Female pundits

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

I think the difficulty in having a female pundit is that no woman has ever been a professional player.

 

Female commentator? Fine.

So many parallels. Ever been on a Boeing 747? 

Designed and made almost exclusively by men, often piloted by women. 

More femail pundits and we might get more decent pundits

 

[Yorkshire Knight]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

Any examples of where it has taken a backseat to everything else?

Political environment being at the forefront. And then there’s the media like the BBC only employing minorities and women 

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

I don’t know how much clearer I need to make it. I’m all for meritocracy ie if the female pundit, whoever it may be, is good enough to be one then she should absolutely be one. I have no quarrels about that. My gripe is with people who want a female pundit simply because she is a female. Hope that clears it up for you 

And let me clear something up for you.  Nobody has suggested that we employ a female pundit just because she is female.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Political environment being at the forefront. And then there’s the media like the BBC only employing minorities and women 

The BBC only employ women and minorities?

That’s your example? Really?

[Yorkshire Knight]

6 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The BBC only employ women and minorities?

That’s your example? Really?

I mean you asked for examples

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Yorkshire Knight said:

I mean you asked for examples

Yes, a proper one, not one that’s quite easily proved to be rubbish

[Shadow]

1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

I think the difficulty in having a female pundit is that no woman has ever been a professional player.

 

Female commentator? Fine.

 

35 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There's a female pundit on some US baseball broadcasts. She is very good.

No woman alive has been a professional baseball player.

So, y'know, if they're good enough they don't have to have played either professionally or to a high standard. (To see the outcome of only selecting ex-players who won things, have a look at the ITV pundit panel whenever a football World Cup rolls round ...)

 

14 minutes ago, JohnM said:

So many parallels. Ever been on a Boeing 747? 

Designed and made almost exclusively by men, often piloted by women. 

More femail pundits and we might get more decent pundits

 

I know Wolford doesn't need me to defend him but I read his initial point as being that he doesn't have a problem with Female presenters or commentators but that as "Pundits" in other environments tend to be ex pro players then until we have ex professional female Rugby League players then being a Pundit is not possible.

 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Shadow said:

 

 

I know Wolford doesn't need me to defend him but I read his initial point as being that he doesn't have a problem with Female presenters or commentators but that as "Pundits" in other environments tend to be ex pro players then until we have ex professional female Rugby League players then being a Pundit is not possible.

 

There could be an argument that now we have a women’s Super League that there could well be a place for a female pundit, pundits don’t have to be ‘ex’ players.

But I do get the point.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

2 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

The females who do punditry for football are absolutely castigated online for their opinions, mainly, IMO, because they’re a woman. Sue Smith the latest, for saying a football team didn’t have a goalscorer, when in fact they have a man who’s scored 20+ this season. Yet Martin Keown hasn’t received the same bile and vitriol for saying “you don’t see that often” last night when Sergio Aguero got taken off the pitch, when he’s actually been taken off 17 times in 21 games this season.  

Agree with your point overall but I disagree that the two examples above weren't treated the same. The fact Matt Le Tissier called out a fellow pundit arguably makes the Keown example worse. Both cases were bad research and rightly called out by people IMO. 

 

 

[MZH]

2 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Sign of the times of the dog-whistle politics that we have nowadays that raising the possibility of having female pundits is described as a "leftist cause".

He has put his point across badly, but it's a perfectly valid one. We want to see the best presenters/pundits available. Whether they be men, women, black, white or from another planet. If that means we end up with all men, then so be it, true equality should mean that it's a level playing field, and your gender/background doesn't matter. It's like the South African sports teams needing to include a certain number of black players. Or the Rooney Rule in the US. That is not equality, your skin colour shouldn't make the blindest bit of difference.

There are some very good female sports presenters out there who I would love to be involved. On the flip side I can only assume that Angela Powers is still employed precisely because she is a woman, because she is one of the worst I have ever seen. 

[Chrispmartha]

To be fair to our sport we have had a female presence within our broadcasting for quite a while Tanya Arnold and Angela Powers (who I think is terrible by the way) have been presenters on the main broadcasting channels for a long time, and its also a real shame Claire Balding doesn’t do much (if anything) on RL anymore because she was excellent 

[Rupert Prince]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Or isn't it just a bit odd that with all the presenters in the world, we just still end up with white men?

Some women are nearly as good as men at a few things nowadays.

They can knit and shout the odds at the same time.

I'm all for anyone being good at their job, just as long as it's not tokenism.

Frankly I am not particularly interested in watching womens sport, even if its beach volleyball. 

[MZH]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

To be fair to our sport we have had a female presence within our broadcasting for quite a while Tanya Arnold and Angela Powers (who I think is terrible by the way) have been presenters on the main broadcasting channels for a long time, and its also a real shame Claire Balding doesn’t do much (if anything) on RL anymore because she was excellent 

What I liked about Claire Balding was her enthusiasm. It was a new sport to her and she didn't have much knowledge of it, but she is a talented presenter anyway and could have probably winged it. But she didn't, she really immersed herself in the sport and I think really came to love it.

[Rupert Prince]

21 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The BBC only employ women and minorities?

That’s your example? Really?

And they all have to be Scottish and Welsh too.  

(to be fair I am only being half serious)

(are you able to be half serious these days?)

[hunsletgreenandgold]

2 hours ago, HarrogateKnights said:

To be fair Fox Sports in Australia have been leading the way with that with Yvonne Sampson being the main presenter presenting the Night/UK morning NRL shows (such as Saturday Night Footy Show) in the build up to NRL games. They often have a touchline commentator too

You're confusing presenters/reporters with pundits - they're completely different. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, MZH said:

What I liked about Claire Balding was her enthusiasm. It was a new sport to her and she didn't have much knowledge of it, but she is a talented presenter anyway and could have probably winged it. But she didn't, she really immersed herself in the sport and I think really came to love it.

Yes, she was excellent, and I think she has been replaced with an equally excellent Mark Chapman. The BBC have done very well here.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

8 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Agree with your point overall but I disagree that the two examples above weren't treated the same. The fact Matt Le Tissier called out a fellow pundit arguably makes the Keown example worse. Both cases were bad research and rightly called out by people IMO. 

 

 

That’s it, though. There’s no “he shouldn’t be working in Football” and rubbish like that for Keown or any man, in fact, by the faceless social media crew. 

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, she was excellent, and I think she has been replaced with an equally excellent Mark Chapman. The BBC have done very well here.

Agreed I think Mark Chapman is a great presenter for Rugby League gets the balance of light heartedness and serious just right, plus he obviously has a great deal of affection for the game, hang on I thought the BBC didn’t employ men?

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

1 hour ago, Mr Wind Up said:

Dont care how knowledgable a woman is, it just doesnt sound right. Male commentators for the men’s game. 

I also prefer beer to wine, but I suspect that wont trigger anyone.

#MeToo seems somehow to have passed you by.

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

#MeToo seems somehow to have passed you by.

The last 30 years seem to have passed him by!

[Gerrumonside ref]

Three key things for me in a pundit: insight, research and the ability to communicate.

Add to the mix some passion and I’m all ears.

I would hope there is a strategy to look at screentesting and media training those in the women’s game that come closest to meeting those criteria.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

4 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

That’s it, though. There’s no “he shouldn’t be working in Football” and rubbish like that for Keown or any man, in fact, by the faceless social media crew. 

Oh there definitely is! Keown, Danny Murphy, Mark Lawrenson to name but a few (there's loads more) are regularly panned as being awful pundits. Like I said, I agree with the overall point here that there are people out there who just won't take the punditry of a woman purely because of that fact. But that shouldn't mean bad analysis/research by a female shouldn't be called out because you are then proving them sexists right by not holding them to the same standards. I'd like to think most people can tell the difference between the two. 

[Dunbar]

40 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Political environment being at the forefront. And then there’s the media like the BBC only employing minorities and women 

I find it both fascinating and depressing in equal measure that you think the media only employ women and minorities.  This OFCOM study from 2017 shows that "women, ethnic-minority groups and disabled people are all under-represented in the industry".

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2017/diversity-uk-television-industry

You see, the point is that minorities and women are still under represented in so many professions in the UK and where they are represented they are typically underpaid compared to their white male counterparts.  And yet, despite all of this evidence we have people like you who announce that the 'political environment' is stacked against the poor little white man.

[hrtbps]

4 hours ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Signs of the times when we have to pander to leftist causes to gain exposure. Don’t get me wrong, I’d have no problem with a female pundit but just having one for the sake of it to show how ‘progressive’ we are doesn’t sit well with me 

I'm sick of pandering to the lefties by [checks notes] employing women.

[JohnM]

Claire Balding spot on. She said RL fans needed to be less chippie. 

We need less of "a carnt spake"