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Lowdesert

Boycotting Aussie national anthem

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5 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

New Zealand always sing their Anthem in English & Maori, Why can't the Australian anthem to delete the offending lines (if any) be changed and sung in Pama-Nyungen, as a second verse as the Kiwi's do.

Australians all let us rejoice, For we are young and free; We’ve golden soil and wealth for toil; Our home is girt by sea; Our land abounds in nature’s gifts Of beauty rich and rare; In history’s page, let every stage Advance Australia Fair. In joyful strains then let us sing, Advance Australia Fair.

English NZ: God of Nations at Thy feet,
In the bonds of love we meet,
Hear our voices, we entreat,
God defend our free land.
Guard Pacific's triple star
From the shafts of strife and war,
Make her praises heard afar,
God defend New Zealand.

  Maori NZ: E Ihowā Atua,
O ngā iwi mātou rā
Āta whakarangona;
Me aroha noa
Kia hua ko te pai;
Kia tau tō atawhai;
Manaakitia mai
Aotearoa

O Lord, God,
Of all people
Listen to us,
Cherish us
May good flourish,
May your blessings flow
Defend Aotearoa

NZ has two official national anthems of equal standing. God Save The Queen is the other. 

Way too much god in the NZ set up.

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They are getting a lot of support for this. We haven’t had an all consuming nasty reaction similar to what occurred in the NFL.

When I was young the anthem excluded females and “Australia’s sons” was changed to “Australians all”. So huge numbers of us remember that change and don’t think further change is a big deal.

This is also RL land and I suspect the reaction in AFL land would be harsher simply because they are appalling in that sport re race relations.

Edited by Copa

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28 minutes ago, Copa said:

They are getting a lot of support for this. We haven’t had an all consuming nasty reaction similar to what occurred in the NFL.

When I was young the anthem excluded females and “Australian’s sons” was changed to “Australians all”. So huge numbers of us remember that change and don’t think further change is a big deal.

This is also RL land and I suspect the reaction in AFL land would be harsher simply because they are appalling in that sport re race relations.

We've just went through this in Canada recently.  In 'O Canada" they changed "in all thy sons command" to "in all of us command":

We are still in the change over mode so some people sing "Sons" (thats me), but it is catching on.  I'm for it...I was very much against it....HOWEVER...i  actually changed my opinion on the matter just this morning after listening to a presentation by a very intelligent 15 year old girl on the matter...her presentation was so good I changed my position...the young really support the changes...they are for it....they are our future.

Edited by Kayakman
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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

So frankly I think this whole discussion (and others like it) are all massive waste of time that should be totally and utterly ignored, and that the time could be and should be better spent, you know, actually fixing real problems that the country faces.

That’s the reaction we often hear in Australia when a minority group speaks up about something that they think is very important. 

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6 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Billy Connolly was right.

Our anthem (UK) it's the most de-motivating I have ever heard!

I had to sing God Save The Queen when I was a child. It’s an appalling hymn to have as a national anthem.

Singing about the supernatural boss of a major religion looking after an extremely wealthy unelected leader is appalling. When we see this sort of behaviour on documentaries filmed in dodgy countries or communities we are all aghast.

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1 hour ago, DavidM said:

Our anthem is the boring , demotivating snore fest around .Im not particularly keen on saving the queen anyway !! I agree , Billy Connolly was right . No one wants us to win anything ! And it looks ridiculous when it’s so slow everyone’s finished singing way before it’s over ! Get a much more up tempo stirring tone that at least you can tap a toe to ... like Italy’s . 100 mile an hour stuff with some high speed da da dum in the middle everyone can join in with . Rousing . We use the we’ll bore you to torpor ploy 

If you want a rousing Anthem look no further than across the Channel, there us no finer one in the world than when the La Marseillaise is sung with vigour in a 50/60,000 packed stadium. 

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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

Look I don't really care about the national anthem, whether they change it or not I don't care (in my opinion Advance Australia Fair never should have been the anthem in the first place), but there is nothing wrong with the line that "offends" them, and if you can find calling Australians "young and free" offensive then you can find ways to make anything offensive.

So frankly I think this whole discussion (and others like it) are all massive waste of time that should be totally and utterly ignored, and that the time could be and should be better spent, you know, actually fixing real problems that the country faces.

 

Agree totally. People will always find something to be offended with in the current climate, talk about capturing the zeitgeist. 

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I’m glad someone confirmed what the “offending line” is, cause it wasn’t obvious to me. In saying that, if the Aus anthem is not a true representation of the Aboriginal people then I think it should be changed, much like Australia Day. 

To say a national anthem is out of date is akin to thinking representing your country at anything is out of date isn’t it?

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1 hour ago, Copa said:

I had to sing God Save The Queen when I was a child. It’s an appalling hymn to have as a national anthem.

Singing about the supernatural boss of a major religion looking after an extremely wealthy unelected leader is appalling. When we see this sort of behaviour on documentaries filmed in dodgy countries or communities we are all aghast.

I'm a cub scout leader and we have to promise to do our duty to god and the queen, which as an atheist republican, I'm happy to do 🙂

La Marseillaise is a  pretty decent one, but for raising the hairs on your neck, you can't beat a Welsh crowd belting out Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau.

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This is such a beat up non story. Anyone can sing or not sing as they choose. We're not a dictatorship. I (a white Australian) haven't sung it since I was about 12 either. It's not a political stance, it's just simply it doesn't mean anything to me and I personally find the blind patriotism of anthems a bit embarrassing. But that's just me. Like the players, I still stand quietly for it, and still respect the choice of others who do sing. And all that aside, maybe rather than telling aboriginal people what they should and shouldn't choose to do, or be offended by, we should just let them make their own personal choices! And perhaps if the rest of us listen a little more and try and understand where they're coming from, we might learn something.

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7 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

This is such a beat up non story. Anyone can sing or not sing as they choose. We're not a dictatorship. I (a white Australian) haven't sung it since I was about 12 either. It's not a political stance, it's just simply it doesn't mean anything to me and I personally find the blind patriotism of anthems a bit embarrassing. But that's just me. Like the players, I still stand quietly for it, and still respect the choice of others who do sing. And all that aside, maybe rather than telling aboriginal people what they should and shouldn't choose to do, or be offended by, we should just let them make their own personal choices! And perhaps if the rest of us listen a little more and try and understand where they're coming from, we might learn something.

Aren’t they doing that and you’re telling them it’s a non story. 

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5 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Aren’t they doing that and you’re telling them it’s a non story. 

No I'm telling the journos and shock jocks trying to whip up a frenzy of fake controversy it's a non story.

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3 hours ago, Copa said:

That’s the reaction we often hear in Australia when a minority group speaks up about something that they think is very important. 

Maybe I'd have more sympathy if they were "speaking up" about something that actually mattered, like you know the higher rates of poverty, alcoholism, suicide, domestic violence, incarceration, infant deaths, etc, etc, in Aboriginal communities, or the lower average life expectancy, higher dropout rates, etc, etc, instead of nonsense about half a line in the national anthem.

This national anthem 'scandal' (like the Australia day stuff before it) is just nonsense being pushed by people with their priorities in totally the wrong place and media looking for clicks and/or to sell newspapers, which is perpetuating the never ending problem in this country of getting caught up on BS that is distracting from the real issues. 

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I don’t mind standing up for the NZ/Oz and any other national anthem that’s played at a sporting event (bar the British one). But if they change it i then might change my mind. I’d like to hear “Nagasaki Nightmare”

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What?

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27 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Maybe I'd have more sympathy if they were "speaking up" about something that actually mattered, like you know the higher rates of poverty, alcoholism, suicide, domestic violence, incarceration, infant deaths, etc, etc, in Aboriginal communities, or the lower average life expectancy, higher dropout rates, etc, etc, instead of nonsense about half a line in the national anthem.

This national anthem 'scandal' (like the Australia day stuff before it) is just nonsense being pushed by people with their priorities in totally the wrong place and media looking for clicks and/or to sell newspapers, which is perpetuating the never ending problem in this country of getting caught up on BS that is distracting from the real issues. 

They are saying “It’s an issue, please listen.” So just listen. It’s not hard.

They raise those other issues all the time too. They are frequently ignored then too.

For the non-Australians on here, this is how many indigenous issues in Australia are dismissed all the time.

Indigenous community: “We have an issue“

Wider Australian community: “STFU and stop bugging us with these things we don’t want to think about “

 

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44 minutes ago, Copa said:

They are saying “It’s an issue, please listen.” So just listen. It’s not hard.

How about no!

No I won't listen to people whinging about the national anthem while real problems are destroying "their" communities (really it is our communities, we should make no distinction between people based on race and culture, whether we like it or not we are all Australian now and as such we should all be part of one big Australian community). 

Nor will I be cowed into "listening" by somebody who is to afraid to tell them they are being stupid for fear of being called racist... 

44 minutes ago, Copa said:

They raise those other issues all the time too. They are frequently ignored then too.

Some do raise those other issues, never said that they didn't, however the people that raise those issues are quickly drowned out by the noise made by a minority of activists screaming about Australia day and other similar nonsense with the help of the media who are looking to create divisions to sell papers.

So no they aren't ignored, they're drowned out, and they are largely drowned out by people claiming to be working in their best interests.

44 minutes ago, Copa said:

For the non-Australians on here, this is how many indigenous issues in Australia are dismissed all the time.

For non-Australians on here, this is a large reason why 'indigenous issues' (most of them are really issues that effect everyone, but they disproportionately effect indigenous communities because of socio-economic and historical reasons) never get solved and as such exist in perpetuity, because way to many people like our good friend Copa here allow people to muddy the water with garbage to the point that nothing can actually be addressed for all the muck that has to be raked first.

 

Edited by The Great Dane

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I've lived on Aboriginal land for almost a year and over that time have learned a hell of a lot about their culture, traditions, and what they call 'dream stories'. It really is fascinating.

A section of Aboriginal people still feel marginalised in their own country and don't feel the anthem is fully respective of Australian history.

The line, 'for we are young and free' can only be attributed to the signing of the country's first constitution, and you have to consider Aboriginal people have walked this vast land for 65,000 years.

It wasn't that long ago that non-indigenous Aussies wouldn't be tried for killing Aboriginals (a typically nomadic people) for encroaching onto privately owned land.

For me, as an outsider: if you sing it you sing it. If you don't, you don't. I don't sing GSTQ any more. I don't think it makes me any less patriotic, I'm just no longer a royalist.

One thing I would urge all Australians to do is more forward positively and stop with the apologistic culture that seems to permeate whenever this sort of discussion occurs.

That's my thoughts on the subject anyway...

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7 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

If you want a rousing Anthem look no further than across the Channel, there us no finer one in the world than when the La Marseillaise is sung with vigour in a 50/60,000 packed stadium. 

France’s is pretty good. Russia’s is another that inspires.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AOAtz8xWM0w

God save the queen is good if you don’t understand English. If you do, it’s embarrassing.

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2 hours ago, HKR AWAY DAYS said:

It wasn't that long ago that non-indigenous Aussies wouldn't be tried for killing Aboriginals (a typically nomadic people) for encroaching onto privately owned land.

I’m old enough to have actually seen a large white mob gather outside an indigenous family’s home and yell foul abuse and threats well into the night.

I’ve also seen people in restaurants scream and yell that “Abos” should all be shot while simulating shooting a gun.

My father’s indigenous partner died in police custody and it was investigated in a royal commission.

Indigenous Australians are frequently treated like s*%t and some Australians just can’t handle indigenous people complaining or presenting examples of injustice. Those who hate it seem to only want the complaints to be on their terms not on the terms of the indigenous person or community complaining. They won’t listen at all. They want the complaints to just go away..... but they won’t go away at all.

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6 hours ago, Copa said:

I’m old enough to have actually seen a large white mob gather outside an indigenous family’s home and yell foul abuse and threats well into the night.

I’ve also seen people in restaurants scream and yell that “Abos” should all be shot while simulating shooting a gun.

My father’s indigenous partner died in police custody and it was investigated in a royal commission.

Indigenous Australians are frequently treated like s*%t and some Australians just can’t handle indigenous people complaining or presenting examples of injustice. Those who hate it seem to only want the complaints to be on their terms not on the terms of the indigenous person or community complaining. They won’t listen at all. They want the complaints to just go away..... but they won’t go away at all.

May I ask how old are you?

If you prefer not to answer I understand.

My Wife was born in Australia from mainly Scottish and some Aboriginal heritage.


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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7 minutes ago, Allora said:

May I ask how old are you?

If you prefer not to answer I understand.

My Wife was born in Australia from mainly Scottish and some Aboriginal heritage.

I was born in the 1970s.

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5 minutes ago, Copa said:

I was born in the 1970s.

I found that Australia was roughly 10-15 years behind Canada when dealing with indigenous issues when I lived there...still are.  If you want a glimpse of the future for Australia, take a look at what currently is happening in Canada.  Its pretty clear that it is all going to play out roughly the same way.

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2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I found that Australia was roughly 10-15 years behind Canada when dealing with indigenous issues when I lived there...still are.  If you want a glimpse of the future for Australia, take a look at what currently is happening in Canada.  Its pretty clear that it is all going to play out roughly the same way.

When I lived in the US there was an American made documentary on TV about how white Australians view indigenous Australians. They did a lot of interviews with people on the street and the attitudes displayed were overtly and unashamedly racist. Actual racist terms were used by people lacking any self awareness. This was on a major tv network in the US. 

A loud minority of Australians just want indigenous people to “know their place” and to stop complaining because, the theme goes, if you give them and inch they’ll take a mile.

They used to get hysterical that they’d “steal” all of our land if they got land rights, now they get hysterical about indigenous people and sympathisers suggesting the date for the  national day should not be on the date many indigenous people think the invasion began.

This was published today by news limited in Australia... 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/origin/leave-our-aussie-anthem-alone/news-story/93ad110c3b629627ed83e62eb95574bc

the general theme of the article is that indigenous Australians are eternal complainers, should not be listened to as they’ll never be happy and that they should be ignored. The author has actually hijacked indigenous injustice and exclusion to selfishly shoehorn their own politics into the debate.... when all they should do is just genuinely listen.. 

 

 

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