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Brexit - the negative thread

Bearman

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Bob8

Bob8

Posted
Posted

This Prime Minister seems to have grasped the point "Brexit means Brexit"

As for harming the country, who knows? Plenty of people are saying we will be ok on our own.

Fortunately or unfortunately the die is cast.

If we were to decide it wasn't the right thing to do and we went cap in hand to our "friends" in Europe how you think we would be treated in future negotiations? Would they say "welcome back" or would they play hard ball as they know we would be in a very weak position?

Brexit means Brexit is meaningless.

 

There is a strange dynamic now.  The EU would want to punish the UK as much as possible pour encourager les autres.  However, (and slightly ironically) it is the national Governments that have all the power.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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ckn

ckn

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Posted

Brexit means Brexit is meaningless.

There is a strange dynamic now. The EU would want to punish the UK as much as possible pour encourager les autres. However, (and slightly ironically) it is the national Governments that have all the power.

The countries with the money and a jealous eye on our core service industries, such as France and Germany, will be the most likely to act punitively behind closed doors while the Eastern European countries are most likely to be supportive.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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JohnM

JohnM

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Totally unnecessary?

Don't you read the papers? There was a referendum in June and the outcome after weeks of discussions was that by a fairly narrow majority (but a majority nonetheless) of eligible voters CHOSE to leave the EU.

You need to come to terms with it.

IIRC, Griff has previously stated that although he disagrees with the result, he does respect it.

IIRC and corectify me if I am wrong, it was Gingerjon who supported trying to make sure that that we did not leave.

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Griff9of13

Griff9of13

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Nothing is strictly inaccurate, but it does miss the point. On this issue, the Government does not have credibility to halt 'Brexit'. The caveat is that "brexit" is loosely defined, but that referendum result means that democratic credibility is to leave.

Admittedly I was being somewhat mischievously pedantic in suggesting that the government could abandon brexit (though the fact remains that the referendum was actually advisory). I do agree however that the we could end up with a brexit that barley distinguishable from the full EU membership we now enjoy. In which case who I'm sure all those voted leave wouldn't dare moan about the outcome would they; they'd heed their own advice and shut up and get on with it. Wouldn't they?

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Bob8

Bob8

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Admittedly I was being somewhat mischievously pedantic in suggesting that the government could abandon brexit (though the fact remains that the referendum was actually advisory). I do agree however that the we could end up with a brexit that barley distinguishable from the full EU membership we now enjoy. In which case who I'm sure all those voted leave wouldn't dare moan about the outcome would they; they'd heed their own advice and shut up and get on with it. Wouldn't they?

That was my previous guess some time back.  That said, the point of the referendum was to put the issue to bed for the Tory party and the best way of doing that would be a hard Brexit.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Griff9of13

Griff9of13

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That was my previous guess some time back. That said, the point of the referendum was to put the issue to bed for the Tory party and the best way of doing that would be a hard Brexit.

Indeed. Party before country; nothing new from the Tories there then. :dry:

If it does go all mammaries up they won't be the ones to suffer, it will be those at the poorer end of society. As usual.

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Bob8

Bob8

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Indeed. Party before country; nothing new from the Tories there then. :dry:

If it does go all mammaries up they won't be the ones to suffer, it will be those at the poorer end of society. As usual.

TBF, this is me being cynical.  I could be wrong.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Griff9of13

Griff9of13

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Would this be the same German car industry that is supposed to be falling over themselves post brexit to do favourable deals with the UK? Hard Brexit will be 'mission impossible' for UK and EU due to 'severe side effects' on both, warns German car chief

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Bob8

Bob8

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Would this be the same German car industry that is supposed to be falling over themselves post brexit to do favourable deals with the UK? Hard Brexit will be 'mission impossible' for UK and EU due to 'severe side effects' on both, warns German car chief

With respect, this is read and reported through an pro-EU lens.  The other side, a pro-Leave, would sum this up as "German car maker expresses Germany's weakness when negotiating the UK Brexit".

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Saintslass

Saintslass

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I've no idea what this 'hard brexit' is but if we want to do business with countries external to the EU as an independent nation then we have to leave the customs union as the rules of the customs union don't allow us to do business with nations outisde the EU as an independent nation. 

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Bob8

Bob8

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I've no idea what this 'hard brexit' is but if we want to do business with countries external to the EU as an independent nation then we have to leave the customs union as the rules of the customs union don't allow us to do business with nations outisde the EU as an independent nation. 

No we don't.  Are you not aware that we trade with such nations now?

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Bob8

Bob8

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We trade with them now, via the EU. 

Other than the rather theoretical "via the EU", what difference do you envisage?  Better conditions of trade without the EU perhaps?

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Saintslass

Saintslass

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Until my retirement a few months ago, I had been trading with the US  for 18 years completely independently of the EU. 

If we want trade agreements then at present they are facilitated via the EU.  We are not allowed to form our own trade agreements with non-EU nations and remain in the customs union/as a member of the EU internal market.  Individual companies are indeed free to trade with other companies in non-EU countries.  An SME I worked for earlier this year did so, with China (importing wood).  Of course the company I worked for had to meet EU standards* and paperwork in order to do so even though they didn't actually sell their finished products outside of the UK but that's another discussion.

 

*And by standards here I am not simply referring to the standard of work, ie the quality of work, but also to things like measurements of wood length and such like which did not actually meet the needs of the UK market.  This is one area where the company I worked for was very pro-brexit - they wanted to be free to manufacture their goods to meet market demand rather than having to double workload because of EU regulations.

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Padge

Padge

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Top UK Diplomat to the EU throws in the towel.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Bedford Roughyed

Bedford Roughyed

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Posted

Top UK Diplomat to the EU throws in the towel.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839

 

 

Told the government that a brexit trade deal might take 10 years and even then might collapse.

 

Pushed or jumped soon after....

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Just Browny

Just Browny

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Posted

Top UK Diplomat to the EU throws in the towel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839

Definitely a negative this one. Probably the person who knows the most about the EU in the UK, and despite what you will read on Guido etc he is by no means a Europhile.

Pilloried for telling the truth before, during and after the referendum, and condemned as negative for not believing that you can get what you want through sheer willpower.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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Saint Toppy

Saint Toppy

Posted
Posted

Top UK Diplomat to the EU throws in the towel.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The guy was due to step down from his post later this year anyway and given he was very much a Cameron ally and supported us staying in the EU its probably the right thing to do in stepping down early to allow the appointment of someone who's more in line with the current Governments position in taking us out of the EU.

St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions

 

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Bedford Roughyed

Bedford Roughyed

Posted
Posted

Ivan Rogers email to staff about his resignation has some nice digs in it.

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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ckn

ckn

Posted
Posted

A bunch of posts hidden, including a number of positive ones that looked way out of place with the other posts removed.

 

Please remember that, with the exception of a very small few, this forum is a fairly friendly place where outright bitterness is just out of place.  I may turn a bit of a blind eye towards reactive bitterness towards those who deserve it through their actions and tone but I'll not do so towards those who don't.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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Just Browny

Just Browny

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Posted

Ivan Rogers email to staff about his resignation has some nice digs in it.

What I found most interesting was that he said that 'we do not yet know what the Government will set as its negotiating objectives.'

And yet the day after Brexit, we had the usual few telling us that the diplomats would already be sorting out the deals. And those same people have been telling us all along that there obviously is a plan, we just cant reveal it publicly.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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gingerjon

gingerjon

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What I found most interesting was that he said that 'we do not yet know what the Government will set as its negotiating objectives.'

And yet the day after Brexit, we had the usual few telling us that the diplomats would already be sorting out the deals. And those same people have been telling us all along that there obviously is a plan, we just cant reveal it publicly.

 

Leave EU were yesterday triumphantly claiming that the resignation strengthens our position as now we will get an optimist instead.

 

Because it's all about heart, grit, determination and belief.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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