Halifax - the forgotten club?

[Tommygilf]

33 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Big enough for BBC Scotland (so by definition, BBC iPlayer) to show several Championship and League 1 games a season.

Thats in BBC Scotland's remit and as a "national" broadcaster is fair enough. Yorkshire TV though?

[Tre Cool]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

I'm sorry but the RFL completely neglects teams outside of SL. You speak of them needing to generate their own income like everyone else but a lot of clubs in SL are being propped up by their central funding, meaning that if those clubs went down they'd almost definitely go bust.

If you want an example of how much the RFL Favours SL clubs, look at this years broadcasting deal compared to last year. SL has managed to get all their games on telly, an aim of the RFL for years, however the Championship have lost their one game per week with no one really fighting their corner.

Nobody wants to pay for televising semi pro rugby, it's equivalent to like tier 6 soccer. The RFL have failed to grow the game to the point there's no money to pass down. They're incompetent but not deliberately neglecting the 2nd tier clubs through anything but necessity to keep the elite level actually pro.

Edited April 29 by Tre Cool

[sam4731]

29 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

Nobody wants to pay for televising semi pro rugby, it's equivalent to like tier 6 soccer. The RFL have failed to grow the game to the point there's no money to pass down. They're incompetent but not deliberately neglecting the 2nd tier clubs through anything but necessity to keep the elite level actually pro.

Go and have a look on the TV Guide. This Saturday, TNT Sports 1, 3:30pm.

OK maybe they don't have any money but why do Castleford get more than Sheffield? Because Castleford are in SL. Why are Castleford in SL? Because they get the money from the RFL.

We're in a position where SL teams are SL teams because they're in SL.

There are teams that are coasting on central funding that don't contribute much which may be better spent by teams outside of SL.

[RigbyLuger]

25 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Go and have a look on the TV Guide. This Saturday, TNT Sports 1, 3:30pm.

Is that the play-off final? They don't show tier 6 football every week.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

Go and have a look on the TV Guide. This Saturday, TNT Sports 1, 3:30pm.

OK maybe they don't have any money but why do Castleford get more than Sheffield? Because Castleford are in SL. Why are Castleford in SL? Because they get the money from the RFL.

We're in a position where SL teams are SL teams because they're in SL.

There are teams that are coasting on central funding that don't contribute much which may be better spent by teams outside of SL.

That is exactly why grading has been introduced and shockingly made Cas break the habit of half a century and made material developments at their stadium.

[Tre Cool]

8 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Go and have a look on the TV Guide. This Saturday, TNT Sports 1, 3:30pm.

OK maybe they don't have any money but why do Castleford get more than Sheffield? Because Castleford are in SL. Why are Castleford in SL? Because they get the money from the RFL.

We're in a position where SL teams are SL teams because they're in SL.

There are teams that are coasting on central funding that don't contribute much which may be better spent by teams outside of SL.

But that's the whole point of the new system!! To stop them coasting. To be fairer to stronger clubs. Which Sheffield are not. Terrible example.

[sam4731]

7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

That is exactly why grading has been introduced and shockingly made Cas break the habit of half a century and made material developments at their stadium.

 

20 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

But that's the whole point of the new system!! To stop them coasting. To be fairer to stronger clubs. Which Sheffield are not. Terrible example.

But the grading system has been suspiciously designed to reward those already at the top. It's almost as if IMG had to get the approval of the clubs (remember, SL clubs have more weighting) and so designed the criteria with that in mind.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, sam4731 said:

 

But the grading system has been suspiciously designed to reward those already at the top. It's almost as if IMG had to get the approval of the clubs (remember, SL clubs have more weighting) and so designed the criteria with that in mind.

There were majorities in favour at all levels.

[bamfordsbeans]

The decline of Halifax in the last 20 years or so is mirrored by the neighbouring clubs that make up the Pennine spine.

This area was very much at the forefront in the early days of the code and throughout the Twentieth Century the teams were always there or thereabouts and backed up by relatively large crowds.

Halifax,Bradford,Huddersfield (moderate recent success on but not off the field),Oldham (hopes of a revival-but from a very low base) and Rochdale Hornets form an area of the game that has seen better days.

This is in sharp contrast to the current strongholds of the game in Lancashire,Leeds/Wakefield and Humberside.

[Fax Knight]

You’ve also got a very large Pakistani heritage population who don’t follow either code of rugby. My son played League (at Siddal) and Union for 10 years in the town. I can count on one hand the number of Pakistani heritage lads he played with or against. He went to Crossley Heath and they now have trouble raising a Union team. A number of private schools who used to play them now don’t as they are too weak. The same demographics occur in many traditional League towns. If you fail to engage with a massive part of your local population, it’s hardly surprising your crowds plummet. Ikram Butt was a long time ago. He did an amazing job, but no one continued on from him. 

[The Blues Ox]

42 minutes ago, Fax Knight said:

You’ve also got a very large Pakistani heritage population who don’t follow either code of rugby. My son played League (at Siddal) and Union for 10 years in the town. I can count on one hand the number of Pakistani heritage lads he played with or against. He went to Crossley Heath and they now have trouble raising a Union team. A number of private schools who used to play them now don’t as they are too weak. The same demographics occur in many traditional League towns. If you fail to engage with a massive part of your local population, it’s hardly surprising your crowds plummet. Ikram Butt was a long time ago. He did an amazing job, but no one continued on from him. 

That is an excellent point and just checking Calderdale has a population that is around 80% white English so in that sense its still a pretty large majority but as Fax Knight alludes to, a lot of the schools that have had strong rugby teams over the past few decades have seen a large rise in the number of Asian children attending those schools and it certainly has had a knock on effect in the area. Its a whole lot of people in the area that Rugby League has failed to be able to tap in to and from a personal point of view in my 20 odd years or so been involved in community clubs I can only remember playing/coaching with or against 2, maybe 3 Asian players. That in itself is a pretty sad stat.

[Daft old hooker]

18 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

As a Fax fan I am not sure what the club can do at this point to give us a chance of ever been back in SL again. We have just had a new board take over who judging by our squad this season and lack of updates about off the field things, do not have enough money to really give the club a push.

The fact is just like many other teams we would need a big backer to pump a lot of cash in to the club to massively improve the IMG rankings but because of the handicaps that Championship teams face with these, its probably something that has to be done over maybe 5 or more years because of the 3 year averages and to be honest it's going to be hard to find an investor willing to do that. I know if it were me putting a lot of money in then I would want pretty much instant success within a year or two at this level and I think that is another reason we are not really an attractive proposition.

The area itself is the producer of more talent than most, if not all, other areas but Fax have little chance of tapping in to that talent without been in SL themselves. A bit catch 22 with every player who touches a rugby ball from the age of about 14 up at Siddal signed to pro teams, Fax then have to wait until they are released and when money is tight its hard to take a gamble on an unproven player and most drift either back to Siddal or out of the game completley.

This is all before the attendance problems and for me there is not enough money in the town to see attendances rise, I mean even when we were doing well in this league an average of maybe about 2k was all we could achieve and twenty odd quid to watch a pretty average standard of rugby when there is so much more to do in the town makes it difficult. I mean you can make a day of it at Siddal and watch multiple games with the main game not been too far off the standard we are playing at and its easy to see why its a struggle.

That all sounds pretty bleak but I think we are in a bad spot at the moment, the squad needs a full rebuild apart from 3 or 4 players, the IMG finance ranking for the club paints a bleak picture as well and everything to do with the club feels half hearted. 

To be honest Oxy most clubs in the championship are or will be in a similar situation in the next couple of years. Most clubs will need a big backer to move forward particularly with IMG but no one in their right mind would want to put that sort of investment in with little or no chance of success. As a result RL at this level is just going to decay and die and nobody seems bothered.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

There were majorities in favour at all levels.

Which keeps being ignored.

[Sports Prophet]

My take on it is that the sport gets the results it deserves. 

We have seen a poorly managed SL stagnate for a long time now and if the sport isn’t growing, it is declining.

I can only dream of what an improved position the professional game would be in if the game was being delivered to its 15th year of uncompromising and improving minimum standards of licensing. I anticipate we could well have a 14 team SL with a strong core of ambitious Championship clubs working towards a licence upgrade and a promotion to the top division.

Halifax are unfortunately not dissimilar to clubs like Widnes, Sheffield, York, Fev and more who without a significant benefactor have a very poor platform in the Championship to enhance their product offering.

[Tre Cool]

I'm still not sure how the RFL are neglecting Halifax.  What are they doing for other clubs that they aren't for Halifax?  It's not like if there was normal P&R still in place they'd even be benefiting from that. 

[Just Browny]

15 hours ago, north yorks trinity said:

Not sure I understand what you mean by this so would you explain please before I correct you/have a go at you? 

I actually meant to say 'not just Siddal', not quite sure what came over me!

[The Blues Ox]

4 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

I'm still not sure how the RFL are neglecting Halifax.  What are they doing for other clubs that they aren't for Halifax?  It's not like if there was normal P&R still in place they'd even be benefiting from that. 

Well they did protect a certain team from relegation for a number of years and I sometimes wonder if Fax had of been afforded that luxury if things would have turned out different. Obviously we missed out on promotion because of a lack of P & R and some dodgy dealings around franchising. We also ended up ploghing a fortune in to our old ground(and then selling our ground) to try and make improvements so we could stay independant while other teams took some photos of some diggers.

I guess some of that leaves a bitter taste but luck plays such a big part in things in RL because we hop from one system to the next and sometimes it will favor a club and sometimes it will work against a club. Leigh are probably a modern example, for me they are everything we should be trying to promote in the game, strong on the field and also pushing the off field side of things as well but the reality is under the new IMG gradings they could actually be in danger of losing their top flight place. If their rise had of happened a year before then they would be comfortable in SL and with the 3 year averages would have been comfortably in the top 12 for when the IMG ratings came in.

I have no qulams about where we are at the moment though. For the most part I have enjoyed our time in the championship and we have enjoyed days out in finals that the majority of other teams have not seen in decades and its really only recently that I have been losing interest in Fax but that is only because I have more interest in the amateur game so its not like Im losing my love for RL its more just the pro and semi pro game which I think is a mess.

[Phil]

On 29/04/2024 at 12:14, JM2010 said:

Was thinking about a similar (ish) theme regarding where current professional players are from. 
Is there a better pack all from one community club than this at the moment? This is a pack made up from Siddal in Halifax. Imagine if Halifax could tap into their local players if they got back into SL.

Holroyd (Rhinos)

Leeming (Wigan)

Dupree (Wigan)

Nicholson (Warrington)

Gannon (Rhinos)

Smithies (Canberra).

Thats a pretty impressive pack all from the same community club in Halifax

 

Plus Minchella and George King 

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Plus Minchella and George King 

I saw a list on Facebook of Siddal's pro exports, massive really. Growing a real super club there.

[JM2010]

30 minutes ago, Phil said:

Plus Minchella and George King 

Are they both ex Siddal players?

There’s also Holroyd from Warrington

[The Blues Ox]

9 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I saw a list on Facebook of Siddal's pro exports, massive really. Growing a real super club there.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=826819789482121&set=a.455688629928574

Full list there. It will rival any team out there and kids from the area are still all told they have to go to Siddal if they want a chance and you will see kids from out of the area going there too such is the reputation of the club. It is a shame that Fax can't tap in to that but the reality is they didn't have the best relationship even when Fax were in SL.

[Ovenden Grunt]

On 30/04/2024 at 09:11, Daft old hooker said:

To be honest Oxy most clubs in the championship are or will be in a similar situation in the next couple of years. Most clubs will need a big backer to move forward particularly with IMG but no one in their right mind would want to put that sort of investment in with little or no chance of success. As a result RL at this level is just going to decay and die and nobody seems bothered.

There you have it. IMG actively harm the game below SL. That can't be right can it? Or perhaps that is the aim all along. Super League totally out on it's own with any other club, no matter their history or future aims, consigned to the bin or feeder clubs at best.

[Click]

51 minutes ago, Ovenden Grunt said:

There you have it. IMG actively harm the game below SL. That can't be right can it? Or perhaps that is the aim all along. Super League totally out on it's own with any other club, no matter their history or future aims, consigned to the bin or feeder clubs at best.

What is the difference to what he described for the "future" and what is happening now? 

Championship clubs have always needed a money man in order to get promotion, nothing changes.

[RigbyLuger]

30 minutes ago, Click said:

What is the difference to what he described for the "future" and what is happening now? 

Championship clubs have always needed a money man in order to get promotion, nothing changes.

And as Fev have proven, sometimes money isn't enough.

[Ovenden Grunt]

2 hours ago, Click said:

What is the difference to what he described for the "future" and what is happening now? 

Championship clubs have always needed a money man in order to get promotion, nothing changes.

I agree, but my point was that i believe the end game aim for SL/IMG is a totally closed shop with 14 clubs and to hell with everyone else.