NRL.com: Push for Kangaroos tour England 2019 at RLIF meeting?

[foozler]

Great Britain for a number of reasons has had its day IMO and should be left in the RL annals.

FWIW, I would happily buy tickets tomorrow for all 3 games of an England v Australia Test series in 2019. And I am sure I could get quite a few friends and family along.

 

[foozler]

Just now, yipyee said:

So if England play as GB but is really England and they whitewash the Aussies 3-0 (wishful thinking) they would get 0 ranking points and Aussies would stay as world number 1 team. Even though they just got whitewashed. How does this add credibility to the international game?

In the past there were actual Welsh players who were good enough for GB. Since union turned pro there is no top union players playing league and therefore no need for the lions.

Each union lions tour there is talk of it being the last as it's an outdated concept. It's only that it's profitable that the concept is kept alive. It does more for the SH nations than it does for the home nations.

Lions union is best left in the past and England is the future. If not we risk loosing the momentum in the England brand that has been built up!

 

This.

[Dave T]

Just now, yipyee said:

So if England play as GB but is really England and they whitewash the Aussies 3-0 (wishful thinking) they would get 0 ranking points and Aussies would stay as world number 1 team. Even though they just got whitewashed. How does this add credibility to the international game?

In the past there were actual Welsh players who were good enough for GB. Since union turned pro there is no top union players playing league and therefore no need for the lions.

Each union lions tour there is talk of it being the last as it's an outdated concept. It's only that it's profitable that the concept is kept alive. It does more for the SH nations than it does for the home nations.

Lions union is best left in the past and England is the future. If not we risk loosing the momentum in the England brand that has been built up!

 

Yes. They would get 0 ranking points. Just like the British Lions or Barbarians in RU.

If England want to earn ranking points they need to organise games for starters.

[yipyee]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes. They would get 0 ranking points. Just like the British Lions or Barbarians in RU.

If England want to earn ranking points they need to organise games for starters.

Like an ashes series with australia??

Can't help but feel you are trolling now!

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Like an ashes series with australia??

Can't help but feel you are trolling now!

I'm not sure you are following the discussion here. In fact, you definitely aren't.

What is trolling about stating that if GB play the Aussies, England won't get ranking points, just like they don't in RU?

[yipyee]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure you are following the discussion here. In fact, you definitely aren't.

What is trolling about stating that if GB play the Aussies, England won't get ranking points, just like they don't in RU?

Your ignoring that England playing as GB won't reap the benefits of playing australia.

You can't compare to union as that team is made up of 4 national governing bodies with an independent coach. They take enough for 2 squads and politically ensure there are playing and coaching representatives of all 4 unions.

RL wants to give England a different tag and Jersey and nothing else would change. 

 

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Your ignoring that England playing as GB won't reap the benefits of playing australia.

You can't compare to union as that team is made up of 4 national governing bodies with an independent coach. They take enough for 2 squads and politically ensure there are playing and coaching representatives of all 4 unions.

RL wants to give England a different tag and Jersey and nothing else would change. 

 

None of that has anything to do with my post about how rankings work.

[roughyedspud]

I'm hearing the GB tour might get scrapped...

The lack of a meaningful 3 Test  series and that Scotland & Wales or Ireland need to play in a world cup qualifying tournament next October so are keen to have their best players playing for them and not GB,has put a serious cloud over the tour...

Guess we'll find out at the weekend..

[17 stone giant]

I was just looking at The Ashes history. I had forgotten that Australia haven't hosted an Ashes series since 1992. That's over a quarter of a century ago. A whole generation has grown up without ever seeing Australia play a home series.

[ghost crayfish]

There is literally no demand here in Australia to see an English or GB rugby league side. It's sad but true, and English authorities just need to accept it. If they don't quit trying to force the NRL into a position it plainly won't agree to, that situation will not change. But if they partner with them to get it right, then it will. Book in a home ashes series for next year - work with the NRL to promote the hell out of it. It will be big, it will be great. Thats how to change the general apathy here. Then invite Tonga and Fiji over for 2020 to promote the world cup in a 4N with France. That series would do so much more to promote the world cup than an ashes series anyway, because it would show it's not a two horse race. Putting this great Tongan side on show on the BBC would change perceptions in the general English public about international league. Showcasing a Fijian side which includes NFL star Jarryd Hayne, alongside a number of other brilliant players - Uate, Vunivalu, Blake, Kikau, maybe even Radrada - would be another great promotion for the world cup. There's a real chance right now to build a coherent, positive calendar that builds momentum for international rugby league - and despite some merits in its favour, the GB tour just doesn't fit right now.

[yipyee]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

None of that has anything to do with my post about how rankings work.

It does and now you are definitely trolling

[Luckycreed]

1 hour ago, ghost crayfish said:

There is literally no demand here in Australia to see an English or GB rugby league side. It's sad but true, and English authorities just need to accept it. If they don't quit trying to force the NRL into a position it plainly won't agree to, that situation will not change. But if they partner with them to get it right, then it will. Book in a home ashes series for next year - work with the NRL to promote the hell out of it. It will be big, it will be great. Thats how to change the general apathy here. Then invite Tonga and Fiji over for 2020 to promote the world cup in a 4N with France. That series would do so much more to promote the world cup than an ashes series anyway, because it would show it's not a two horse race. Putting this great Tongan side on show on the BBC would change perceptions in the general English public about international league. Showcasing a Fijian side which includes NFL star Jarryd Hayne, alongside a number of other brilliant players - Uate, Vunivalu, Blake, Kikau, maybe even Radrada - would be another great promotion for the world cup. There's a real chance right now to build a coherent, positive calendar that builds momentum for international rugby league - and despite some merits in its favour, the GB tour just doesn't fit right now.

I don't agree there would be no interest,if you played the first test in Brisbane you would get  35 - 40k and over a million would watch on tv. what happened from there would really depend on how England performed...

If they won or came close the second test would be big, if on the other hand they got thumped you would be lucky to get 20k to a second test in Sydney and if they got thumped again the third test would be a complete write off.

[Scubby]

9 minutes ago, yipyee said:

It does and now you are definitely trolling

You can't give England ranking points for playing as GB when Scotland, Ireland and Wales are in the same ranking system. It is not 1988 when these sides weren't in the rankings. GB is a flawed concept and damages England's aim to be the number 1 country in the World.

[ghost crayfish]

15 minutes ago, Luckycreed said:

I don't agree there would be no interest,if you played the first test in Brisbane you would get  35 - 40k and over a million would watch on tv. what happened from there would really depend on how England performed...

If they won or came close the second test would be big, if on the other hand they got thumped you would be lucky to get 20k to a second test in Sydney and if they got thumped again the third test would be a complete write off.

Possibly. But I'm not saying there'd be no interest, I'm saying there's no (or little) demand. If there was, we wouldn't be having this conversation...

[Luckycreed]

7 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

Possibly. But I'm not saying there'd be no interest, I'm saying there's no (or little) demand. If there was, we wouldn't be having this conversation...

Actually going to the Rugby League project and looking at crowds for test football against the other two leading nations in Brisbane in the modern era and they are actually very good,IM 2008 even a neutral game between New Zealand and England drew Over 26000 and crowds  of over 40k have been quite common..As usual we are getting the Sydney view of things, at least as far as Brisbane is concerned lack of interest seems to be a bit of an urban myth.

[SilentAssassin]

6 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

I was just looking at The Ashes history. I had forgotten that Australia haven't hosted an Ashes series since 1992. That's over a quarter of a century ago. A whole generation has grown up without ever seeing Australia play a home series.

true but GB did play in the tri series 2006 over there which included 2 test matches so not far off.

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

There is literally no demand here in Australia to see an English or GB rugby league side. It's sad but true, and English authorities just need to accept it. If they don't quit trying to force the NRL into a position it plainly won't agree to, that situation will not change. But if they partner with them to get it right, then it will. Book in a home ashes series for next year - work with the NRL to promote the hell out of it. It will be big, it will be great. Thats how to change the general apathy here. Then invite Tonga and Fiji over for 2020 to promote the world cup in a 4N with France. That series would do so much more to promote the world cup than an ashes series anyway, because it would show it's not a two horse race. Putting this great Tongan side on show on the BBC would change perceptions in the general English public about international league. Showcasing a Fijian side which includes NFL star Jarryd Hayne, alongside a number of other brilliant players - Uate, Vunivalu, Blake, Kikau, maybe even Radrada - would be another great promotion for the world cup. There's a real chance right now to build a coherent, positive calendar that builds momentum for international rugby league - and despite some merits in its favour, the GB tour just doesn't fit right now.

There's also equally no demand to watch Australia. Which is even worse.

[ghost crayfish]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There's also equally no demand to watch Australia. Which is even worse.

True. Of course there's some passive interest - rugby league is too popular for there not to be - but the demand isn't there (seemingly not from most fans, broadcasters, or sponsors) and as a result, the NRL just don't seem to want to bother hosting games in Australia.  Unfortunate, but fine, so just let Australia tour! Seems like a win-win to me? England needs to host test footy, Australia want to come play them. Just seems simple to me.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

True. Of course there's some passive interest - rugby league is too popular for there not to be - but the demand isn't there (seemingly not from most fans, broadcasters, or sponsors) and as a result, the NRL just don't seem to want to bother hosting games in Australia.  Unfortunate, but fine, so just let Australia tour! Seems like a win-win to me? England needs to host test footy, Australia want to come play them. Just seems simple to me.

And, I'd presume, to a player the prospect of a Kangaroos tour is at least more intriguing than playing a few games as Australia in the same grounds you've played in all season, just in front of a less interested crowd.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

It does and now you are definitely trolling

You seem to have got yourself confused with this discussion for some reason. Against my better judgement I'll give it one more go.

This is about the process of how the ranking points work. England are in the RLIF rankings, not GB. If the RFL decide to play as GB next year, then England do not get any ranking points. It doesn't matter if 15 of the 17 players are English, we don't get 15/17ths of the points - for England RL to get ranking points, England RL need to play games. It's exactly how it works in RU, B&I Lions are not in thge rankings, nor were the Pacific Nations team, or the Barbarians.

That is simple, and factual. I'm not sure why explaining that makes me a troll. Calling people out as trolls on this forum is frowned upon, and your post is a perfect example why.

You seem to be confusing the above with being an endorsement of playing as GB, when it is nothing of the sort - quite the opposite.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

True. Of course there's some passive interest - rugby league is too popular for there not to be - but the demand isn't there (seemingly not from most fans, broadcasters, or sponsors) and as a result, the NRL just don't seem to want to bother hosting games in Australia.  Unfortunate, but fine, so just let Australia tour! Seems like a win-win to me? England needs to host test footy, Australia want to come play them. Just seems simple to me.

I agree with the sentiment tbh, but its poor that in the supposed RL stronghold nation the Kangaroos don't automatically get support. Equally, as any of the England team will tell you, touring is more beneficial to the team than hosting, bringing the group closer together etc. I'm sure the kiwis will have taken a lot from this tour with a fairly fresh squad.

 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

There is literally no demand here in Australia to see an English or GB rugby league side. It's sad but true, and English authorities just need to accept it. If they don't quit trying to force the NRL into a position it plainly won't agree to, that situation will not change. But if they partner with them to get it right, then it will. Book in a home ashes series for next year - work with the NRL to promote the hell out of it. It will be big, it will be great. Thats how to change the general apathy here. Then invite Tonga and Fiji over for 2020 to promote the world cup in a 4N with France. That series would do so much more to promote the world cup than an ashes series anyway, because it would show it's not a two horse race. Putting this great Tongan side on show on the BBC would change perceptions in the general English public about international league. Showcasing a Fijian side which includes NFL star Jarryd Hayne, alongside a number of other brilliant players - Uate, Vunivalu, Blake, Kikau, maybe even Radrada - would be another great promotion for the world cup. There's a real chance right now to build a coherent, positive calendar that builds momentum for international rugby league - and despite some merits in its favour, the GB tour just doesn't fit right now.

 

1 hour ago, Luckycreed said:

 I don't agree there would be no interest,if you played the first test in Brisbane you would get  35 - 40k and over a million would watch on tv. what happened from there would really depend on how England performed...

If they won or came close the second test would be big, if on the other hand they got thumped you would be lucky to get 20k to a second test in Sydney and if they got thumped again the third test would be a complete write off.

Agreed. There is literally no evidence to suggest that there is no demand for this.

Since 2002 the games between these nations in Oz have seen:

40k in Brisbane

23k in Melbourne

21k in Melbourne

19k in Melbourne

36k in Melbourne

As GB:

44k in Brisbane

25k in Sydney

32k in Sydney

We have seen during the World Cup that the viewing figures are very healthy for this game.

We have also seen decent crowds for the couple of WCC games held in Oz in recent years. 

The above numbers are not a terrible starting point.

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

You can't give England ranking points for playing as GB when Scotland, Ireland and Wales are in the same ranking system. It is not 1988 when these sides weren't in the rankings. GB is a flawed concept and damages England's aim to be the number 1 country in the World.

If you read the thread that is exactly my point GB will damage our national team!

[yipyee]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You seem to have got yourself confused with this discussion for some reason. Against my better judgement I'll give it one more go.

This is about the process of how the ranking points work. England are in the RLIF rankings, not GB. If the RFL decide to play as GB next year, then England do not get any ranking points. It doesn't matter if 15 of the 17 players are English, we don't get 15/17ths of the points - for England RL to get ranking points, England RL need to play games. It's exactly how it works in RU, B&I Lions are not in thge rankings, nor were the Pacific Nations team, or the Barbarians.

That is simple, and factual. I'm not sure why explaining that makes me a troll. Calling people out as trolls on this forum is frowned upon, and your post is a perfect example why.

You seem to be confusing the above with being an endorsement of playing as GB, when it is nothing of the sort - quite the opposite.

That's my point England would win ranking points but not be assigned them as idiots would sooner see them play as GB than England.

This would damage our national team!!

If GB toured and England still played as union do that is different but you need get your head from up your own backside!

[M j M]

I don't think there is a single person out there who really believes the real target of the England team is to become the number one ranked team in the world. It's to win series and win a World Cup.