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49 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Farrell has always been a top top player.

Still don't understand the Bateman love - just because the Aussies think he's the best 2nd rower in the world doesn't mean he is - Bateman just can't dominate SL like he did in the NRL and Farrell has always and still is a far better player than Bateman.

They may both be the same size and weight but there's a world of difference between the 2. Farrell is just too passive in defence compared to Bateman. When was the last time you saw an opposition player make a mistake because they were more concerned in looking where Farrell was coming from to tackle them, or when you last saw an opposition forward crumpled in a heap on the floor from a crunching tackle from him ??

Farrell is a good SL standard player no doubt but not international class. Its not just his size its his lack of aggression that's also an issue, something Bateman has in spades.

Bateman didn't have a particularly good year last year (but neither did Farrell) but he's improved this year (though not quite to his NRL form as yet), so as long as he's fit Bateman is always going to be that choice over Farrell.

Others have said Wane would be mad to select both of them together. They may get away with it against the weaker reams like France but against Aus, NZ & Tonga we would get hammered on the edges.

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19 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

thing with this years  wc - if it goes ahead this time - there will be monsters on show from many countries that we have never seen the like of - while international rl has been sleeping the monsters have been mutating 

I pretty much agree with Toppy - although I am in awe of Farrell as a leader for Wigan. He is a great line runner, but Bateman is rougher and tougher.

I don't think you pick both in a WC semi or a WC final.

The big players will be playing in UK conditions, on soccer pitches and smaller RL grounds where the weather may be damp and gloomy. Smaller SL players might fancy their chances and be confident of those bigger physiques finding the differences tough and wearying.

David Fifita of Oz is a physical weapon but I just find him lazy and lacking in footballing nous. I'm not a fan of favouring barn-storming monsters over footballing smarts that might bring their own rewards.

It would be hard to leave Farrell out if he keeps going this strongly. I remember that test match in Melbourne where the Ryan Hall last minute try was ruled out. I thought he added an extra element to England's left side attack that day. Being small and energetic can bring reward against bigger players.

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2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

They may both be the same size and weight but there's a world of difference between the 2. Farrell is just too passive in defence compared to Bateman. When was the last time you saw an opposition player make a mistake because they were more concerned in looking where Farrell was coming from to tackle them, or when you last saw an opposition forward crumpled in a heap on the floor from a crunching tackle from him ??

Farrell is a good SL standard player no doubt but not international class. Its not just his size its his lack of aggression that's also an issue, something Bateman has in spades.

Bateman didn't have a particularly good year last year (but neither did Farrell) but he's improved this year (though not quite to his NRL form as yet), so as long as he's fit Bateman is always going to be that choice over Farrell.

Others have said Wane would be mad to select both of them together. They may get away with it against the weaker reams like France but against Aus, NZ & Tonga we would get hammered on the edges.

I agree with this to some extent. The of the big differences between the two is definitely their levels of aggression in how they play the game. Bateman at his best can be a real mongrel in defence, whereas Farrell at his best is a solid, workhorse defender. If you were to put both of them up against a much bigger 110kg back row forward Bateman would be far more likely to put in a dominant tackle. That makes a difference at international level and its why Bateman would be considered 1st choice between the two by most coaches.

Having said that, Farrell had a good year last year (hence why he was once again named in the dream team) and his form only dipped later in the year when he picked up an injury. Compare both players in terms of form in the last two years though and Farrell wins by a long, long way.

Bateman is starting to show a bit more form which is great. If his form approaches what he's capable of he'll be right side second rower for England and I'd expect Whitehead to be on the left.

I do think Farrell is more than worthy of a place in the England squad though. He's never really played badly in the 10 games he's played for England previously, and when you consider he's not played for England for 6 years that means he's never played for England while at his peak. He's not likely to let anyone down if he's selected, which is probably better as a back up player than someone who occasionally players well in Super League but lacks consistency. There's plenty about his game that can still make him a threat at international level. The lines he runs are second to none, he's got pace, agility, an underrated passing game and the intelligence to put himself in the right places at the right time.

For me he's probably not going to be one of our starting players, but barring an unprecedented drop in form he has to make the squad.

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Just watched the Brisbane game - Farnworth is definitely the real deal. If he is fit he needs to be one of the starting centres - 6 tries in 8 games.

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3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Just watched the Brisbane game - Farnworth is definitely the real deal. If he is fit he needs to be one of the starting centres - 6 tries in 8 games.

And that try save.  What an effort that was.

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1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

David Fifita of Oz is a physical weapon but I just find him lazy and lacking in footballing nous. I'm not a fan of favouring barn-storming monsters over footballing smarts that might bring their own rewards.

I understand your point here but I feel like I have to disagree a little.  Fifita often comes up with the most runs in a game and is singled out for criticism when the Titans lose because everyone knows he can be devastating.

I think he is a pretty good footballer with decent hands and a good brain but at the moment he is being badly used or badly coached... he takes the ball standing still far too often and isn't put into space by his halves.  Some of it is on him but I can't help but feel that if he were at the Panthers or Storm he would be unplayable. 

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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Posted (edited)

Another excellent game from Herbie today . He’s a starting centre for England end of discussion for me . Great offensively , tremendous footwork for his try today . Even more so his try saving tackle was outstanding . He just didn’t give up on that play , this also sums up his attitude 

Edited by DavidM
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14 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I understand your point here but I feel like I have to disagree a little.  Fifita often comes up with the most runs in a game and is singled out for criticism when the Titans lose because everyone knows he can be devastating.

I think he is a pretty good footballer with decent hands and a good brain but at the moment he is being badly used or badly coached... he takes the ball standing still far too often and isn't put into space by his halves.  Some of it is on him but I can't help but feel that if he were at the Panthers or Storm he would be unplayable. 

Perhaps. He is certainly a weapon with the ball in his hands.

All too often though, I just feel frustration watching him play.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Perhaps. He is certainly a weapon with the ball in his hands.

All too often though, I just feel frustration watching him play.

Don't get me wrong, I am with you.  I think the frustration is because he could be anything.   A few games ago, he picked up a ball at dummy half 25 m out and scored in the corner. Forwards shouldn't be able to do that.

The point I am making is that his effort is usually ok but I just want him to do what he can do on every play.

Edited by Dunbar
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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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10 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Another excellent game from Herbie today . He’s a starting centre for England end of discussion for me . Great offensively , tremendous footwork for his try today . Even more so his try saving tackle was outstanding . He just didn’t give up on that play , this also sums up his attitude 

He reminds me a little bit of Garry Connolly - fit, fast, enthusiastic and strong - not flashy every play but 7/8 out of 10 in most games.

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5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

He reminds me a little bit of Garry Connolly - fit, fast, enthusiastic and strong - not flashy every play but 7/8 out of 10 in most games.

Think he has more attacking qualities than Gary and if he’s half as good defensively we’ll have a good un.

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2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Think he has more attacking qualities than Gary and if he’s half as good defensively we’ll have a good un.

Yes probably agree, I think the comparison is just the no nonsense work rate. It actually showed up more last year when the Broncs were really struggling. His enthusiasm is exactly what the England team needs atm.

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If I were to compare Farnworth with an English centre from the past it would be Paul Newlove (I am not saying he is as good... at least not yet).

Both big, fast and athletic and possessed good footwork to beat a defender. 

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

If I were to compare Farnworth with an English centre from the past it would be Paul Newlove (I am not saying he is as good... at least not yet).

Both big, fast and athletic and possessed good footwork to beat a defender. 

That is a big call. Newlove was world class at 18. I watched his first 10-20 games as a professional and I have never seen anything like it in terms of strength and agility at that age.

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6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

That is a big call. Newlove was world class at 18. I watched his first 10-20 games as a professional and I have never seen anything like it in terms of strength and agility at that age.

Yep.  Which is why I specifically said he isn't as good.  Newlove was the best English centre and one of the best centres I have ever seen.

Just when it comes to similarities, that is who I would compare Farnworth to in physical attributes and the way he plays.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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45 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Don't get me wrong, I am with you.  I think the frustration is because he could be anything.   A few games ago, he picked up a ball at dummy half 25 m out and scored in the corner. Forwards shouldn't be able to do that.

The point I am making is that his effort is usually ok but I just want him to do what he can do on every play.

The bloke scored 17 tries from 14 starts last season in a team that just edged into the play offs. Would have been more if Holbrook hadnt already started messing with starting him on the bench.

There have been times in recent games (cowboys away, Penrith at home) when at times he has been pushed onto the wing!  Holbrook has lost the plot and needs to go. The team has no idea how to score points. Losing Taylor and Fogarty at the same time left them with nobody to run the game. The experiment with brimson in the halfs failed and Sexton needs to go back to tweed for a while. He looks lost, but there is no one else in the squad to play 7.

If you put the Titans halves in the Penrith or Melbourne teams they would lose every week.

 

 

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Just watched the Souths vs Brisbane game over my evening meal.

What an enjoyable game to watch! Reynolds - up against his old team - had the ball on a string and guided his team beautifully. Herbie at left centre had a wonderful game I thought. Assured, classy, confident, a threat. I loved his footwork and poise to take his try, but it's his all-round professional application that most impresses. He's just going really well and putting together the little things to do well.

Fun game on a Thursday night!

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Farnworth should be the first backline player on the team sheet for England if Wane is serious. Closely followed by Jackson Hastings politics aside.

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4 hours ago, jim_57 said:

Farnworth should be the first backline player on the team sheet for England if Wane is serious. Closely followed by Jackson Hastings politics aside.

"No half in the competition is averaging more touches per game this year than Hastings (80.4), according to Champion Data. St George Illawarra’s Ben Hunt (68.4) is second ahead of Cherry-Evans (64.8).

Hastings is so involved in running the Tigers, he is averaging near or more than double the possessions of the likes of gun playmakers Cameron Munster (47.4), Cody Walker (43.9) and Jarome Luai (37.5).

“The thing about Jacko is it’s not all about how many times he touches the ball, it’s about how in sync he is with the other members of the spine,” Tigers coach Michael Maguire says.

“You need to have that combination with your hooker, five-eighth and fullback. It’s what he does for the players around him like Brooksy, who he creates space for, which is so crucial to the way he plays the game.”

I think Hastings has got a point to prove coming back into the NRL, I think he could also very much have a point to prove if he got a call up for the England team. He`d be in everything.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Wigan are better this year without Hastings than with him. He seemed to take too much on his shoulders. 

If Hastings is selected for England, the key decision will be who the other half is.

Hastings has got decent size but not the pace to be a significant running threat, his value is organisation and direction.   He has made Wests a better team by taking the burden off Luke Brooks and allowed him to play to his strengths which are running the ball.

Who would do that job for England if Hastsings was bossing the team?

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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23 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

If Hastings is selected for England, the key decision will be who the other half is.

Hastings has got decent size but not the pace to be a significant running threat, his value is organisation and direction.   He has made Wests a better team by taking the burden off Luke Brooks and allowed him to play to his strengths which are running the ball.

Who would do that job for England if Hastsings was bossing the team?

Lomax 

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6 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

Lomax 

He would be the obvious choice.  Certainly Lomax does his best work attacking on the edge so I think they would be a decent combination.  Neither Lomax or Hastings have the electric pace to be an individual threat but I think they would be OK together.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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14 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Williams,  if he can get some form.

Lomax is a better edge passer but I think there would be more variety and threat with a controller and a runner.

I was thinking the same thing but you never hear him mentioned any more, but he was as good as anyone when he was over here and a smart football player as well. Agree on paper they look together.

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