17. 
And what available platforms?

[StandOffHalf]

8 minutes ago, Click said:

I would say there is very little difference in reach for putting out a 19 man squad compared to 1-17. 
And what available platforms?

As an outsider over here in Ireland, I can only say that I find it small-time and insular. Mojo seems to agree with me.

Preview clips of a few minutes for FB, Twitter, SL's YT account.

I have no interest in betting. I just think it would help to increase visibility.

Edited November 7 by StandOffHalf

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

It doesn't pull in non-fans and doesn't make use use of available platforms.

I'm afraid there just isn't a logic I can follow here. 

Non-fans are not interested in whether Toby King or Stefan Ratchford is named at Centre for Wire on a weekend. This is 100% a preference piece, some like it to be named early, some are happy with it being left to the last minute when the actual team is confirmed and won't be changed. 

Watching major football tournaments, the discussion all week is around what the team may be, what combinations may be used etc. You could argue that adds to the excitement, talking points, suspense. 

To call it small-minded is weird. It's nothing of the sort and there is no logic to that claim.

[Click]

23 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

As an outsider over here in Ireland, I can only say that I find it small-time and insular. Mojo seems to agree with me.

Preview clips of a few minutes for FB, Twitter, SL's YT account.

I have no interest in betting. I just think it would help to increase visibility.

So it is just preference, that is fine. 

I still don't understand how it is "insular and small-time"

[Worzel]

21 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Australia is mental for gambling. Hooked on it more than any other nation. Normalised to an extent that makes the UK's relationship with booze look positively puritan.

Everything Australian sports do is structured around that - he said with a massive sweeping generalisation - therefore things like early team sheets are very useful to get people to think about their bet, the odds, what else to put some money on.

Being less cynical - Australia's number one sport is cricket and they obsess about team sheets so maybe it's more linked to that.

I'm going to go with the gambling reason though.

Having lived there, I can wholeheartedly back this up. It directly bleeds into editorial presentation too, it's not just confined to advertising around the sport's content: On their rugby league magazine shows they actually have segments where former legends come on, on behalf of one of the bookies, and run the audience through the odds for that round and any special offers that bookie is running that week. It's Laurie Daley at the moment I think. 

The first time you experience it, it's surreal. Imagine Match of the Day, with Gary Linker turning to Ian Wright who then runs you through the BetFred odds for next weekend.