Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Bedford Roughyed

End of the Union.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

Yeah.  I can see how they are doing that, given how they want to be part of the EU.

Some Scots just don't like the English.  If the feelings were reversed, the English would be labelled 'little Englanders' and 'racist'.  Funny how that is never applied to the Scots.

Does it matter??

A lot of Scots don't want to be part of the Union.  Given they were sold eu membership as being a part of the Union and now won't have that, don't you think the Scots should be able to vote again? 

If a majority of Scots want to leave, why shouldn't they??

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RidingPie said:

The raw data does not lie was dismissed as project fear before the EU referendum 

Unfortunately for the SNP a lot of lessons will have been learned from Brexit.

Both sides remain & leave based their entire campaigns on rhetoric, spin, fear and in some cases out & out lies instead of giving the electorate what they actually wanted which was the facts. Since then Jimmie Krankie has complained endlessly about how Scotland was 'lied to' and how the campaign should have been fought on the supposed merits of remaining in the EU.

It now puts her in a difficult position if there's another Scottish referendum because her only real chance of winning is to stir up plenty of nationalism (a bit like Farage tried to do) and completely turn the whole debate away from the economics of independence. She and everybody else knows that based on economic facts Scotland doesn't have a hope in hell of persuading the public that they're better off on their own.

She'll no doubt trot out some claims that Scotland will walk away debt free, that they'll keep the pound and have partial control over it, that they'll remain in the EU, that they'll retain a united armed forces with the UK and get an equal say in how its run and deployed. None of which will be remotely palatable to the UK government if they left and unlikely to happen.

I can't wait for the hypocrisy to start from the SNP who wanted truth and facts to be the basis of the Brexit discussions and who will now have to base their own campaign on nothing more than nationalist rhetoric and spin. They're an oil based economy so I'm dying to hear how they'll spin the fact that their oil income is now worth peanuts.


Lets Get Brexit Done !!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Does it matter??

A lot of Scots don't want to be part of the Union.  Given they were sold eu membership as being a part of the Union and now won't have that, don't you think the Scots should be able to vote again? 

If a majority of Scots want to leave, why shouldn't they??

If the Scots want a referendum then maybe the rest of the UK should get one too to see whether they actually want Scotland to remain or to leave ? 

  • Like 2

Lets Get Brexit Done !!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saint Toppy, the problem is that the previous 3 referenda have all been, essentially won by project fear. The SNP can now use the Conservatives own brexit arguements against them, and probably have a pretty good idea what remain agreements will be put forward. 

 

Im not sure they can be countered. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

Saint Toppy, the problem is that the previous 3 referenda have all been, essentially won by project fear. The SNP can now use the Conservatives own brexit arguements against them, and probably have a pretty good idea what remain agreements will be put forward. 

 

Im not sure they can be countered. 

The SNP have been doing a good job of countering it themselves over the last 9 months, using the way the referendum was conducted to stir up nationalism and make the people of Scotland feel hard done by. They've constantly claimed the facts were ignored and that the people were lied to, using it as  a basis for their own arguments.

What they didn't realise is the very tactics they've been complaining about for 9 months is the very same ones that they need to use in order to have any hope of winning.

If May wont permit another referendum until after Brexit then their EU case is gone by the wayside. Any economic case they had can then be shot down completely by May saying that they wont keep the pound if they leave and if they try to walk away without their share of the national debt then every Scottish liability would immediately fall on the Scottish government. They'd have to fund every Scottish state pension from scratch, every civil service pension & benefit, every public service, and all with only the money they raise that financial year because they wont have any reserves. If they wanted to borrow money then their credit rating would be something akin to a 3rd world state so their debts would be massive from day 1.

When Britain chose to leave the EU we were in a relatively strong economic position and while a reversion to WTO rules would no doubt be damaging to the economy it wouldn't be fatal. Scotland on the other hand could be independent and penniless, requiring immediate multi-billion pound loans at high interest rates.

Just as the UK faces losing some of its financial sector when we leave the EU so would Scotland if it left the UK. Approx 7% of its GDP comes from this sector with a very large proportion of this being business within the rest of the UK. If Britain loses that work to the EU then they wont allow an independent Scotland to deliver it across the UK putting nearly 100,000 Scottish jobs at risk.

Ship building on the Clyde would be the next to go as there's  no way the British government would continue building navy ships in Scotland over building them in British ports.

Scotland has a lot to lose, and its a position they may never be able to recover from


Lets Get Brexit Done !!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JohnM said:

I voted Remain, but  the rabid Remainers on here have succeeded in changing my mind. 

If we were properly given a say on the issue of Scottish "independence" I would vote for "independence" thus helping Sturgeon achieve her life's ambition and at the same time removing a millstone from around our necks, whilst pleasuring the committed Remainers on here. Win - win- win!

You voted remain but people agreeing with you made you change your mind?

????

Edited by Phil
  • Like 1

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

The SNP have been doing a good job of countering it themselves over the last 9 months, using the way the referendum was conducted to stir up nationalism and make the people of Scotland feel hard done by. They've constantly claimed the facts were ignored and that the people were lied to, using it as  a basis for their own arguments.

What they didn't realise is the very tactics they've been complaining about for 9 months is the very same ones that they need to use in order to have any hope of winning.

If May wont permit another referendum until after Brexit then their EU case is gone by the wayside. Any economic case they had can then be shot down completely by May saying that they wont keep the pound if they leave and if they try to walk away without their share of the national debt then every Scottish liability would immediately fall on the Scottish government. They'd have to fund every Scottish state pension from scratch, every civil service pension & benefit, every public service, and all with only the money they raise that financial year because they wont have any reserves. If they wanted to borrow money then their credit rating would be something akin to a 3rd world state so their debts would be massive from day 1.

When Britain chose to leave the EU we were in a relatively strong economic position and while a reversion to WTO rules would no doubt be damaging to the economy it wouldn't be fatal. Scotland on the other hand could be independent and penniless, requiring immediate multi-billion pound loans at high interest rates.

Just as the UK faces losing some of its financial sector when we leave the EU so would Scotland if it left the UK. Approx 7% of its GDP comes from this sector with a very large proportion of this being business within the rest of the UK. If Britain loses that work to the EU then they wont allow an independent Scotland to deliver it across the UK putting nearly 100,000 Scottish jobs at risk.

Ship building on the Clyde would be the next to go as there's  no way the British government would continue building navy ships in Scotland over building them in British ports.

Scotland has a lot to lose, and its a position they may never be able to recover from

the Scottish parliament can call the referendum on its own. Clearly it won't be legally binding, BUT since the brexit referendum technically was only advisory it would be difficult for the uk parliament to ignore. The EU could also cause trouble as this would be happening during A50 negotiations. 

Scotland has a lot to lose (and personally I don't want them to leave), but if handled correctly they could gain a lot too. My suspicion has always been, that the SNP have some very shrewd politicians, and they are far more likely than labour or the lib dems to outmanoeuvre the conservatives. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope there is one for the comedy value of Theresa May telling Scotland that leaving one of it's trading partners is a bad idea while simultaneously telling the rest of the UK that leaving one of it's biggest trading partners is a good idea.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, the fading of the Scots' oil bonanza is directly comparable to the fading of the Welsh coal bonanza.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Yeah.  I can see how they are doing that, given how they want to be part of the EU.

Some Scots just don't like the English.  If the feelings were reversed, the English would be labelled 'little Englanders' and 'racist'.  Funny how that is never applied to the Scots.

If we are going to go down the route of suggesting that those voting leave in a Scottish referendum are racist, then we have to make the same assumption for the EU referendum.

I'm glad I live in a country where the racists lost their referendum (2014) then rather than the EU referendum last year.

 

And on a serious point, there are plenty of claims of racism against Scottish nationalists.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

Does it matter??

A lot of Scots don't want to be part of the Union.  Given they were sold eu membership as being a part of the Union and now won't have that, don't you think the Scots should be able to vote again? 

If a majority of Scots want to leave, why shouldn't they??

The Scottish have been part of the union for 300 years or so. I'm fairly sure that if the majority wanted to leave it would have happened before now, its not as if there hasn't been people who have tried to push it most of this time. 

It's also odd how many of the people who argued that Brexit was a huge mistake, seem to be now saying that it's fine for a small country like Scotland to go it alone. A country that has less population than Batley and whose main export is Irn Bru.Oh and those hat and wig combos 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a serious note,  I hope they stay put as I love Scotland. Been numerous times and it's beautiful and the people are bang on. But if they vote out, then so be it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone with a Scottish granny and English parents I find all this profoundly sad. I genuinely do. :(

The rise of nationalism in England and in Scotland is unlikely to end well for any of us. When does it ever?

If you need to wrap a policy in a flag, it's probably a useless policy.

And the vitriol bubbling up from all sides already, my god, what have we become?

  • Like 3

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, John Drake said:

As someone with a Scottish granny and English parents I find all this profoundly sad. I genuinely do. :(

The rise of nationalism in England and in Scotland is unlikely to end well for any of us. When does it ever?

If you need to wrap a policy in a flag, it's probably a useless policy.

And the vitriol bubbling up from all sides already, my god, what have we become?

Never mind that, the good news is that you've made the Scottish RL team. :D

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

On a serious note,  I hope they stay put as I love Scotland. Been numerous times and it's beautiful and the people are bang on. But if they vote out, then so be it.

Which is my stance. I really don't want them to leave. Apart from having a great band of mates from maryhill.... and being a member of partick thistle supporters club...(Yes I lnow), I just love the country. 

But I do believe they should have their own destiny in their own hands.

If it's OK for the uk to leave the Eu, it should be ok for Scotland to leave the uk

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Phil said:

You voted remain but people agreeing with you made you change your mind?

????

People who voted the same way perhaps, but then when I read their reasons, hopes, ambitions etc, false arguments etc, I changed my mind. Try it..its liberating! :tongue::tongue:


Four legs good - two legs bad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too shall still visit Scotland before and after they leave. Spending a few days on Arran over the May Bank Holiday weekend. I'll report back on the sentiment.


Four legs good - two legs bad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I hope there is one for the comedy value of Theresa May telling Scotland that leaving one of it's trading partners is a bad idea while simultaneously telling the rest of the UK that leaving one of it's biggest trading partners is a good idea.

I found the whole "politics isn't a game" very hypocritical from May yesterday.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I hope there is one for the comedy value of Theresa May telling Scotland that leaving one of it's trading partners is a bad idea while simultaneously telling the rest of the UK that leaving one of it's biggest trading partners is a good idea.

Scotland isn't a trading partner. It's an integral part of the UK that we've been propping up ever since Scotland went bust over Darien


Four legs good - two legs bad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Scotland isn't a trading partner. It's an integral part of the UK that we've been propping up ever since Scotland went bust over Darien

No.problem us letting em go then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just seen this on another website, not sure if this is true or not .....

Sturgeon has no legal authority to call a referendum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

No.problem us letting em go then?

None whatsoever.  It's a win-win.  No more Sturgeon, no more begging bowl, no more RBS


Four legs good - two legs bad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jasper said:

Just seen this on another website, not sure if this is true or not .....

Sturgeon has no legal authority to call a referendum

People pretend this did not happen:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/theresa-may-flies-to-edinburgh-to-tell-scots-that-she-believes-w/

Because their tribalism is stupid enough that they will happily be stupid.

 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...