New Director of Marketing & Communications

[dkw]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

Also, I think they were looking for a professional.

Over a daft thin skinned imbecile prone to drunkenly embarrassing the sport on social media? Thats crazy talk....

[Harry Stottle]

23 minutes ago, dkw said:

Over a daft thin skinned imbecile prone to drunkenly embarrassing the sport on social media? Thats crazy talk....

There's no such thing as bad publicity,  so it's said

[fighting irish]

20 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There's no such thing as bad publicity,  so it's said

Harry, we all know your loyalty to Derek is unquestionable and a lot of these posters relish the opportunity to knock him and by extension have a pop at you. I say it's a great pity some of the other clubs don't have someone so committed and so willing to invest their own time and money testing the market, to glean what might work and what doesn't. So I'm not going to knock him or you, my old chum.

I found myself wishing recently, that London had had him for the last 20 years.

Anyway to the point - I can't understand why the league clubs (all of them) don't pool their knowledge (as you suggest). If Derek's got something that works, would he be willing to share his successful methods with others to help them prosper? Similarly, Leeds, Wigan, et al. Why don't we have a ''self help'' information exchange programme amongst the RFL clubs? We do have pockets of expertise within the organisations member clubs. Why don't we, in a spirit of fraternal bonhomie, make that information available to everyone?

(It's ok Harry, I know the answer but what a short term, small minded, insular sh..thouse, answer it is)

[Chrispmartha]

52 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There's no such thing as bad publicity,  so it's said

It might be said, but it’s also nonsense.

[JohnM]

5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Harry, we all know your loyalty to Derek is unquestionable and a lot of these posters relish the opportunity to knock him and by extension have a pop at you. I say it's a great pity some of the other clubs don't have someone so committed and so willing to invest their own time and money testing the market, to glean what might work and what doesn't. So I'm not going to knock him or you, my old chum.

I found myself wishing recently, that London had had him for the last 20 years.

Anyway to the point - I can't understand why the league clubs (all of them) don't pool their knowledge (as you suggest). If Derek's got something that works, would he be willing to share his successful methods with others to help them prosper? Similarly, Leeds, Wigan, et al. Why don't we have a ''self help'' information exchange programme amongst the RFL clubs? We do have pockets of expertise within the organisations member clubs. Why don't we, in a spirit of fraternal bonhomie, make that information available to everyone?

(It's ok Harry, I know the answer but what a short term, small minded, insular sh..thouse, answer it is)

Why don't we have a ''self help'' information exchange programme amongst the RFL clubs? 

With as much supporting evidence as many other claims on this thread, I expect such an exchange exists.  I think the bigger clubs have management structures headed by CEOs and MDs , with the owners working in a similar way to Premier League club owners. Again, with no supporting evidence, I'd be surprised if Beaumont isn't active in trying to promote his views to other owners, where he might be better off aiming at one level of organogram lower.

[whatmichaelsays]

9 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

I think the Hundred was marketed well even though it's clear it's a dead duck. I believe RL still have room for growth and better marketing and branding will help with that.

What The Hundred has done is get a new type of supporter watching domestic cricket. There are so many more kids, families and casual viewers watching The Hundred than other forms of the game. Whatever the cost and merits of doing that may be, what we can't hide from is that RL is crying out for someone to achieve the same thing - to broaden the audience, to make it much more diverse, to appeal to different tastes and to reduce the reliance the sport has on the same people buying the same product over and over again. 

It wasn't an accident that The Hundred rubbed the cricket purists up the wrong way - it was never meant for them. Cricket has plenty of products that they like already and I think RL often falls into the trap of thinking that, whatever it tries to do, we have to make sure that Derek, the 65-year-old from Cas who has had a season ticket for 50 years, likes it. That makes it hard to appeal to different generations and demographics who might want different things from a sporting event. 

There's no reason why, for example, events like Magic Weekend or the Grand Final could not learn and benefit from some of the experiential and branding tactics that have been applied in The Hundred. 

[fighting irish]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

Why don't we have a ''self help'' information exchange programme amongst the RFL clubs? 

With as much supporting evidence as many other claims on this thread, I expect such an exchange exists.  I think the bigger clubs have management structures headed by CEOs and MDs , with the owners working in a similar way to Premier League club owners. Again, with no supporting evidence, I'd be surprised if Beaumont isn't active in trying to promote his views to other owners, where he might be better off aiming at one level of organogram lower.

Forgive me but I don't really understand what you are saying? Would you care to elaborate? 

[JohnM]

50 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Forgive me but I don't really understand what you are saying? Would you care to elaborate? 

Let me be perfectly clear.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

What The Hundred has done is get a new type of supporter watching domestic cricket. There are so many more kids, families and casual viewers watching The Hundred than other forms of the game. Whatever the cost and merits of doing that may be, what we can't hide from is that RL is crying out for someone to achieve the same thing - to broaden the audience, to make it much more diverse, to appeal to different tastes and to reduce the reliance the sport has on the same people buying the same product over and over again. 

It wasn't an accident that The Hundred rubbed the cricket purists up the wrong way - it was never meant for them. Cricket has plenty of products that they like already and I think RL often falls into the trap of thinking that, whatever it tries to do, we have to make sure that Derek, the 65-year-old from Cas who has had a season ticket for 50 years, likes it. That makes it hard to appeal to different generations and demographics who might want different things from a sporting event. 

There's no reason why, for example, events like Magic Weekend or the Grand Final could not learn and benefit from some of the experiential and branding tactics that have been applied in The Hundred. 

Hi Michael,

I am 'Derek' albeit a little older and obviously not from Cas, I have been in attendance at my club for too many years than I care to remember being there when there has been very very low attendances around the 4 figure mark and mostly the same faces all getting older together, but those times have well and truly changed, the vast majority of fans is not now old codgers like me but young un's 15 to late 20's and creeping upto the mid 30's and many of those being teenagers so plenty newbies, there is also a part of the East stand dedicated to family attendees, attendance has increased since '22 when we had less than 3K average to this season near to 8.5K average, what do you reckon, is that down to the 'event' of live bands at each home game and the fan zones outside the stadium, or is it down to the success of the team on the pitch?

Whatever it is I am not knocking it albeit, I have to get there early these days at least 1/2 an hour before kick off (it used to be 5 mins) to enable me to get a position against a crash barrier to rest my old bones on - still prefer to stand 'behind the sticks' where you see so much more of the tactics and structures than to sit adjacent on the sidelines. 

My interpretation of "the event", I have taken the time in half hour before kick off to observe those fans around and about, I have a good vantage point to do this as I watch from the top of the stand and see all below and a good portion of each of the sideline stands, and in all honesty I do not observe that much attention being payed to the band performing, and moreso when the teams come out onto the pitch to do their warm ups and drills which is usually 20 mins prior to kick off, I can not speak about the fan zones outside the ground I have never attended those.

So my club (or the owner) has done what you say is not happening by just appealing to 'Derek', but from my observations I would say that if the team was not performing or new players were not being introduced to the team as will happen next term to the fans, that would have a much more detrimental effect on the attendances other than if the 'event' of live entertainment was stopped, in fact I believe as say from what I have seen first hand it would be negligible, it is the 'the main event' of a successful team on the pitch that brings the fans in, obviously the owner may just have a different opinion and after all it is his money being spent.

[Chrispmartha]

34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi Michael,

I am 'Derek' albeit a little older and obviously not from Cas, I have been in attendance at my club for too many years than I care to remember being there when there has been very very low attendances around the 4 figure mark and mostly the same faces all getting older together, but those times have well and truly changed, the vast majority of fans is not now old codgers like me but young un's 15 to late 20's and creeping upto the mid 30's and many of those being teenagers so plenty newbies, there is also a part of the East stand dedicated to family attendees, attendance has increased since '22 when we had less than 3K average to this season near to 8.5K average, what do you reckon, is that down to the 'event' of live bands at each home game and the fan zones outside the stadium, or is it down to the success of the team on the pitch?

Whatever it is I am not knocking it albeit, I have to get there early these days at least 1/2 an hour before kick off (it used to be 5 mins) to enable me to get a position against a crash barrier to rest my old bones on - still prefer to stand 'behind the sticks' where you see so much more of the tactics and structures than to sit adjacent on the sidelines. 

My interpretation of "the event", I have taken the time in half hour before kick off to observe those fans around and about, I have a good vantage point to do this as I watch from the top of the stand and see all below and a good portion of each of the sideline stands, and in all honesty I do not observe that much attention being payed to the band performing, and moreso when the teams come out onto the pitch to do their warm ups and drills which is usually 20 mins prior to kick off, I can not speak about the fan zones outside the ground I have never attended those.

So my club (or the owner) has done what you say is not happening by just appealing to 'Derek', but from my observations I would say that if the team was not performing or new players were not being introduced to the team as will happen next term to the fans, that would have a much more detrimental effect on the attendances other than if the 'event' of live entertainment was stopped, in fact I believe as say from what I have seen first hand it would be negligible, it is the 'the main event' of a successful team on the pitch that brings the fans in, obviously the owner may just have a different opinion and after all it is his money being spent.

Harry I actually agree with you up to a point, success in the pitch will obviously be a big driver in crowds however that doesn’t mean the other stuff isn’t important especially if the clubs want to attract new audiences.

personally im not bothered about matchday entertainment but as ive seen at my club it does make a difference in the matchday experience especially for families 

[JM2010]

2 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Harry I actually agree with you up to a point, success in the pitch will obviously be a big driver in crowds however that doesn’t mean the other stuff isn’t important especially if the clubs want to attract new audiences.

personally im not bothered about matchday entertainment but as ive seen at my club it does make a difference in the matchday experience especially for families 

It definitely worked for Bradford Bulls back in their heyday.

I think it’s a combination of a winning team, match day experience and good marketing. If all 3 can be done then, as Hull KR and Leigh have shown, crowds will rise.

 

[whatmichaelsays]

7 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi Michael,

I am 'Derek' albeit a little older and obviously not from Cas, I have been in attendance at my club for too many years than I care to remember being there when there has been very very low attendances around the 4 figure mark and mostly the same faces all getting older together, but those times have well and truly changed, the vast majority of fans is not now old codgers like me but young un's 15 to late 20's and creeping upto the mid 30's and many of those being teenagers so plenty newbies, there is also a part of the East stand dedicated to family attendees, attendance has increased since '22 when we had less than 3K average to this season near to 8.5K average, what do you reckon, is that down to the 'event' of live bands at each home game and the fan zones outside the stadium, or is it down to the success of the team on the pitch?

Whatever it is I am not knocking it albeit, I have to get there early these days at least 1/2 an hour before kick off (it used to be 5 mins) to enable me to get a position against a crash barrier to rest my old bones on - still prefer to stand 'behind the sticks' where you see so much more of the tactics and structures than to sit adjacent on the sidelines. 

My interpretation of "the event", I have taken the time in half hour before kick off to observe those fans around and about, I have a good vantage point to do this as I watch from the top of the stand and see all below and a good portion of each of the sideline stands, and in all honesty I do not observe that much attention being payed to the band performing, and moreso when the teams come out onto the pitch to do their warm ups and drills which is usually 20 mins prior to kick off, I can not speak about the fan zones outside the ground I have never attended those.

So my club (or the owner) has done what you say is not happening by just appealing to 'Derek', but from my observations I would say that if the team was not performing or new players were not being introduced to the team as will happen next term to the fans, that would have a much more detrimental effect on the attendances other than if the 'event' of live entertainment was stopped, in fact I believe as say from what I have seen first hand it would be negligible, it is the 'the main event' of a successful team on the pitch that brings the fans in, obviously the owner may just have a different opinion and after all it is his money being spent.

It's the whole range of things that all add up to the experience that people get when the attend an RL event - it's a fools errand to try and distil these things down to one particular thing. They all play a part in making sure that when people leave an RL ground, they feel like they have had a good day regardless of the performance or result on the pitch. 

I'm also what you might argue is a "legacy fan" - albeit also not from Cas and much younger than Derek - but I also acknowledge that what I want from a Leeds game is different from what my seven-year-old son wants, and that what my wife wants might be different to what both my son and I want. These might be really simple things - things that might seem inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. For my son, it might just be a selfie with Ronnie or a free paper flag to wave. For my wife, it might just be being able to go to the toilet without having to join a queue that's a mile long and being able to get a good view (she's short, so good seating is important). They are small things, but without them, my son might get bored and not want to come back and my wife doesn't enjoy coming either - and that means we've failed to meet their expectations. 

My point about "Derek" isn't to say that people like him don't matter, but to say that if we only ever cater to him, then we end up in the same cycle of selling the same stuff to the same people. We see so many ideas floated on here where people dismiss them as "I don't want to watch that" and, to be honest, that should be a good thing. Derek can keep liking what he likes and it's his choice whether he wants to come along to something created for people who like a different flavour of RL. 

Edited October 17, 2024 by whatmichaelsays

[Hanover XIII]

Its the whole range of things that all add up to the experience that people get when the attend an RL event - it's a fools errand to try and distil these things down to one particular thing. They all play a part in making sure that when people leave an RL ground, they feel like they have had a good day regardless of the performance or result on the pitch. 

 

Completely agree. Seeing a poor film won't stop me going to the cinema again, but seeing a poor film in an uncomfortable seat with no choice of refreshments and an exorbitant ticker price might.

The same goes for the marketing of the match and the club. They need to get several strands right, whether that's online engagement, regular local media coverage, special events, ticket offers, leafleting and posters - they all add to visibility and shouldn't be neglected.

A successful side will always bring people in, but doing the rest will help keep more than you lose in the bad times. 

 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Its the whole range of things that all add up to the experience that people get when the attend an RL event - it's a fools errand to try and distil these things down to one particular thing. They all play a part in making sure that when people leave an RL ground, they feel like they have had a good day regardless of the performance or result on the pitch. 

I'm also what you might argue is a "legacy fan" - albeit also not from Cas and much younger than Derek - but I also acknowledge that what I want from a Leeds game is different from what my seven-year-old son wants, and that what might wife wants might be different to what both my son and I want. These might be really simple things - things that might seem inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. For my son, it might just be a selfie with Ronnie or a free paper flag to wave. For my wife, it might just be being able to go to the toilet without having to join a queue that's a mile long and being able to see (she's short, so good seating is important). They are small things, but without them, my son might get bored and not want to come back and my wife doesn't enjoy coming either - and that means we've failed to meet their expectations. 

My point about "Derek" isn't to say that people like him don't matter, but to say that if we only ever cater to him, then we end up in the same cycle of selling the same stuff to the same people. We see so many ideas floated on here where people dismiss them as "I don't want to watch that" and, to be honest, that should be a good thing. Derek can keep liking what he likes and it's his choice whether he wants to come along to something created for people who like a different flavour of RL. 

I've used cricket as an example before. Obviously, they don't get it right every time but, when it works, they are marketing the same game of cricket to hospitality, premium seats, family zones, alcohol free zones, party zones, and people who just really like cricket.

[DI Keith Fowler]

16 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I've used cricket as an example before. Obviously, they don't get it right every time but, when it works, they are marketing the same game of cricket to hospitality, premium seats, family zones, alcohol free zones, party zones, and people who just really like cricket.

Exactly, give people different offerings to cater to their wants. The game is always at the centre but the stuff around it is all flexible and up for grabs. 

I can't remember whether it was on here or in a letter in the League Express, but I recall someone complaining in reaction to a fanzone being put on in some game that they prefer to get to the game half an hour before kick off, sit in the same seat and have a cup of tea. To which the answer is, you can still do that! You don't have to go no one is making you. 

[Dave W]

I hope it isn't this:

"The Forty: A brand new franchise RL model with city based teams: Manchester/Leeds/Newcastle/Cardiff/London/Toulouse playing a Nine-a-side tournament: Two halves of 20 minutes/two matches per night in July"

[JM2010]

3 hours ago, Dave W said:

I hope it isn't this:

"The Forty: A brand new franchise RL model with city based teams: Manchester/Leeds/Newcastle/Cardiff/London/Toulouse playing a Nine-a-side tournament: Two halves of 20 minutes/two matches per night in July"

Where did you get that from or is it your creation?

[Dave W]

17 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

Where did you get that from or is it your creation?

I made it up but it's scarily plausible. 

[JM2010]

24 minutes ago, Dave W said:

I made it up but it's scarily plausible. 

I quite liked it

[Gav Wilson]

20 hours ago, Dave W said:

I hope it isn't this:

"The Forty: A brand new franchise RL model with city based teams: Manchester/Leeds/Newcastle/Cardiff/London/Toulouse playing a Nine-a-side tournament: Two halves of 20 minutes/two matches per night in July"

I don't hate it...

[The Future is League]

On 16/10/2024 at 07:46, LeeF said:

Is this an external appointment?

 

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/63197/rugby-league-commercial-make-senior-appointment

 

He will need to get some clubs doing more than they do now to get more people through the turnstyles.