Gates1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Utterly bizarre reason to flout the rules. We have a cap and all teams should stick to it, injuries or not. Can’t remember Saints crying last year about Walmsley, Leeds moaning about the loss of Hall etc Spose an alternative would be Wigan esq approach to flout the cap by simply knowingly breaching it. Hall and Walmsley both played last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Gates1 said: Spose an alternative would be Wigan esq approach to flout the cap by simply knowingly breaching it. Hall and Walmsley both played last year. Both were out for six months plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gates1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Both were out for six months plus. But both participated in the season though. Gale is unlikely to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gates1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: I would assume if it was some known issue that kept a player out for multiple seasons i could imagine it being necessary. Or if there is some kind of disaster (god forbid) like a coach crash etc. The thing is I dont necessarily disagree with the idea of there being some sort of dispensation for long term injuries but this seems a kind of arbitrary way of going about it. Did Wigan get dispensation for Manfredi? Gale will miss probably 8 or 9 months minimum of RL but players have suffered worse injuries spreading of two seasons that would mean they miss a longer period of time. Are they able to claim dispensation for that. I cant really see whats different about this example that makes it different enough from many others. To be honest I think Gale will be done for the season. I'd assume any dispensation would be conditional to his wage only been except if he doesn't play this season. I don't really have a strong opinion either way to be honest. Bout time Cas had some luck with injuries though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gates1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Yeah Im a bit undecided about it. I wouldnt really have a problem with Cas getting dispensation but if they do there needs to be a overhaul of the Cap to take in to account injuries because there is a question of fairness and the arbitrary nature of it. Agree any dispensation would have to be transparent and available in the same circs. The other thing I would say is Wells doesn't actually specify the grounds they would apply for a dispensation on. The actual cap various from club to club (Marque players, up to 100k for producing players, 15k player Welfare). I doubt Cas are maximising these in the same way clubs like Wigan, Saints and Wire are. The dispensation could simply be to apply for the max 115k and apply to move Shenton to a Marque player, removing some of his wages. (I would assume you have to make a formal application for any of these dispensations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 In the NFL... And other sports... They have an Injured Reserve rule. If they have a serious Injury they can be taken off the roster and temporarily replaced. But they cannot play for the rest of the season (I think). I had not aware that e.g. Manfredi was taken off the cap. There has been no formal rule on taking injured players off the cap has there, and many players have been on long injury absences recently. So to me, Cas are stuck with it. But if it's thought there should be some proper rule then it should be agreed by the league, not a convenient quick fix. The league should meet and work out a rule and bring it in the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedan Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 As mentioned, if Cas don't get dispensation, there are still avenues open. We don't have a marquee player, so one option would be to use that (I'm not sure how though - as someone mentioned we could move a current player to marquee status to free up some cap perhaps). Even if we don't do anything, I think we'll be OK. We played most of last season without Gale and still finished 3rd. Between them, Ellis, Roberts and McShane should be able to cover for him. And it gives young Aston as chance to prove himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I don't suppose Zak Hardaker was included in Wigan's quota last season. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 This opens up a real can of worms with the potential for clubs to find ways round the cap unless the rule change is throughly thought through, debated and agreed across clubs and the RFL. So not against this change in principal, I just think the RFL shouldn't rush into making a change to suit Cas now before the season starts St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Surely but sadly it’s just terrible luck and can happen , and has happened , many times to many clubs . That’s why you have a squad and you’ve got to get on with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Saint Toppy said: This opens up a real can of worms with the potential for clubs to find ways round the cap unless the rule change is throughly thought through, debated and agreed across clubs and the RFL. So not against this change in principal, I just think the RFL shouldn't rush into making a change to suit Cas now before the season starts It is already in the Salary Cap regulations that Cas can apply for a dispensation due to injury. It doesn't give any more detail than that, and I think it is considered on a case by case basis. It is on the RFL website, but the doc wont allow me to copy and paste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 25 minutes ago, Dave T said: It is already in the Salary Cap regulations that Cas can apply for a dispensation due to injury. It doesn't give any more detail than that, and I think it is considered on a case by case basis. It is on the RFL website, but the doc wont allow me to copy and paste. I am not sure that it should be on a case by case basis. There have been a number of high profile players who were injured on a long time basis. As far as I know none were given Cap dispensation, and of course some clubs might have been well under the Cap anyway. And if there were some "quiet" dispensation, why are Cas now making an issue of it? Gale was injured and did play at end of last season. Its not as if he was still out without a gap since he was first injured last year. I do believe that some sort of clear Injured Reserve rule would be fair, but properly introduced in good timely fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said: I am not sure that it should be on a case by case basis. There have been a number of high profile players who were injured on a long time basis. As far as I know none were given Cap dispensation, and of course some clubs might have been well under the Cap anyway. And if there were some "quiet" dispensation, why are Cas now making an issue of it? Gale was injured and did play at end of last season. Its not as if he was still out without a gap since he was first injured last year. I do believe that some sort of clear Injured Reserve rule would be fair, but properly introduced in good timely fashion. I'm not sure it should be either, I made that assumption simply on the basis that they don't state a set period of time. I understand if dispensation was given for a player being out all season, but what if he returns in the minimum and then a player would have to sit on the sidelines for a fair chunk of the season (July onwards) despite being fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 14 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Utterly bizarre reason to flout the rules. We have a cap and all teams should stick to it, injuries or not. Can’t remember Saints crying last year about Walmsley, Leeds moaning about the loss of Hall etc How exactly is it flouting the rules if they have asked the RFL if they can do it within the salary cap rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dave T said: I'm not sure it should be either, I made that assumption simply on the basis that they don't state a set period of time. I understand if dispensation was given for a player being out all season, but what if he returns in the minimum and then a player would have to sit on the sidelines for a fair chunk of the season (July onwards) despite being fit. That possibility would have to be taken into account when the club applied for dispensation. If he does come back to fitness they will have to loan him out somewhere. Otherwise I think it is perfectly reasonable for Cas to apply for and receive dispensation given the season doesn't start for another month. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Could be a swap deal on the cards with Wardle to Hudds and Rankin the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muckymunksy Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Cas have been given the go ahead By the RFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gates1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said: I am not sure that it should be on a case by case basis. There have been a number of high profile players who were injured on a long time basis. As far as I know none were given Cap dispensation, and of course some clubs might have been well under the Cap anyway. And if there were some "quiet" dispensation, why are Cas now making an issue of it? Gale was injured and did play at end of last season. Its not as if he was still out without a gap since he was first injured last year. I do believe that some sort of clear Injured Reserve rule would be fair, but properly introduced in good timely fashion. Gale played in the Semi final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Boy Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 It's an interesting point... I do feel for Gale and hope he has a speedy, full recovery. However, I shudder when I hear of anything "special" to do with Rugby League, as it invariably will be a mish-mosh and cause consternation with other clubs etc. My understanding is he had missed the internationals as he had to have surgery as his knee had not healed properly. He was likely to miss a month or 2 of the start of the season (quote from Jon Wells " Gale missed four months of the 2018 season with a broken kneecap and, although he made his comeback during the play-offs, he was forced to miss England's Test series against New Zealand in order to undergo further surgery, which would have forced him to sit out the first month of the new campaign."), so he wasn't expected to play a full season anyway... I'm no fan of the Salary Cap, but get the feeling, it's becoming a term rather than a practice! I'd have thought that by deregistering Gale, to get him off cap and then register another player, would do the job, although it would free him up to be signed elsewhere? That to me would be the way to do it without any "special dispensation"? Cas run the risk of him being poached, but c'est la vie! If anyone has a link to the current Salary Cap rules it might help? I just see this being very messy! Money can't buy you happiness! It can buy you beer and that's a bit like happiness in a glass! "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." Sir Winston Churchill Some folks are wise and some are otherwise! Tobias Smollett "I distrust camels, and anyone else who can go a week without a drink." Joe E Lewis "Look at the ffing state of that"! My mate on the Avenue last Friday whilst pointing to a scantily clad young lady and spitting a mouthful of beer out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenilworth Tiger Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Good Lord - Cas have done nothing wrong as it is in the rules....anyway.....we still need to find some money form somewhere to "replace" him which I'm not particularly confident is there Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in. I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try Kevin Ward - best player I have ever seen The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 24 minutes ago, Kenilworth Tiger said: Good Lord - Cas have done nothing wrong as it is in the rules....anyway.....we still need to find some money form somewhere to "replace" him which I'm not particularly confident is there Car have not done anything, because they have not done anything! And if you do not ask you do not get. There is not, it seems to be, a "rule" in the first place. Just an ad hoc arrangement. The issue should be that the rule or procedure should be regularised. And the principle should be that the player should be taken off the rota for the remainder of the season. The other item of note is that Cas are already up to their cap limit. Some expensive players out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenilworth Tiger Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 wow - some people getting incredibly irate over something that may or may not happen What a time to be alive Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in. I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try Kevin Ward - best player I have ever seen The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gates1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 21 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: The other item of note is that Cas are already up to their cap limit. Some expensive players out there Yet Cas still probably spent a couple of 100k a year less than the teams they completed with to finish in the top 4 last year. Are the Cas players the expensive ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Gates1 said: Yet Cas still probably spent a couple of 100k a year less than the teams they completed with to finish in the top 4 last year. Are the Cas players the expensive ones? Yes, my logic is flawed. The wisdom of filling up the Cap is another whole thread perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gates1 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Dispensation granted. Apparently it's been available to clubs since 2016 and several clubs (Wire, Wigan and Hull KR supposedly) have already utilised this dispensation since its introduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.