14 Nov: 3rd Test - England v New Zealand (Wigan, KO 1pm) Match Thread

[Farmduck]

Once again, Mike Cooper's numbers show how much he has improved at St George.

[RSN]

Interesting stats there.

27 metres at international level for Farrell just isn't good enough. Basically a forward missing going forward.

The spread of number of passes is a bit interesting. New Zealand had 13 players make 5 or more passes compared to England's 6. Shows England are well drilled but a little too conservative IMO.

Didn't Jon Bateman make a clean break in the game also?

The amount of metres the back 3 in both sides shows how vital ball returns are at international level.

[Harrigan]

Watkins also made 3 breaks where he turned Kahu inside out. They weren't clean breaks though as the line got back to cover. I'm assuming the same will have happened with the Bateman one which I can't remember.

[wackojacko]

Bateman got a long way with his break, 25m or so IIRC.

[tonyXIII]

...

27 metres at international level for Farrell just isn't good enough. Basically a forward missing going forward.

...

 

Taken as a simple figure, yes, 27 metres is a poor haul at international level. However, he only had 4 carries, so that makes about 7 metres per carry. Check out the other figures. Whitehead - about 7 metres per carry. Roby - about 7 metres per carry. Even Graham - about 6 metres per carry. That he only had 4 carries suggests that Farrell wasn't there for his "go forward", but was there for some other reason. I haven't worked out what, yet. I'll leave that to someone who can be bothered.

[Ant]

It's cos he plays for Wigan

[Exiled Wiganer]

Maybe 37 zero is a mitigating factor.

[Exiled Wiganer]

McGillvarys positioning was universally because of the structure - if he'd stayed on his line then there'd be a gap a mile wide between him and Watkins (who is also poor positinally in defence)

We had a very narrow line and when the inside defenders couldnt shut the play down (or mostly some fluke plays and passes) then there was acres of space out wide

The scramble forced the kiwis to put in an extra pass that allowed cover to come over or forced an error

Except when they scored tries.

[Ant]

So what was the problem in the first two tests?

[Exiled Wiganer]

We started slowly in the first, there was only one try scored in the second test, so the defensice systems were more effective once we got going.

[shaun mc]

Farrell also had only 22 metres in Test 2

Need another 2nd rower to go with Whitehead and Ferres

[Spidey]

Farrell also had only 22 metres in Test 2

Need another 2nd rower to go with Whitehead and Ferres

Maybe it wasn't his job. I remember in one game a graphic came up showing he was the top tackler at one point

[Guest]

Maybe it wasn't his job. I remember in one game a graphic came up showing he was the top tackler at one point

 

In game 3 he had 37 tackles and no misses. He was one tackle behind Graham who was our top tackler. Game 2 he made 37 tackles and had only 1 miss. Not bad for a player who is too small and won't be able to handle the big Kiwi's.

[Spidey]

In game 3 he had 37 tackles and no misses. He was one tackle behind Graham who was our top tackler. Game 2 he made 37 tackles and had only 1 miss. Not bad for a player who is too small and won't be able to handle the big Kiwi's.

Thanks. He definitely put in a shift in the games he played. Maybe not in metres but certainly in defence.

[Guest]

Farrell also had only 22 metres in Test 2

Need another 2nd rower to go with Whitehead and Ferres

 

Whitehead only had 33 metres in game 2, plus he made less tackles and missed far more, we better find someone else.

[RSN]

Whitehead only had 33 metres in game 2, plus he made less tackles and missed far more, we better find someone else.

I think you're being way over protective of your own player.

Farrell is fairly solid but he isn't international class. He tackles well and runs half decent lines but that's about it.

He never looks like breaking a tackle. He's no threat going forward whatsoever. Whitehead broke a tackle and did an excellent fend on Adam Blair to score the decisive series winning try. Farrell doesn't have the ability to do that at this level.

Bateman should be starting ahead of Farrell every day of the week.

[Guest]

I think you're being way over protective of your own player.

Farrell is fairly solid but he isn't international class. He tackles well and runs half decent lines but that's about it.

He never looks like breaking a tackle. He's no threat going forward whatsoever. Whitehead broke a tackle and did an excellent fend on Adam Blair to score the decisive series winning try. Farrell doesn't have the ability to do that at this level.

Bateman should be starting ahead of Farrell every day of the week.

I think you may have missed the point of that comment. Either way, Whitehead was no where near as effective as Farrell in game 2 but he doesn't get the stick Farrell does, who pulled off a fantastic try saver in game 1 or 2.

[RSN]

I think you may have missed the point of that comment. Either way, Whitehead was no where near as effective as Farrell in game 2 but he doesn't get the stick Farrell does, who pulled off a fantastic try saver in game 1 or 2.

Whitehead clearly has the attributes to succeed at international but Farrell doesn't. That's why Farrell gets more stick.

[Guest]

Whitehead clearly has the attributes to succeed at international but Farrell doesn't. That's why Farrell gets more stick.

But the point is Farrell did succeed in all 3 matches and even outplayed other players. People just can't see past his size. For the record I would have Whitehead starting every match, just find it odd people don't pick out his flaws because he is bigger.

[Davo5]

Would hate to see the witch hunts if we had got beat on Saturday.

[GeordieSaint]

In game 3 he had 37 tackles and no misses. He was one tackle behind Graham who was our top tackler. Game 2 he made 37 tackles and had only 1 miss. Not bad for a player who is too small and won't be able to handle the big Kiwi's.

Stats can be misleading. How many of those tackles did Farrell make and put the opposition player on his back? How many did the attacker dominate Farrell and land on their front speeding up the play the ball? I genuinely don't know the answer.

[Futtocks]

  Farrell

Stats can be misleading. How many of those tackles did Farrell make and put the opposition player on his back? How many did the attacker dominate Farrell and land on their front speeding up the play the ball? I genuinely don't know the answer.

I've said it before, but his tackling was one of England's best when it came to preventing offloads. Which may be why most of the Kiwis' most effective attacks went down the other side.

 

Farrell may not have always dominated the tackle, but he was quick to grab the ball-holding arm and it usually ended up with a PTB instead of a continuation of the Kiwi attack and a need for England to make more tackles than necessary. That's a valuable thing to do for your team against that sort of opposition.