Football

[HawkMan]

4 EPL games this afternoon,  all in London. West Ham in  east London,  Crystal Palace in the south, Arsenal,  north, and Chelsea in the west. A first perhaps.

[Father Gascoigne]

I thought Palmer looked quite decent at City, and recall thinking at the time that he could be a decent replacement for Mahrez. Didn't quite expect him to become potential best-player-in-the-world material just 18 months later. 

Another dominant performance against Newcastle, with some incredible defense-splitting passes, he's one of the handful of players in world football worth tuning in to watch.

For a club that has gotten so much right in terms of recruitment for so long, Palmer is the first major blunder by City I can recall. Has all the hallmarks of Chelsea selling De Bruyne and Salah. 

 

[HawkMan]

Ten Hag on West Ham defeat.

 

Edited October 28 by HawkMan

[Gerrumonside ref]

Surprised he lasted so long

[Father Gascoigne]

Thomas Frank is the right man for the job. Fits in with INEOS' style of running a club and isn't a chore to listen to in conferences. Van Nistelrooy would be another mistake, even on an interim basis. 

Edited October 28 by Father Gascoigne

[tonyXIII]

I'm always sad to see anyone get the sack. However, I'm gutted with ETH getting the sack. He was doing such a good job at United. Anyway, doubtless they will find someone to continue his good work.

(For anyone who didn't know, I'm a City fan.)

[OriginalMrC]

United back on the 3 year cycle of new manager, spending big, giving them time to improve and sacking them after 2 and a bit years. Ineos and their arrogant CEO are going to start to realise it's not as easy as they think it is to bring success to a sinking ship. All while they continue to dismantle everything.

[Irish Saint]

I'm no lover of Man United but have been told by the Chairman of a local supporters club that Ineos as a cost costing exercise (so much for the richest club in the world) have been removing backroom staff who were United to the core. Strangely,  those critics of the Glaziers looking at you Mr.Neville have remained silence on this.  

[OriginalMrC]

4 hours ago, Irish Saint said:

I'm no lover of Man United but have been told by the Chairman of a local supporters club that Ineos as a cost costing exercise (so much for the richest club in the world) have been removing backroom staff who were United to the core. Strangely,  those critics of the Glaziers looking at you Mr.Neville have remained silence on this.  

They are cutting their workforce by a quarter. Considering they have wasted over a billion quid on average players it's really a joke. INEOS aren't in for the love for the club, just another snout in the trough. Not that I have much sympathy for their demise!

Edited October 28 by OriginalMrC

[Red Willow]

5 hours ago, Irish Saint said:

I'm no lover of Man United but have been told by the Chairman of a local supporters club that Ineos as a cost costing exercise (so much for the richest club in the world) have been removing backroom staff who were United to the core. Strangely,  those critics of the Glaziers looking at you Mr.Neville have remained silence on this.  

Paying Alex Ferguson 2 million plus per year was excessive and he wonders why he was let go.

[HawkMan]

A sad day,no more Darren Farley and his Ten Hag gold standard mimicry.

 

[gingerjon]

6 hours ago, Irish Saint said:

I'm no lover of Man United but have been told by the Chairman of a local supporters club that Ineos as a cost costing exercise (so much for the richest club in the world) have been removing backroom staff who were United to the core. Strangely,  those critics of the Glaziers looking at you Mr.Neville have remained silence on this.  

I think it's fairly common knowledge that Ineos - basically that weirdo Brexit chap and his order following minions - have gone fully barking. Cutting costs on things that make no difference (i.e. sacking staff for no reason) and instituting work practices for staff that will turn off the kind of people they need to recruit. So many egos and so little clue.

[Copa]

Hilarious!

Indonesia vs Australia stupidity

[Father Gascoigne]

9 hours ago, Red Willow said:

Paying Alex Ferguson 2 million plus per year was excessive and he wonders why he was let go.

You'd get that amount managing a decent club today. It's an outrageous amount for an ambassadorial role. 

INEOS is bringing MUFC in line with modern clubs with many of the things they've done, but the club can't do anything without being criticised for it, reflective of its stature. 

No sane person supports cutbacks, but it's a reality of business, and MUFC still employs far more people than the likes of Arsenal or MCFC despite those cuts. When Arsenal repurposed its scouting network to bring it in line with modern standards by paring it down, there wasn't as much criticism. It helped that Arsenal was doing well. 

Combine an underperforming (and very popular) club with cost-cutting and job losses and you have a potent recipe for indignancy. 

[graveyard johnny]

Ten Hag pay off reported to be 15 million quid - not bad work if u can get it

[Gerrumonside ref]

17 hours ago, Irish Saint said:

I'm no lover of Man United but have been told by the Chairman of a local supporters club that Ineos as a cost costing exercise (so much for the richest club in the world) have been removing backroom staff who were United to the core. Strangely,  those critics of the Glaziers looking at you Mr.Neville have remained silence on this.  

I live locally, no fan of the club, but know for a fact they are also cutting back their elite pathway for youth players, this includes whole teams of their most promising youngsters that would normally feed into their academy.

This would have been unthinkable in the past and would seem to go against the longstanding culture of the club to promote youth - one of the more shortsighted aspects of the cost cutting strategy.

And these promising youngsters are already being offered the chance to join the pathway of Manchester City FC who have already swept into traditional MUFC recruitment areas previously.

[Father Gascoigne]

1 minute ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I live locally, no fan of the club, but know for a fact they are also cutting back their elite pathway for youth players, this includes whole teams of their most promising youngsters that would normally feed into their academy.

This would have been unthinkable in the past and would seem to go against the longstanding culture of the club to promote youth - one of the more shortsighted aspects of the cost cutting strategy.

And these promising youngsters are already being offered the chance to join the pathway of Manchester City FC who have already swept into traditional MUFC recruitment areas previously.

Most of the big clubs have two or so homegrown players that have broken through the ranks to establish themselves as first-team players. 

If the foundation of your club is the academy in this day and age, you won't get very far. You'd be lucky to find a first-team player once in a decade. 

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, Father Gascoigne said:

Most of the big clubs have two or so homegrown players that have broken through the ranks to establish themselves as first-team players. 

If the foundation of your club is the academy in this day and age, you won't get very far. You'd be lucky to find a first-team player once in a decade. 

 

Ah right so why is currently the top club in the country still committing more to pathways for local Manchester youngsters then?

Are they behind the curve on this or are they onto something?

Edited October 29 by Gerrumonside ref

[Father Gascoigne]

26 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Ah right so why is currently the top club in the country still committing more to pathways for local Manchester youngsters then?

Are they behind the curve on this or are they onto something?

There's nothing wrong with what MCFC are doing. I'm questioning whether beating MUFC with a stick over it is fair considering how most modern clubs operate. Academies haven't been backbones of clubs for decades. Most clubs, including City, end up raiding other clubs' best 15/16-year-olds. 

Which locals have gone on to become first-teamers at City in 15 years of ADUG ownership? Foden. Lewis. And I'll give them Palmer, despite selling him. United have Mainoo, Rashford, and Evans running around today, and would have had Greenwood too. 

The Class of 95--which in fairness the club makes too much of to its detriment--seems to have warped a lot of people's minds as to what a successful academy looks like. If you unearth one gem in a decade, you're overperforming. That's the standard. 

If you just want clubs to give more pathways for locals, that's fair enough. If it's a criticism due to a belief that academies make a material difference to a modern football club, I'd say that's unfair. They do allow successful clubs like City to sell players for a decent chunk, which counts as pure profit, so as a business model it makes sense. But if we just focus on pathways that should feed into the first team, academies at top clubs produce very little fruit. 

Edited October 29 by Father Gascoigne

[OriginalMrC]

4 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

Ten Hag pay off reported to be 15 million quid - not bad work if u can get it

They gave him a contract extension in the summer too he probably thought he was going to be sacked in the summer but no they offered him even more money!

[OriginalMrC]

6 hours ago, Father Gascoigne said:

You'd get that amount managing a decent club today. It's an outrageous amount for an ambassadorial role. 

INEOS is bringing MUFC in line with modern clubs with many of the things they've done, but the club can't do anything without being criticised for it, reflective of its stature. 

No sane person supports cutbacks, but it's a reality of business, and MUFC still employs far more people than the likes of Arsenal or MCFC despite those cuts. When Arsenal repurposed its scouting network to bring it in line with modern standards by paring it down, there wasn't as much criticism. It helped that Arsenal was doing well. 

Combine an underperforming (and very popular) club with cost-cutting and job losses and you have a potent recipe for indignancy. 

You are Jim Radcliffe and I claim my £5 

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 hours ago, Father Gascoigne said:

There's nothing wrong with what MCFC are doing. I'm questioning whether beating MUFC with a stick over it is fair considering how most modern clubs operate. Academies haven't been backbones of clubs for decades. Most clubs, including City, end up raiding other clubs' best 15/16-year-olds. 

Which locals have gone on to become first-teamers at City in 15 years of ADUG ownership? Foden. Lewis. And I'll give them Palmer, despite selling him. United have Mainoo, Rashford, and Evans running around today, and would have had Greenwood too. 

The Class of 95--which in fairness the club makes too much of to its detriment--seems to have warped a lot of people's minds as to what a successful academy looks like. If you unearth one gem in a decade, you're overperforming. That's the standard. 

If you just want clubs to give more pathways for locals, that's fair enough. If it's a criticism due to a belief that academies make a material difference to a modern football club, I'd say that's unfair. They do allow successful clubs like City to sell players for a decent chunk, which counts as pure profit, so as a business model it makes sense. But if we just focus on pathways that should feed into the first team, academies at top clubs produce very little fruit. 

You can do both, not sure why you’re defending United from cutting their elite pathway programme and handing Man City the local talent.

Just seems another step in United’s long decline as the senior club in Manchester.

 

[Father Gascoigne]

1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

You can do both, not sure why you’re defending United from cutting their elite pathway programme and handing Man City the local talent.

Just seems another step in United’s long decline as the senior club in Manchester.

 

It could be painted that way, but prioritising things that are easier to rectify would arrest the decline quicker, such as not allowing a manager to spend 100m on a pet project that was mediocre even in Holland.

These things aren't mutually exclusive, though, so you raise a fair point. My guess is that these clubs already know how rarely academy products work out, and that raiding other clubs' best prospects in the 15-18-year-old bracket, as they did recently with Obi-Martin, is the way forward. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

7 minutes ago, Father Gascoigne said:

It could be painted that way, but prioritising things that are easier to rectify would arrest the decline quicker, such as not allowing a manager to spend 100m on a pet project that was mediocre even in Holland.

These things aren't mutually exclusive, though, so you raise a fair point. My guess is that these clubs already know how rarely academy products work out, and that raiding other clubs' best prospects in the 15-18-year-old bracket, as they did recently with Obi-Martin, is the way forward. 

Fair enough and it will take a few years before this is settled either way in terms of strategy ‘rights or wrongs’ on local youth development.

[gingerjon]

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