GB to replace England?

[corkonian77]

11 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Small in number but there is Tom McKinney and Bob Kelly. Des Foy is very much Irish these days as well, hehe.

Des Foy has lived in Kerry  since the 90s as far as I know.

[StandOffHalf]

11 minutes ago, corkonian77 said:

Des Foy has lived in Kerry  since the 90s as far as I know.

I know, yes. His X-League and involvement in Irish RL make him a guiding light here. Nice fella.

[Barley Mow]

34 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I thought Brian Carney was the first?

Digging into wiki, I can't see any others.

As far as I know the previous Irishmen who played for GB were all Northern Irish (and held British citizenship and identified as British). Foy was born in Lancashire.

Carney (I believe) was the first, to date only, Irish (Republic) citizen and first who didn't identify as British.

[StandOffHalf]

20 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

As far as I know the previous Irishmen who played for GB were all Northern Irish (and held British citizenship and identified as British). Foy was born in Lancashire.

Carney (I believe) was the first, to date only, Irish (Republic) citizen and first who didn't identify as British.

Yes, I believe so. They were still Irish though. I wasn't claiming Foy as Irish-born. I just thought he merited a mention.

[corkonian77]

15 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

As far as I know the previous Irishmen who played for GB were all Northern Irish (and held British citizenship and identified as British). Foy was born in Lancashire.

Carney (I believe) was the first, to date only, Irish (Republic) citizen and first who didn't identify as British.

All persons  born before 1949 in the Republic  of Ireland  are considered  British  Subjects  according  to British  law. 

Jack Daly played for British  Empire 13.

 

[Barley Mow]

1 minute ago, StandOffHalf said:

Yes, I believe so. They were still Irish though. I wasn't claiming Foy as Irish-born. I just thought he merited a mention.

Yes, of course. I wasn't suggesting that they weren't Irish as well as British, just pointing out that they would have been proud to represent Britain and that Carney was a different situation.

Interestingly, in watching the Scotland v Ireland match back on youtube yesterday evening I noticed that the Ireland team had a tricolour attached to the back of their replacements bench, despite them supposed to represent all Ireland.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

They were still Irish though.

[Sports Prophet]

50 minutes ago, George Watt said:

I am solidly with you on the love of the GB brand.  Saw all Ashes series in England from 1952 to 1963( 3 series wins to GB) and all in Aus from 1970 until 2003.( 1 series win to GB in 1970)

Was really looking forward to seeing the Ashes series return to Aus. in 2025 but events have overtaken that possibility.

 

I might be there for a game in London with the old man. Would love it to be at Wembley.

1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said:

And Tri-Nations, Four Nations, series against NZ, Tonga, Samoa, Pacific Championship (if we ever got invited to play in it for a year), etc.....?

Is it just the Ashes we play as GB. If so, why?

Not having a go at you - just trying to understand exactly what you're proposing.

GB have participated in the tri nations previously, maybe even four nations, can’t remember.

But yeah, if the calendar was consistent enough, I would say GB for everything except a WC and then leave England Knights to play other European nations while GB are playing, whilst being under no illusion how small scale those England games would be if the best were playing for GB.

Why? Just a personal preference. I think the brand is stronger and as mentioned before, I think it represents opportunity at the highest levels for non-English Brits and it also brings England back a pegging to try and get some more meaningful matches for the other top tier Euro nations.

Edited October 29 by Sports Prophet

[corkonian77]

4 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Yes, of course. I wasn't suggesting that they weren't Irish as well as British, just pointing out that they would have been proud to represent Britain and that Carney was a different situation.

Interestingly, in watching the Scotland v Ireland match back on youtube yesterday evening I noticed that the Ireland team had a tricolour attached to the back of their replacements bench, despite them supposed to represent all Ireland.

Not helpful. 

The Ifu use the Irish  flag and and the flag of the Irfu.

They should use both Irish  and some type of Ulster red hand flag ( white or or yellow).

[StandOffHalf]

16 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

As far as I know the previous Irishmen who played for GB were all Northern Irish (and held British citizenship and identified as British). Foy was born in Lancashire.

Carney (I believe) was the first, to date only, Irish (Republic) citizen and first who didn't identify as British.

I had always wondered about Bob Kelly's dates and place of birth, as his Wiki entry is very sparse.

It turns out that he was actually born in the town of Tullamore, Co. Offaly and played Gaelic Football. He served in the British Army in India, Egypt and Palestine and took up RL after being demobbed, ending up in Keighley as his sister lived there.

He died in 2003. Here are pieces from the Telegraph and Argus (that conflict slightly in rep details):

Rugby League: Bob Kelly: Death of a legend | Bradford Telegraph and Argus

 Bob Kelly - Rugby Legend | Bradford Telegraph and Argus

He played for GB and for Other Nationalities. So Carney followed in his footsteps.

RIP Bob Kelly

Edited October 30 by StandOffHalf

[StandOffHalf]

22 minutes ago, corkonian77 said:

All persons  born before 1949 in the Republic  of Ireland  are considered  British  Subjects  according  to British  law. 

Jack Daly played for British  Empire 13.

 

What a legend he was. His backflips!

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I had always wondered about Bob Kelly's dates and place of birth, as his Wiki entry is very sparse.

It turns out that he was actually born in the town of Tullamore, Co. Offaly and played Gaelic Football. He served in the British Army in India, Egypt and Palestine and took up RL after being demobbed, ending up in Keighley as his sister lived there.

He died in 2003. Here's a piece from the Telegraph and Argus:

 Bob Kelly - Rugby Legend | Bradford Telegraph and Argus

He played three times for GB, on the winning side all three times. So Carney followed in his footsteps.

RIP Bob Kelly

Someone with the right skills for wiki editing should update his page there with that info.

[RP London]

42 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I might be there for a game in London with the old man. Would love it to be at Wembley.

GB have participated in the tri nations previously, maybe even four nations, can’t remember.

But yeah, if the calendar was consistent enough, I would say GB for everything except a WC and then leave England Knights to play other European nations while GB are playing, whilst being under no illusion how small scale those England games would be if the best were playing for GB.

Why? Just a personal preference. I think the brand is stronger and as mentioned before, I think it represents opportunity at the highest levels for non-English Brits and it also brings England back a pegging to try and get some more meaningful matches for the other top tier Euro nations.

I get really torn on this... 

this is the set up I think would work best BUT GB really isnt that strong a brand, England is as that is what we play most major sports as, if its just a rebadged England it opens us up to ridicule too. The England games underneath have potential as a weaker side would mean closer games but equally it would mean less interest, take them to expansion areas maybe and that would work but its a maybe.... 

at the moment its just so difficult to do, with no real plans to develop the game outside of England, without it looking like a rebranded england and with england 2nds playing the rest.. and that, really, doesnt do anything for developing the game or for not looking just a bit silly.. 

It shows how much we have gone backwards since the mid 90s (though admittedly most of the success of the none enlgish nations was based on players crossing codes).

[Sports Prophet]

20 minutes ago, RP London said:

I get really torn on this... 

this is the set up I think would work best BUT GB really isnt that strong a brand, England is as that is what we play most major sports as, if its just a rebadged England it opens us up to ridicule too. The England games underneath have potential as a weaker side would mean closer games but equally it would mean less interest, take them to expansion areas maybe and that would work but its a maybe.... 

at the moment its just so difficult to do, with no real plans to develop the game outside of England, without it looking like a rebranded england and with england 2nds playing the rest.. and that, really, doesnt do anything for developing the game or for not looking just a bit silly.. 

It shows how much we have gone backwards since the mid 90s (though admittedly most of the success of the none enlgish nations was based on players crossing codes).

I can appreciate your comments and opinion RP. I do disagree with your opinion GB isn’t a strong brand though. It performs very well every four years in the Olympics and RU.

But it is very much a personal preference and maybe influenced by the fact that I would be the opposing supporter rather than the supporter. I wonder if more Aussies agree with me. I certainly think I’m in the minority on this predominantly English forum.

[RP London]

21 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I can appreciate your comments and opinion RP. I do disagree with your opinion GB isn’t a strong brand though. It performs very well every four years in the Olympics and RU.

But it is very much a personal preference and maybe influenced by the fact that I would be the opposing supporter rather than the supporter. I wonder if more Aussies agree with me. I certainly think I’m in the minority on this predominantly English forum.

I don't think the GB brand in RL is that strong in terms of weathering the storm of things that I mention afterwards. RU and the Olympics have good mixes of "nationalities" which means that it doesn't have to contend with the "England re badged" argument that would 100% be thrown at it by the naysayers. 

As I've said previously on this the colours and lions head (which I think are/were good branding) I would just take for England (however, has time now passed on that as well). With no Scots or Welsh in the shirt but with Scotland, wales and England playing underneath it there is also a danger that those you want to "bring into the fold" may say "well GB doesn't represent me because look my team play there that day, so I'm definitely not giving that a second glance". I'm just not sure right now if it could work like it used to and whether it would actually have the exact opposite effect than what that plan would have.. 

As mentioned, I am torn.. I think at present we're best as we are as there isnt a GB spread to be had but I would hope it can one day me necessary.. however, by then Scotland might be independent anyway!

Edited October 29 by RP London

[Damien]

18 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I can appreciate your comments and opinion RP. I do disagree with your opinion GB isn’t a strong brand though. It performs very well every four years in the Olympics and RU.

But it is very much a personal preference and maybe influenced by the fact that I would be the opposing supporter rather than the supporter. I wonder if more Aussies agree with me. I certainly think I’m in the minority on this predominantly English forum.

I think in RU the B&I Lions brand is nothing like the Olympic brand or what people envisage for RL. Its not even GB and I've never seen any sign of GB branding. Its quite different.

[Father Gascoigne]

25 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I can appreciate your comments and opinion RP. I do disagree with your opinion GB isn’t a strong brand though. It performs very well every four years in the Olympics and RU.

But it is very much a personal preference and maybe influenced by the fact that I would be the opposing supporter rather than the supporter. I wonder if more Aussies agree with me. I certainly think I’m in the minority on this predominantly English forum.

I've never personally known anything other than England. Maybe an Australian older than me would feel different about it, but for me the question really comes down to how Englishmen feel about it, as I'm ambivalent towards it. 

I think my feeling on it stems from the fact that NZ is the rival that, in an ideal world, England should have been. 

 

[Gooleboy]

Just a personal opinion, but for an Ashes test series, I would prefer playing under the GB banner as opposed to England. 

[graveyard johnny]

Just now, Gooleboy said:

Just a personal opinion, but for an Ashes test series, I would prefer playing under the GB banner as opposed to England. 

same for me- a break in tradition just wouldnt seem the same

[17 stone giant]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I would say GB for everything except a WC

Not for me. I would be happy to play everything as GB or everything as England, but changing between the two makes no sense to me.

[graveyard johnny]

the Aussie commentators always call GB England and they call England GB so I wouldnt worry about it too much

[Griff]

1 hour ago, graveyard johnny said:

the Aussie commentators always call GB England and they call England GB so I wouldnt worry about it too much

Educational standards in Australia, eh ?

[Griff]

5 hours ago, corkonian77 said:

Not helpful. 

The Ifu use the Irish  flag and and the flag of the Irfu.

They should use both Irish  and some type of Ulster red hand flag ( white or or yellow).

Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan represented twice, then.

[corkonian77]

11 minutes ago, Griff said:

Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan represented twice, then.

It would  up to players to Northern Ireland/ Ulster  to decide  how they would be represented. 

[Griff]

24 minutes ago, corkonian77 said:

It would  up to players to Northern Ireland/ Ulster  to decide  how they would be represented. 

Good for team spirit.

I thought we'd arrived at an Ivory Coast game on Sunday afternoon but they'd just put the flag up back to front.