Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

[Mattrhino]

16 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

I agree with everything you've said, except the years they're being played. An ashes series this year, building on the NZ win, would've been big. And a 4N in 2020 would've achieved everything you've said, plus had the added conversation starter of "are England building to a world cup win?" Given they'd be strong favourites for the 4N, the context of playing between the ashes and a world cup could've generated some extra talking points. It's also the pragmatic choice for fitting in with NRL plans, making money, and beating an Australian team that is vulnerable now, but will be less so by 2020. Big opportunity missed.

Either way is fine by me. But we need to scrap this tour and go back to the drawing board and do it properly another year. 

[Mattrhino]

16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Casuals and new fans would have forgotten that in two years time. There is no reason to change to this year other than just kow-towing to NRL demands.

Its a stupid argument anyway because we simply don't play anywhere near enough international RL. Israel Folau has more Wallabies caps than Cam Smith has Kangaroo caps. He has nearly twice as many as Greg Inglis

think it depends if we won the series. We could then go into the WC as the bonefide no1 in the world. I think we would be favourites if we played them this Autumn.

[Mattrhino]

14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I think that has less impact this year than next.

(obviously it would still be great)

True, but the Aussies could be a total different beast in 2 years where our ageing stars will be 2 years older.

My main argument is that yes we have had the rug pulled from under us, and the NRL are bar stewards for doing it. But if we look at if without emotion. It would be have been better to sort the ashes out this year then have plenty of time and a bit of money in the bank (maybe) to sort something decent out in two years time.

Now we have a broke RFL with 9 months to organise something out.

[Man of Kent]

Down to four games, according to LE, from five. No Samoa. Funding delays holding everything up.

[Clogiron]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Down to four games, according to LE, from five. No Samoa. Funding delays holding everything up.

It ain't gonna happen.

[Man of Kent]

6 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

It ain't gonna happen.

Wouldn’t bet on it happening either.

The RFL is blaming the RLIF for the delay...

 

[ghost crayfish]

Rimmer and Wood, together again!

[Abicus]

21 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Down to four games, according to LE, from five. No Samoa. Funding delays holding everything up.

2x New Zealand, PNG and Tonga?

[17 stone giant]

How keen are NZ on hosting the matches? Given that they came to us in 2018, I think it's good to give them something in their own country, if they want us.

Maybe just make it three games in NZ - two against NZ and one against Tonga. That would keep down the costs of having to travel to Australia to play PNG. I'm not sure where that would leave the non-English members of the squad though, as I'd imagine we'd put out our strongest 13 for those three matches.

Hopefully the RFL will have a bit more money after the home series in 2020 and the world cup in 2021, so the next time we tour we can go for something more substantial (including a match against Australia).

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, Abicus said:

2x New Zealand, PNG and Tonga?

Precisely, yes

[roughyedspud]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:37 PM, Man of Kent said:

Wouldn’t bet on it happening either.

The RFL is blaming the RLIF for the delay...

 

And the RLIF will say bi-lateral tours are nothing to do with the RLIF...and that's 100% true

 

9 hours ago, Abicus said:

2x New Zealand, PNG and Tonga?

Tonga,nz,Fiji & png

[Man of Kent]

3 hours ago, roughyedspud said:

And the RLIF will say bi-lateral tours are nothing to do with the RLIF...and that's 100% true

 

Tonga,nz,Fiji & png

LE story said no Fiji either. 4 games total

[Abicus]

Would need the two matches against NZ to actually have some hope of making money I would have thought (plus quality opposition no?)

[Scubby]

Anyone remember how the historic All Golds anniversary game was celebrated? We try and do everything on the cheap and it goes #### up.

This tour should never have even been in the thought process of an organisation which has spent 10 years trying to build up an England brand. It was of its time (largely due to a large number of Welsh RU converts being in our game). Move forward and grow FFS!!

[roughyedspud]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

LE story said no Fiji either. 4 games total

Aahh OK then...

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Abicus said:

Would need the two matches against NZ to actually have some hope of making money I would have thought (plus quality opposition no?)

Matches against Tonga in New Zealand will make more money than matches against New Zealand. England/GB matches against New Zealand have never been particularly well attended.

[nadera78]

This tour, if it goes ahead, will lose a lot of money.

[Dave T]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:37 PM, Man of Kent said:

Wouldn’t bet on it happening either.

The RFL is blaming the RLIF for the delay...

 

Worst. Haka. Ever.

[Dave T]

What is most depressing about this is that there just isn't any reason to do this. At all. 

I'm not even against the principle of GB Lions, if it meant we could tap into new sponsorship streams, or go on tours that we just don't do as England.

But, they have made such a mess of it:

> England unlikely to play this year

> Unlikely to have new sponsorship/commercial deals (it'll be Dacia and Ronseal on the shirt no doubt)

> The plans are so late that there will be very few travelling fans

> Hardly a massive draw for a broadcasting deal.

> No games versus Aus

Had they done this well, got quality partners, quality merchandise, a great schedule announced well in advance, organised fan tours, managed to have a couple of England games in mid-season and maybe one at the end of the year before GB go on tour, then it could have been enjoyable and suggested a future for the concept. 

This is just a mess on all fronts. If there will be no travelling fans, no increased high value sponsorships, no high-value tv deals, no high value games versus Aus - what is the point?

[Damien]

Good leaders admit their poor decisions and take steps to correct them before it is too late. There is still plenty of time to do this as nothing has even been finalised yet. This tour was a flawed concept from the start after spending a decade building the England brand and became fatally flawed, both from an interest and financial perspective, the moment Australia weren't interested. 

[JoneslessBishop]

Fiji and Samoa were always midweek add ones that required us taking a bigger squad, although that could have justified taking a few more Celts. As long as we get decent crowds against NZ should  look a success in TV, as Tonga will sell out Id expect, as will PNG if in PNG. The Knights tour should give us confidence in taking a game there.

[Allora]

23 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

At the point we are at I really don't see why they are pushing forward with it in this format. It's very strange. 

Why a half tour, what good is it going to do. It's not going to make loads of money, it's not going to be high profile.

The RFL would make more money hosting the Pacific sides against England in England. We could with a bit of work sell out somewhere like Headingley for Samao v Tonga and somewhere like Elland road for England v Fiji. Instead we are going to get 15k for GB v Samoa in NZ.

If the idea of this is to create a new international property then play against a Pac Islands side on a weekend and residents/development international sides midweek and create a proper new property in the Lions v Pacifika instead of what we are doing which is creating a new property which seems to be 'RU Lions tour, but not as good. Who do they think the market for that is?

I don't know if the Island Nations would want to play as a "Pacifika" side.

They do not always get on well with each other,

It not be like a West Indies Cricket team.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Allora said:

I don't know if the Island Nations would want to play as a "Pacifika" side.

They do not always get on well with each other,

It not be like a West Indies Cricket team.

They hardly get any games anyway as it is either. I would much rather them get more games as their actual Nations first.

[Harry Stottle]

On 12/31/2018 at 11:14 PM, roughyedspud said:

I'd guess the 12 teams would be

Australia

Nz

Tonga

Samoa

Fiji

Png

GB

France...that's 8 "Big teams" with 4 spots free to go to the likes of USA,Canada,Jamaica,Serbia,Lebanon etc..

But knowing the Aussie's they'll probably want the aboriginal & Maori teams in there leaving only 2 places for proper international teams

Please define proper as opposed to manufactured.

[Dave T]

53 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

 

The RFL would make more money hosting the Pacific sides against England in England. We could with a bit of work sell out somewhere like Headingley for Samao v Tonga and somewhere like Elland road for England v Fiji. Instead we are going to get 15k for GB v Samoa in NZ.

 

Absolutely right. 

The success of some of the group games in the World Cup just hasn't been capitalised on. I know people will say that the prestige of being a World Cup increased the crowds, but tbh, I don't agree that that was a major point - we have seen World Cup games get pathetic crowds, the bigger issue was that they were well organised, well in advance, with decent games in decent places at decent times.

In the RLWC2013:

Tonga averaged 9.6k over 3 games - 2 sellouts. Games played in Workington, Leigh and Halifax.

Samoa averaged 11.3k over 4 games - 2 sellouts. Games played in Wire, Hull and Perpignan.

Fiji averaged 15.2k over 4 games - 2 sellouts. Games played in Wire, Rochdale, Saints and Hull.

PNG averaged 10.8k over 3 games. Played in Hull and Leeds.

Those numbers were a great base to start from. Decent numbers had been and watched these teams, built a bit of a bond with them, seen some amazing games, genuinely brilliant stuff. Bought into the war dances etc. 

That was over 5 years ago. Since then England have played:

Samoa in Brisbane (47k)

Samoa in Campbelltown (18k)

PNG in Melbourne - WC - (10k)

Tonga in Auckland - WC - (30k)

It is appalling that we haven't played any of these teams here since, and have no plans to do so. They will no doubt just be here again in 2021, when we have to build up the sell of these again from scratch.

There really is no legacy from 2013.