The true sleeping giants of the game

[iffleyox]

38 minutes ago, Midlands hobo said:

The travel tavern would run out of crockery at dinner. Best take your own 

Plates were too small anyway 

[DEANO]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

They seem keener to indulge in bitterness from 30 years ago then notice that 15 years ago it was the RFL who saved them and their ground.

Probably wouldn’t have been in that position 15 years ago had it not been for what happened 30 years ago

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Probably wouldn’t have been in that position 15 years ago had it not been for what happened 30 years ago

You're right. No club in Super League in that period got into financial difficulties.

[DEANO]

26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You're right. No club in Super League in that period got into financial difficulties.

We will never know. All we do know is that it went from cougarmania to nothing overnight once they were denied access to super greed

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, DEANO said:

We will never know. All we do know is that it went from cougarmania to nothing overnight once they were denied access to super greed

Did you know the two seasons - including the filler season - following their exclusion that destroyed everything and led to everyone leaving had higher average crowds than their 1994/5 Division 2 Championship season?

(Source: Rugby League Project)

[Click]

6 minutes ago, DEANO said:

We will never know. All we do know is that it went from cougarmania to nothing overnight once they were denied access to super greed

I just don't understand how people can keep looking at that as the reason they are where they are today.

If cougarmania was that big then you would have thought it could have helped them get into SL later on and stay there. HKR won the 3rd division that year and are now a comfortable SL club, likewise Hull being in the 2nd division also.

 

 

[Mark R]

I guess most of these points of view are based on definitions of sleeping giants.

York and Doncaster are 2 strange calls as neither have won anything ever 

Halifax have had success and Bradford but most of theirs is more recent.

How long do they have to have been sleeping? 

Sleeping giants to me Oldham,Widnes and of course Swinton who even now stand high on the all time honours list.

[DEANO]

52 minutes ago, Click said:

I just don't understand how people can keep looking at that as the reason they are where they are today.

If cougarmania was that big then you would have thought it could have helped them get into SL later on and stay there. HKR won the 3rd division that year and are now a comfortable SL club, likewise Hull being in the 2nd division also.

 

 

If hull or kr had been denied access to super league   Would they be where they are now 

[Mumby Magic]

For me it's hard to become sleeping giant or future giant when our game doesn't allow for mid to long term planning. Half concocted ideas with the don't worry the fans will come has been part of our game for years. I mean Magic Weekend at Elland Road? Let's pay IMG money but ignore them? 

As I've said our game really doesn't allow for sleeping giants. 

Is promotion and relegation with minimum standards, a set and 4 year International calendar and a set league structure that never changes that hard to achieve. Clubs and countries for that matter need targets and structure.

[Taffy Tiger]

Halifax 8000+ average would cause some real problems for IMG utilisation score , with a stadium capacity of just over 5k 

[Taffy Tiger]

22 hours ago, Sidi Fidi Gold said:

Maybe he's Alan Partridge.

Aha! It all makes sense now 

[Click]

1 hour ago, DEANO said:

If hull or kr had been denied access to super league   Would they be where they are now 

Surely every club that wasn't put into in SL at its inception were denied access? So probably where they are now.

[DEANO]

2 minutes ago, Click said:

Surely every club that wasn't put into in SL at its inception were denied access? So probably where they are now.

No you qualified on league position plus I think the 2 failed experiments in Gateshead and Paris 

[bamfordsbeans]

Fax's capacity is around 10,000.

If the Skircoat side was developed this would increase to about 13,000.

In my opinion its a far better stadium for SL than the rest of West Yorkshire with the obvious exception of Headingley.

[Morris Wanchuk]

23 hours ago, Eddie said:

I’ve often thought Norfolk would an ideal expansion spot. The county (nearly 1 million people) only has one professional sports team and it would be great for away trips with weekends on the broads or coast thrown in, or nights out in Norwich. It’s also not difficult to get to from the NW now the A14 is done, or Yorkshire down the A1. People here are also mad for Norfolk and many would support it if it was sold as a Norfolk club. 

I think that could be called Norfolk and Chance but if did ever happen at least they’d have flat pitches! 

[fighting irish]

At risk of becoming boring, BARLA is the biggest sleeping giant in the country.

They have had, during their heyday more adherents than Wigan, Saints, Leeds, or either Hull club.

Some very deep wound has been inflicted on BARLA (I think I know what it was) and since then the damage (and resentment) has caused them to shut up shop.

If only they would realise, that only they, can push the game amongst the general population and kick-start the growth of the grass-roots game, face to face.

For the many reasons already stated, the RFL (and the pro-clubs) just can't do it.

If one man, can get an international Jamaican team to the World Cup, from a standing start, if a handful of enthusiasts can overcome government sponsored prejudice to get Greece to the World Cup, if a few newcomers can get the game played in a clutch of African countries, it's obvious to me, that RL enthusiasts in this country can do it. (Why not?)

Add in to the calculation that we already have thousands and thousands of them here at home.

If only they would first acknowledge that ''we'' can't do it without them and then accept the responsibility to try, instead of being on strike.

If I were the RFL, I would attempt to re-constitute BARLA and plead with them to become the games Development arm.

It might help if they first apologised for usurping BARLA's governing body status, in the first place.

Edited November 25, 2023 by fighting irish

[M j M]

6 hours ago, gingerjon said:

They seem keener to indulge in bitterness from 30 years ago then notice that 15 years ago it was the RFL who saved them and their ground.

Yes recently they've gone off the rails. Although I agree with them that IMG's spreadsheet plan is madness and dangerous for the game's future.

But Keighley are the standout case to me of how the Super League era allowed clubs and Rugby League towns on the outside looking in to slip away from the sport. 

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

At risk of becoming boring, BARLA is the biggest sleeping giant in the country.

They have had, during their heyday more adherents than Wigan, Saints, Leeds, or either Hull club.

Some very deep wound has been inflicted on BARLA (I think I know what it was) and since then the damage (and resentment) has caused them to shut up shop.

If only they would realise, that only they, can push the game amongst the general population and kick-start the growth of the grass-roots game, face to face.

For the many reasons already stated, the RFL (and the pro-clubs) just can't do it.

If one man, can get an international Jamaican team to the World Cup, from a standing start, if a handful of enthusiasts can overcome government sponsored prejudice to get Greece to the World Cup, if a few newcomers can get the game played in a clutch of African countries, it's obvious to me, that RL enthusiasts in this country can do it. (Why not?)

Add in to the calculation that we already have thousands and thousands of them here at home.

If only they would first acknowledge that ''we'' can't do it without them and then accept the responsibility to try, instead of being on strike.

If I were the RFL, I would attempt to re-constitute BARLA and plead with them to become the games Development arm.

It might help if they first apologised for usurping BARLA's governing body status, in the first place.

Thanks for that it did give me a laugh

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

Yes recently they've gone off the rails. Although I agree with them that IMG's spreadsheet plan is madness and dangerous for the game's future.

But Keighley are the standout case to me of how the Super League era allowed clubs and Rugby League towns on the outside looking in to slip away from the sport. 

The game has weakened everywhere but was bankrupt before the start of the Super League era. Without the change coming, there are no guarantees that there would have been a professional league for Keighley to be excluded from.

[north yorks trinity]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Did you know the two seasons - including the filler season - following their exclusion that destroyed everything and led to everyone leaving had higher average crowds than their 1994/5 Division 2 Championship season?

(Source: Rugby League Project)

I regularly went to Keighley from pre Cougarmania to about 2008 and in the year or so after the injustice of 1995 there was a feeling that justice may prevail if they could maintain success on the field so the crowds stayed high fuelled by optimism and anger. It was no surprise that once it was obvious that hope was futile the whole thing started to unravel.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, north yorks trinity said:

I regularly went to Keighley from pre Cougarmania to about 2008 and in the year or so after the injustice of 1995 there was a feeling that justice may prevail if they could maintain success on the field so the crowds stayed high fuelled by optimism and anger. It was no surprise that once it was obvious that hope was futile the whole thing started to unravel.

Genuine Q because I don't know: if they'd won the title in either year would they have been promoted?

[M j M]

23 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The game has weakened everywhere but was bankrupt before the start of the Super League era. Without the change coming, there are no guarantees that there would have been a professional league for Keighley to be excluded from.

Were clubs more or less endebted and reliant on the support of rich owners then or now?

Edit: not that I'm saying the SL switch was the wrong thing to do but the way we did it caused impacts which we are still reckoning with.

Edited November 25, 2023 by M j M

[north yorks trinity]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Genuine Q because I don't know: if they'd won the title in either year would they have been promoted?

Genuine answer: I can't remember!! I have a feeling they lost out for the title to a very impressive Salford side in 1996 but don't know if Salford went up. I have a vague memory that by 1997 things were slipping.

[north yorks trinity]

Quick Wikipaedia search: Keighley were a distant third to Hull Sharks (whatever happened to them?!) and Huddersfield Giants in 97. In 96 they were 6 points behind Salford in 2nd, but when they lost at home to Salford in (??) June it was a possible title decider with a crowd of approaching 7000. It all seemed to go a bit flat after that.

[Dovster]

5 hours ago, Click said:

I just don't understand how people can keep looking at that as the reason they are where they are today.

If cougarmania was that big then you would have thought it could have helped them get into SL later on and stay there. HKR won the 3rd division that year and are now a comfortable SL club, likewise Hull being in the 2nd division also.

 

 

To put the record straight.

I don't like to keep talking about this subject as it does make Keighley fans sound bitter. It was a long time ago and many other clubs have suffered injustices by the RFL at the time and since.

You really need to have lived through it as a Keighley fan to truly understand how disgracefull this decision at the time was. Cougarmania was really that big and it was taken away. Has as been said we will never know what might have been.

Once Kighley realised that they were not wanted in the top league (too close to Bradford) then the finance disappeared and the many of the fans left the sport to football (Bradford City and Burnley were on the up at the time)

This is not relevant to this thread as I would never consider Keighley a sleeping giant but maybe another missed oportunity.

Hope this helps