gingerjon Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 15 hours ago, Dave W said: Money - or the lack of it - is the main driver here. Literally why the work with IMG's main purpose is getting more money into the game. That's the reality of the IMG grading. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 9 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Or even agrees with it. You are perfectly entitled to your view, expressed frequently and regularly. I've now answered your question in full, as you requested . Your turn now: do you want the Reimagining Rugby League project to succeed? (For clarity, not "do you think it will succeed " but " do you want it to succeed" ) 1. Yes? 2. No? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 54 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Literally why the work with IMG's main purpose is getting more money into the game. That's the reality of the IMG grading. I hope it does flow down throughout the game rather than just the top teams benefitting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 20 minutes ago, JohnM said: You are perfectly entitled to your view, expressed frequently and regularly. I've now answered your question in full, as you requested . Your turn now: do you want the Reimagining Rugby League project to succeed? (For clarity, not "do you think it will succeed " but " do you want it to succeed" ) 1. Yes? 2. No? Firstly, no I don't think you have answered my question in full, what you express is obvious it is like asking someone how does an automatic car work and the answer comes back automatically. Secondly I have expressed my opinion on the Reimagining Rugby League project, but because you are struggling to understand it I will reiterate :- It is not a simple monosyllabic yes or no answer, there are other factors to consider, If the project results in the game being harmed below SL then NO I don't want it to succeed in its present format. Let me reverse that question to you, If this IMG project in its present form results in clubs below SL struggling and maybe closing down, do you want it to succeed. 1. Yes 2. No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 19 minutes ago, Dave W said: I hope it does flow down throughout the game rather than just the top teams benefitting. Exactly. We all hope it works. 1 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 48 minutes ago, JohnM said: You are perfectly entitled to your view, expressed frequently and regularly. I've now answered your question in full, as you requested . Your turn now: do you want the Reimagining Rugby League project to succeed? (For clarity, not "do you think it will succeed " but " do you want it to succeed" ) 1. Yes? 2. No? That's the second post from you containing an implied insult. You are now on ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 minute ago, JohnM said: That's the second post from you containing an implied insult. You are now on ignore. Are you arguing with yourself John? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 27 minutes ago, Dave W said: I hope it does flow down throughout the game rather than just the top teams benefitting. When we had better TV deals, the lower leagues got more money iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, Dave T said: When we had better TV deals, the lower leagues got more money iirc. We did indeed and I'm struggling to see how the shortfall is going to be made up. It's sink or swim for a lot of clubs at the moment. Some are trying to improve their income streams but I fear some will fold before central funding improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 4 hours ago, Dave T said: Are you arguing with yourself John? It happens. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worzel Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Let me reverse that question to you, If this IMG project in its present form results in clubs below SL struggling and maybe closing down, do you want it to succeed. 1. Yes 2. No Yes. If the project strengthens the elite comp, enabling us to grow audiences and revenues, then yes I’m fine with some clubs below SL struggling and closing down. I’d rather they didn’t, but unless we secure the elite comp we’re all ultimately doomed anyway so they’d end up closing down regardless. The sport should come before preserving a few clubs. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, Worzel said: Yes. If the project strengthens the elite comp, enabling us to grow audiences and revenues, then yes I’m fine with some clubs below SL struggling and closing down. I’d rather they didn’t, but unless we secure the elite comp we’re all ultimately doomed anyway so they’d end up closing down regardless. The sport should come before preserving a few clubs. Thanks for your honesty Worzel, but I see you have an overrider - highlighted. Do you think the RFL will allow it to happen, aren't all clubs no matter of what status they occupy equal members of the same body, albeit I know there was a cockeyed voting system in the IMG ballot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worzel Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Thanks for your honesty Worzel, but I see you have an overrider - highlighted. Do you think the RFL will allow it to happen, aren't all clubs no matter of what status they occupy equal members of the same body, albeit I know there was a cockeyed voting system in the IMG ballot. No that wasn't a new overider, it was contained in your initial question: "If this IMG project in its present form results in clubs below SL struggling and maybe closing down, do you want it to succeed?" The success I talked about was assumed in your question, I just restated it back. The project exists to save and grow the elite comp. Those are its terms for success. Only by saving and growing the revenue-generating elite comp does rugby league at any level have a chance for long-term survival. So if some lower league clubs fail in the transition, they would have failed anyway - whether in the same timeframe, or later. I would rather we have a stronger Super League in 5 years time, with Keighley and Swinton (or whoever) having folded, than a weaker Super League where many more clubs will be in a far worse position than they are today. The sport as a whole comes first, before any individual club. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 On 17/04/2024 at 10:52, Dave T said: I don't have an issue with Hull FC being graded as an A club. They are absolutely the kind of club that we should have in SL. I think it's one for their fans and board to be annoyed about that they don't play great rugby! The owner of Hull FC has stated the sport is unsustainable,bar a couple of clubs with wealthy benefactors. It seems Hull FC are still repaying the Covid loan. They do not own their stadium and match days means the external takings go to either/both soccer club/Council. The attendances are decreasing yet despite the off - field situation they are granted an A grading. Struggling to find how the sport improves if the 'big ' clubs are in decline. No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said: The owner of Hull FC has stated the sport is unsustainable,bar a couple of clubs with wealthy benefactors. It seems Hull FC are still repaying the Covid loan. They do not own their stadium and match days means the external takings go to either/both soccer club/Council. The attendances are decreasing yet despite the off - field situation they are granted an A grading. Struggling to find how the sport improves if the 'big ' clubs are in decline. He seems a bit more upbeat than you tbh. https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/adam-pearson-provides-hull-fc-9046149?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 6 minutes ago, Dave T said: He seems a bit more upbeat than you tbh. https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/adam-pearson-provides-hull-fc-9046149?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target That article is from January. I wonder how upbeat he is now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 2 hours ago, Worzel said: No that wasn't a new overider, it was contained in your initial question: "If this IMG project in its present form results in clubs below SL struggling and maybe closing down, do you want it to succeed?" The success I talked about was assumed in your question, I just restated it back. The project exists to save and grow the elite comp. Those are its terms for success. Only by saving and growing the revenue-generating elite comp does rugby league at any level have a chance for long-term survival. So if some lower league clubs fail in the transition, they would have failed anyway - whether in the same timeframe, or later. I would rather we have a stronger Super League in 5 years time, with Keighley and Swinton (or whoever) having folded, than a weaker Super League where many more clubs will be in a far worse position than they are today. The sport as a whole comes first, before any individual club. Every club lost I one less club for players to start and end their careers 1 sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 10 hours ago, Dave T said: When we had better TV deals, the lower leagues got more money iirc. To be fair it was combined with much lower running costs to enable clubs to be sustainable, there's a huge amount if oncosts for sports clubs now that didn't exist a few decades ago, or weren't as costly at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 8 minutes ago, dkw said: To be fair it was combined with much lower running costs to enable clubs to be sustainable, there's a huge amount if oncosts for sports clubs now that didn't exist a few decades ago, or weren't as costly at best. Aye, I'm simply making the point that if more money comes in from the top tv deals, more is paid to the lower divisions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 On 17/04/2024 at 15:38, Dave W said: Everything listed depends on money. Money - or the lack of it - is the main driver here. I think that is why fandom forms a big part of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 2 minutes ago, Dave T said: Aye, I'm simply making the point that if more money comes in from the top tv deals, more is paid to the lower divisions. Yeah I get that, and your obviously right. But I do also think there was more "spare" cash to divvy up then as clubs were run on much less costs. Either way lower league clubs are going to have to change the way they are run going forward, but it's not impossible to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 On 17/04/2024 at 16:51, JohnM said: Exactly. I'm not sure every poster gets that. In this country I feel it gets overlooked with the “sport is all about results on the field”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 26 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said: In this country I feel it gets overlooked with the “sport is all about results on the field”. I agree. Results on the field are only achieved by the judicious acquiring earning and spending of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 On 18/04/2024 at 17:59, Dave T said: He seems a bit more upbeat than you tbh. https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/adam-pearson-provides-hull-fc-9046149?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target This was the interview - https://www.totalrl.com/owner-adam-pearson-reveals-hull-fcs-real-salary-cap-spend-and-super-league-clubs-losses/ I found this one relevant,as well. For Premier League read IMG https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6pwiQlXnZYs&pp=ygUMbmlnZWwgY2xvdWdo No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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