20-21 Jul: The Betfred Championship Match Thread

[Konkrete]

Well, what a terrific game at York yesterday.  A marvellous advert for the Championship with over 4k in attendance, of which the Bulls contingent was massive.  And very very loud.  My new York family enjoyed it very much and hopefully they'll pay a few more visits when York are playing other teams.

The result itself was a massive disappointment with our failure to convert goals ultimately the reason for defeat.  Two missed just to the side of the posts and a 5/4 tries scored advantage to the Bulls.  York's first two tries were from an intercept and a knock-on from us whilst exiting our in-goal.  Both absolutely fine, but at the same time real shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stuff.  We continue to beat ourselves so often.

Good luck to York.  Got some good mojo going on there and hopefully it'll continue to build.

 

 

Before you read this next bit know that I'm setting out to try to explain the reaction to some of the things that occurred.  Doesn't mean I necessarily agree....

 

 

 

On the controversial stuff then I think there's a few comments to make to try to explain some of the reaction.  It's clear from the photos that the York official was timing the game when it should have been the RFL one.  The game finished 20-30 seconds early with Bradford a point down and pouring forward on the attack.  No-one can say what might have happened, but the game should always last the allotted time and the nominated official should be in charge.  I don't think there can be any argument about that, it was clearly wrong.

The head injury, whereby York had exhausted all their subs, was a bit of a strange one too.  The doctor/physio who attended the player on the pitch didn't think the injury was a head injury requiring a HIT at the time.  He walked the player a quarter of the way round the pitch without any issue when he suddenly caught sight of James Ford literally (and I do mean literally) jumping up and down an patting his head a full 40+meters away.  The doctor/physio then pats his own head and the fourth official immediately allows York to put on a replacement.  I think that this is what upset John Kear - James Ford was seemingly leading/instructing the doctor/physio not the other way around, and only a few meters away from JK himself.

This was compounded for JK when, just before, Rhys Evans was knocked out by a supposed (I didn't see it, need to see the replay) high shot, dropping the ball as he hit the ground.  Instead of a penalty the referee awards York a scrum from which they score from immediately into the right centre position that Evans had just vacated seconds before.

The Ethan Ryan 'no-try', well, at the time you have to trust the officials closest to the action don't you?  So the TJ rules that the player was in touch.  No try, fair enough, might be different on replay but we take the decision at the time.  But again, what would have incensed John Kear was that exactly the same thing happened last week in the DRAW against Swinton, in exactly the same part of the field and the referee over-ruled the TJ, even though the referee was on his a rse at the time as he'd fallen over.

 

Like I say.  Just laying out what might be behind some of the frustrations.  Don't @ me!

[JonT]

3 hours ago, Konkrete said:

Well, what a terrific game at York yesterday.  A marvellous advert for the Championship with over 4k in attendance, of which the Bulls contingent was massive.  And very very loud.  My new York family enjoyed it very much and hopefully they'll pay a few more visits when York are playing other teams.

The result itself was a massive disappointment with our failure to convert goals ultimately the reason for defeat.  Two missed just to the side of the posts and a 5/4 tries scored advantage to the Bulls.  York's first two tries were from an intercept and a knock-on from us whilst exiting our in-goal.  Both absolutely fine, but at the same time real shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stuff.  We continue to beat ourselves so often.

Good luck to York.  Got some good mojo going on there and hopefully it'll continue to build.

 

 

Before you read this next bit know that I'm setting out to try to explain the reaction to some of the things that occurred.  Doesn't mean I necessarily agree....

 

 

 

On the controversial stuff then I think there's a few comments to make to try to explain some of the reaction.  It's clear from the photos that the York official was timing the game when it should have been the RFL one.  The game finished 20-30 seconds early with Bradford a point down and pouring forward on the attack.  No-one can say what might have happened, but the game should always last the allotted time and the nominated official should be in charge.  I don't think there can be any argument about that, it was clearly wrong.

The head injury, whereby York had exhausted all their subs, was a bit of a strange one too.  The doctor/physio who attended the player on the pitch didn't think the injury was a head injury requiring a HIT at the time.  He walked the player a quarter of the way round the pitch without any issue when he suddenly caught sight of James Ford literally (and I do mean literally) jumping up and down an patting his head a full 40+meters away.  The doctor/physio then pats his own head and the fourth official immediately allows York to put on a replacement.  I think that this is what upset John Kear - James Ford was seemingly leading/instructing the doctor/physio not the other way around, and only a few meters away from JK himself.

This was compounded for JK when, just before, Rhys Evans was knocked out by a supposed (I didn't see it, need to see the replay) high shot, dropping the ball as he hit the ground.  Instead of a penalty the referee awards York a scrum from which they score from immediately into the right centre position that Evans had just vacated seconds before.

The Ethan Ryan 'no-try', well, at the time you have to trust the officials closest to the action don't you?  So the TJ rules that the player was in touch.  No try, fair enough, might be different on replay but we take the decision at the time.  But again, what would have incensed John Kear was that exactly the same thing happened last week in the DRAW against Swinton, in exactly the same part of the field and the referee over-ruled the TJ, even though the referee was on his a rse at the time as he'd fallen over.

 

Like I say.  Just laying out what might be behind some of the frustrations.  Don't @ me!

A fair summation Koncrete except that the doctor first indicated a head injury when he was attending the player behind the posts. The signal was repeated when he reached the touchline.

[Lowdesert]

3 hours ago, Konkrete said:

Well, what a terrific game at York yesterday.  A marvellous advert for the Championship with over 4k in attendance, of which the Bulls contingent was massive.  And very very loud.  My new York family enjoyed it very much and hopefully they'll pay a few more visits when York are playing other teams.

The result itself was a massive disappointment with our failure to convert goals ultimately the reason for defeat.  Two missed just to the side of the posts and a 5/4 tries scored advantage to the Bulls.  York's first two tries were from an intercept and a knock-on from us whilst exiting our in-goal.  Both absolutely fine, but at the same time real shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stuff.  We continue to beat ourselves so often.

Good luck to York.  Got some good mojo going on there and hopefully it'll continue to build.

 

 

Before you read this next bit know that I'm setting out to try to explain the reaction to some of the things that occurred.  Doesn't mean I necessarily agree....

 

 

 

On the controversial stuff then I think there's a few comments to make to try to explain some of the reaction.  It's clear from the photos that the York official was timing the game when it should have been the RFL one.  The game finished 20-30 seconds early with Bradford a point down and pouring forward on the attack.  No-one can say what might have happened, but the game should always last the allotted time and the nominated official should be in charge.  I don't think there can be any argument about that, it was clearly wrong.

The head injury, whereby York had exhausted all their subs, was a bit of a strange one too.  The doctor/physio who attended the player on the pitch didn't think the injury was a head injury requiring a HIT at the time.  He walked the player a quarter of the way round the pitch without any issue when he suddenly caught sight of James Ford literally (and I do mean literally) jumping up and down an patting his head a full 40+meters away.  The doctor/physio then pats his own head and the fourth official immediately allows York to put on a replacement.  I think that this is what upset John Kear - James Ford was seemingly leading/instructing the doctor/physio not the other way around, and only a few meters away from JK himself.

This was compounded for JK when, just before, Rhys Evans was knocked out by a supposed (I didn't see it, need to see the replay) high shot, dropping the ball as he hit the ground.  Instead of a penalty the referee awards York a scrum from which they score from immediately into the right centre position that Evans had just vacated seconds before.

The Ethan Ryan 'no-try', well, at the time you have to trust the officials closest to the action don't you?  So the TJ rules that the player was in touch.  No try, fair enough, might be different on replay but we take the decision at the time.  But again, what would have incensed John Kear was that exactly the same thing happened last week in the DRAW against Swinton, in exactly the same part of the field and the referee over-ruled the TJ, even though the referee was on his a rse at the time as he'd fallen over.

 

Like I say.  Just laying out what might be behind some of the frustrations.  Don't @ me!

Sticking the microphone under the coaches nose immediately after the game can produce anything.  Mick knows that.

[HaxbyKnight]

Fair points Knokrete, and like you say it was a terrific game. But I don't think Bradford were pouring forward, they were in their own 20 when the hooter went, and secondly, what happened last week, or what happens next week is irrelevant to yesterday. 

[GUBRATS]

Can the Bulls pull back the 4 points to make the top 5 ?

[fevtom]

York have a tough end to the season with games against Toronto, Leigh, Fev and Halifax to come. For that reason I was worried about them finishing in 6th behind Bradford but after this weekend i’m changing my prediction.

1) Toronto

2) Toulouse

3) Leigh

4) Featherstone

5) York (4th if they beat Fev)

 

[TrueBull]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Can the Bulls pull back the 4 points to make the top 5 ?

Like most teams, I'd say all winnable games left. But tricky. Would require Bulls to reduce error count and increase set completion. So unlikely going on the inconsistency seen this season.

 

[Wolford6]

46 minutes ago, TrueBull said:

Like most teams, I'd say all winnable games left. But tricky. Would require Bulls to reduce error count and increase set completion. So unlikely going on the inconsistency seen this season.

 

We won't win anything playing two props and three hookers.

[Konkrete]

3 hours ago, HaxbyKnight said:

Fair points Knokrete, and like you say it was a terrific game. But I don't think Bradford were pouring forward, they were in their own 20 when the hooter went, and secondly, what happened last week, or what happens next week is irrelevant to yesterday. 

It’s very relevant to JKs frustrations. Which is what I was trying to explain (not justify).

[TIWIT]

6 hours ago, Konkrete said:

Before you read this next bit know that I'm setting out to try to explain the reaction to some of the things that occurred.  Doesn't mean I necessarily agree....

 

 

 

On the controversial stuff then I think there's a few comments to make to try to explain some of the reaction.  It's clear from the photos that the York official was timing the game when it should have been the RFL one.  The game finished 20-30 seconds early with Bradford a point down and pouring forward on the attack.  No-one can say what might have happened, but the game should always last the allotted time and the nominated official should be in charge.  I don't think there can be any argument about that, it was clearly wrong.

The head injury, whereby York had exhausted all their subs, was a bit of a strange one too.  The doctor/physio who attended the player on the pitch didn't think the injury was a head injury requiring a HIT at the time.  He walked the player a quarter of the way round the pitch without any issue when he suddenly caught sight of James Ford literally (and I do mean literally) jumping up and down an patting his head a full 40+meters away.  The doctor/physio then pats his own head and the fourth official immediately allows York to put on a replacement.  I think that this is what upset John Kear - James Ford was seemingly leading/instructing the doctor/physio not the other way around, and only a few meters away from JK himself.

This was compounded for JK when, just before, Rhys Evans was knocked out by a supposed (I didn't see it, need to see the replay) high shot, dropping the ball as he hit the ground.  Instead of a penalty the referee awards York a scrum from which they score from immediately into the right centre position that Evans had just vacated seconds before.

The Ethan Ryan 'no-try', well, at the time you have to trust the officials closest to the action don't you?  So the TJ rules that the player was in touch.  No try, fair enough, might be different on replay but we take the decision at the time.  But again, what would have incensed John Kear was that exactly the same thing happened last week in the DRAW against Swinton, in exactly the same part of the field and the referee over-ruled the TJ, even though the referee was on his a rse at the time as he'd fallen over.

 

Like I say.  Just laying out what might be behind some of the frustrations.  Don't @ me!

Milking the clock with fake injuries is a part of all sports. Nothing to be done about it if the referee buys it.

The clock issue however strikes at the integrity of the sport itself. You can no more have the official timekeeper be an employee of one of the teams - or indeed any team in the competition - than the referee or other on-field officials. The RFL should investigate immediately and if it turns out to be correct then a stiff penalty should be applied, such as replaying the entire game. It is almost irrelevant if the hooter went off too soon, the guy running the clock shouldn't have been for precisely the possibility of that happening.

[Lowdesert]

6 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Milking the clock with fake injuries is a part of all sports. Nothing to be done about it if the referee buys it.

The clock issue however strikes at the integrity of the sport itself. You can no more have the official timekeeper be an employee of one of the teams - or indeed any team in the competition - than the referee or other on-field officials. The RFL should investigate immediately and if it turns out to be correct then a stiff penalty should be applied, such as replaying the entire game. It is almost irrelevant if the hooter went off too soon, the guy running the clock shouldn't have been for precisely the possibility of that happening.

Right now we’re looking at proof this all happened.  Already the ‘pouring forward’ comment has been challenged plus the ‘in touch’ accusation.  I think it was Mick Gledhill on his twitter account asking for clarity on 20 seconds missing which has now developed into 20 or 30 seconds.  Any advance on 30 seconds?

What will be said if the head knock turns out to be koshaand the player misses a game due to concussion protocols?

[Gav Wilson]

36 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Right now we’re looking at proof this all happened.  Already the ‘pouring forward’ comment has been challenged plus the ‘in touch’ accusation.  I think it was Mick Gledhill on his twitter account asking for clarity on 20 seconds missing which has now developed into 20 or 30 seconds.  Any advance on 30 seconds?

What will be said if the head knock turns out to be koshaand the player misses a game due to concussion protocols?

Aye, he only got out of hospital this morning so there's a chance he might miss Barrow away. Thankfully he has two weeks to recover.

This was what the doctor was first greeted with. A HIA in this situation is not that shocking. I'm not sure what Bradford fans think we would gain by bringing off a centre with 100+ SL games to his name and playing a hooker at centre for the last five minutes instead.

 

The timekeeper was independent and selected by the RFL.

 

[HaxbyKnight]

Maybe whoever did this will be charged by the disciplinary committee, same to the two players who tipped York players on their heads. Not heard any moans about that. How ironic if they picked up suspensions. 

[DEANO]

55 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Aye, he only got out of hospital this morning so there's a chance he might miss Barrow away. Thankfully he has two weeks to recover.

This was what the doctor was first greeted with. A HIA in this situation is not that shocking. I'm not sure what Bradford fans think we would gain by bringing off a centre with 100+ SL games to his name and playing a hooker at centre for the last five minutes instead.

 

The timekeeper was independent and selected by the RFL.

 

Nice one gav. Some Bradford fans have asked what we have against them. The fact that they can’t accept defeat is one of the reasons. John Kear the other

[HaxbyKnight]

The hooter going 20 seconds early must be right. Mick Gledhill says so. What a joke he is.

[Konkrete]

.

 

[spanishknight]

2 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

Aye, he only got out of hospital this morning so there's a chance he might miss Barrow away. Thankfully he has two weeks to recover.

This was what the doctor was first greeted with. A HIA in this situation is not that shocking. I'm not sure what Bradford fans think we would gain by bringing off a centre with 100+ SL games to his name and playing a hooker at centre for the last five minutes instead.

 

The timekeeper was independent and selected by the RFL.

 

Thank you Gav, suppose Kear will be moaning about something  new now that hes been proved wrong again.

[TrueBull]

A 15 minute concussion assessment is for concussion. A bleeding nose is not an automatic indication of concussion, just as concussion can be suspected without an obvious head injury.

[dkw]

57 minutes ago, TrueBull said:

A 15 minute concussion assessment is for concussion. A bleeding nose is not an automatic indication of concussion, just as concussion can be suspected without an obvious head injury.

It's almost as if an actual doctor was in position to make a real time assessment, maybe he should have asked kear for his opinion first, seeing as though he obviously is a doctor too, along with seemingly loads of Bradford fans. 

[TrueBull]

14 minutes ago, dkw said:

It's almost as if an actual doctor was in position to make a real time assessment

That was my point mate. Obviously not well made.  A photograph of a man with a bleeding nose is irrelevant. Concussion is dizziness, memory loss, blurred vision, nausea etc. I’m not entirely sure how a photograph proves he was dizzy. Although lots of people on here think that photograph is some sort of trump card. It’s completely irrelevant. The doc makes that call. 

[spanishknight]

1 minute ago, TrueBull said:

That was my point mate. Obviously not well made.  A photograph of a man with a bleeding nose is irrelevant. Concussion is dizziness, memory loss, blurred vision, nausea etc. I’m not entirely sure how a photograph proves he was dizzy. Although lots of people on here think that photograph is some sort of trump card. It’s completely irrelevant. The doc makes that call. 

You lost to a better team coached by a better coach, get over it and move on.

[Simon Hall]

1 minute ago, TrueBull said:

The doc makes that call. 

Which he did. Now that’s been questioned by John Kear and a load of Bradford fans. Ridiculous. 

[TrueBull]

3 minutes ago, spanishknight said:

You lost to a better team coached by a better coach, get over it and move on.

I accept you conceding you have nothing to add to a discussion on concussion, you may step out of the room

[TrueBull]

It’s the second hit that can kill. One of the juniors at my amateur club died many yrs ago from concussion. 

If the doc thinks he has a primary concussion symptom, he’s concussed, no assessment necessary, doesn’t get back on the pitch. Technically doesn’t need an interchange. 

If he has secondary concussion symptoms, then he gets an assessment, passes that, the interchange can be reversed. 

It all comes down to concussion symptoms and what the doc assessed him as and communicating that to the match commissioner 

 

[dkw]

28 minutes ago, TrueBull said:

That was my point mate. Obviously not well made.  A photograph of a man with a bleeding nose is irrelevant. Concussion is dizziness, memory loss, blurred vision, nausea etc. I’m not entirely sure how a photograph proves he was dizzy. Although lots of people on here think that photograph is some sort of trump card. It’s completely irrelevant. The doc makes that call. 

And he made the call, which has been questioned by people with no knowledge of the situation, even worse the doctors professional integrity has been questioned by a head coach in public, which is disgusting and I hope he gets punished for it.