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McDermott: Give us some salary cap leeway

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23 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Money takes you to SL!

Yes it can as proved by TWP.

The game has never been in such a good position to be more attractive to new club entities and investors in existing clubs.  But the Achilles heel for RL that there is only one promotion spot that may deter investors who want their club to be playing at the highest possible level but have to compete with a similar SC against relegated clubs that might stay full time or a number of other new or existing clubs with new investors.

IMHO the game needs a more innovative approach that welcomes new investors and protects existing full time clubs giving them the opportunity to grow without fear of relegation.

My suggestion would be a move back to a licensing system for 14 clubs initially and every two or three years it would increase by 2 clubs until it reached a 20 team competition.

This would give a new team, or an existing CL1 or Championship team 2 or 3 years to develop the infrastructure of a club before submitting their application.

Once we 20 teams - after 6 to 9 years of licensing - we could then split into 2 leagues of ten and again every two or three years a team could be added to each league.

If you synch the TV deals with the Licensing cycle then it may lead to greater revenue as everyone can see how the game is developing.

I have put my head above the parapet so I am prepared to be shot at!

 

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2 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Yes it can as proved by TWP.

The game has never been in such a good position to be more attractive to new club entities and investors in existing clubs.  But the Achilles heel for RL that there is only one promotion spot that may deter investors who want their club to be playing at the highest possible level but have to compete with a similar SC against relegated clubs that might stay full time or a number of other new or existing clubs with new investors.

IMHO the game needs a more innovative approach that welcomes new investors and protects existing full time clubs giving them the opportunity to grow without fear of relegation.

My suggestion would be a move back to a licensing system for 14 clubs initially and every two or three years it would increase by 2 clubs until it reached a 20 team competition.

This would give a new team, or an existing CL1 or Championship team 2 or 3 years to develop the infrastructure of a club before submitting their application.

Once we 20 teams - after 6 to 9 years of licensing - we could then split into 2 leagues of ten and again every two or three years a team could be added to each league.

If you synch the TV deals with the Licensing cycle then it may lead to greater revenue as everyone can see how the game is developing.

I have put my head above the parapet so I am prepared to be shot at!

 

Lamport wouldn’t meet the criteria for licensing.

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2 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Yes it can as proved by TWP.

The game has never been in such a good position to be more attractive to new club entities and investors in existing clubs.  But the Achilles heel for RL that there is only one promotion spot that may deter investors who want their club to be playing at the highest possible level but have to compete with a similar SC against relegated clubs that might stay full time or a number of other new or existing clubs with new investors.

IMHO the game needs a more innovative approach that welcomes new investors and protects existing full time clubs giving them the opportunity to grow without fear of relegation.

My suggestion would be a move back to a licensing system for 14 clubs initially and every two or three years it would increase by 2 clubs until it reached a 20 team competition.

This would give a new team, or an existing CL1 or Championship team 2 or 3 years to develop the infrastructure of a club before submitting their application.

Once we 20 teams - after 6 to 9 years of licensing - we could then split into 2 leagues of ten and again every two or three years a team could be added to each league.

If you synch the TV deals with the Licensing cycle then it may lead to greater revenue as everyone can see how the game is developing.

I have put my head above the parapet so I am prepared to be shot at!

 

To be honest I've always thought that RL in the northern hemisphere at least is a relatively cheap gig for any budding millionaire. Max circa £2 million a season (unless you want to sign marquee's etc) investment into the playing squad and maybe 1 million more for renting facilities and off field staff etc. Millionaires waste far more on far less and that's before they take into account revenues from tickets, merch and sponsorships for example.

I do think once we reach a stage where over half the championship is fully professional (or at least nearly professional), there may be an argument for a reshuffling of the league structure, but we aren't there yet. 

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6 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Lamport wouldn’t meet the criteria for licensing.

What criteria? It seems to be able to shift like the wind and be held accountable to a promise (or 3)

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

What criteria? It seems to be able to shift like the wind and be held accountable to a promise (or 3)

It is I agree. Should licensing be introduced again would see an end to them.

Or would they give dispensation?

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5 minutes ago, SL17 said:

It is I agree. Should licensing be introduced again would see an end to them.

Or would they give dispensation?

The SL (chairmen) have consistently shown willingness to give dispensation to various aspects so long as they are not either financially affected or are in a position to gain extra money (a la Bradford's central funding).

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39 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

To be honest I've always thought that RL in the northern hemisphere at least is a relatively cheap gig for any budding millionaire. Max circa £2 million a season (unless you want to sign marquee's etc) investment into the playing squad and maybe 1 million more for renting facilities and off field staff etc. Millionaires waste far more on far less and that's before they take into account revenues from tickets, merch and sponsorships for example.

I do think once we reach a stage where over half the championship is fully professional (or at least nearly professional), there may be an argument for a reshuffling of the league structure, but we aren't there yet. 

You might want to double your estimate of the Max cost.  The Wolfpack spent 21 million C$ during their first three seasons which is 12 million £, or an average of 4 million £ per season.

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11 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

You might want to double your estimate of the Max cost.  The Wolfpack spent 21 million C$ during their first three seasons which is 12 million £, or an average of 4 million £ per season.

In fairness they were having to travel transatlantic and their main sponsors were paying them "in kind" with flights. 

Regardless I put it at max 2 mill for the squad (unless you wanted to used marquees) and circa 1 mill for everything else, so I'm not far off.

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43 minutes ago, NOS4A2 said:

Argyle can spend his money how he sees fit, but to fork out a reported £2,500,000 a year on one player and then ask TO SPEND MORE over and above the current rules because his current squad isn't adequate is certainly worth pointing out.

They have not forked out that much on the cap though. Once they pay a marquee player over the £150,000 threshold then the final amount is irrelevant.

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4 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

As Eddie pointed out TWP have gone from nothing to SL in 3 years; they have generated more column inches/social media and discussion amongst RL and non-RL followers than all of the other SL clubs combined; the owner has pumped in $21m and they signed arguably the most recognised rugby player on the planet.  

So I assume all that hasn’t impressed you?  Unlike Cas who have given out bull excrement for many years about moving to a new ground.  I know as I am a Cas supporter.

It comes down to a simple question ‘What is the best for RL in the long term’.  Is it seeing TWP as a possible catalyst that may open greater opportunities for the game at a national and NH level, or, do we flatly deny TWP any wriggle-room and see how it goes.

I can understand the jealousy that TWP have caused because their owner has more money than any other owner, especially Cas, but I do not want to see decisions taken at a strategic level to be based on jealousy.

I know the Cas ground is a dump but they can play there any day they want, any time of the year.

I'm just a bit tired of the nonsense emanating from the Toronto camp. We've been here before with Paris, Celtic Crusaders, Gateshead. I hope Toronto do well but I am a bit cynical. I'd rather see a Canadian league established with the money being spent. I'd love to see a couple of Canadians in the squad. 

But already McDermott wants different rules for Toronto. The season hasn't even started yet.

And reading this thread (not you Adelaide T) but I'm reminded why I don't post here much. Why can't someone express an opinion opposing someone else without being labelled an idiot and anti-Toronto straight away? This used to be the more gentlemanly forum...

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19 minutes ago, Cake Tiger said:

I know the Cas ground is a dump but they can play there any day they want, any time of the year.

I'm just a bit tired of the nonsense emanating from the Toronto camp. We've been here before with Paris, Celtic Crusaders, Gateshead. I hope Toronto do well but I am a bit cynical. I'd rather see a Canadian league established with the money being spent. I'd love to see a couple of Canadians in the squad. 

But already McDermott wants different rules for Toronto. The season hasn't even started yet.

And reading this thread (not you Adelaide T) but I'm reminded why I don't post here much. Why can't someone express an opinion opposing someone else without being labelled an idiot and anti-Toronto straight away? This used to be the more gentlemanly forum...

I don’t mind anyone expressing a point of view different from mine as that what makes the discussion interesting.

My response to you was that I believe TWP have done things that have impressed me and that I see no comparison with Paris, Celtic Crusaders or Gateshead as TWP have the financial clout and backroom organisation to form a solid operation and have increased crowds each year.

People have said on here before why don’t they form a Canadian League. But they are the only professional team in Canada.  Who is responsible for creating other teams.  Could it be that other teams will be formed in Canada and the end game is for TWP to return to a Canadian/North American League when their are a sufficient number of teams? Who knows

We also have to be realistic about home grown Canadians in the squad.  Melbourne Storm, one of the most professional teams in the game have been around for 20 years and have hardly brought through any Victorian born players.

 

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I do have some sympathy for TWP's position I must admit. At first I dismissed the thought of dispensation, however I suppose we need to ask is it reasonable to expect a new club on the other side of the world to have an Academy team that they can supplement the 1st team squad with like other clubs do? I'm not sure it can be done so easily just yet. 

I think there maybe needs to be some concessions around DR and Loan players, to cater for the unique circumstances they face. 

On the flip side, maybe had they invested in London Skolars like they said they would they would have had a youth partnership by now, and Salford also don't have an Academy IIRC so not sure whether they would be happy with concessions for TWP. 

I'd be happy with something like an allowance of £100k for DR or Loan players on top of their cap

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Can we cut out the 'flat capper, jealous, hater' etc tagss every time somebody says anything that doesn't celebrate TWP? 

People are actually allowed to have a negative view of this, particularly if they are presenting it rationally. Sure there are a couple of people who are going over the top, but I'd say we are literally talking maybe 2.

The attacks on any critics is becoming completely over the top and is suppressing discussion and debate. I went back to an old TWP thread recently and the tone was very different and more enjoyable sensible discussion. The biggest change hasn't come from those classed as critics. 

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2 things bother me about this 

1 why don't they know for certain if they are or aren't at/over the cap now ?

2 why is this request happening now , rather than 12 months ago ? , You didn't need to be a SL coach to realise that their squad size was nowhere near big enough to get through a SL season , yes because of the quality of their players they could play players out of position in the Championship and still beat everybody , but that wasn't going to happen when they went up 

 

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

2 things bother me about this 

1 why don't they know for certain if they are or aren't at/over the cap now ?

2 why is this request happening now , rather than 12 months ago ? , You didn't need to be a SL coach to realise that their squad size was nowhere near big enough to get through a SL season , yes because of the quality of their players they could play players out of position in the Championship and still beat everybody , but that wasn't going to happen when they went up 

 

To be fair, McDermott won't be managing the cap himself and it does say they are engaged with the RFL so this may have been going on for a while. 

We do also know that the likes of McDermott and Noble enjoy a good story, less so about the detail or whether things are exactly true. 

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4 minutes ago, NOS4A2 said:

Melbourne storm cheated the salary cap, so I suppose Toronto asking beforehand is a step in the right direction. Toronto are an English side playing in a Canadian City. Nobody (I believe) hates them, it's just every time you ask "why.... What's the point"? you get called a flat capped anti-expansionist, when I have to say I think it's a valid question 

Do you also endlessly slate Melbourne for being a NSW side in a Victorian City? Or the Tongan national team, they are full of Australians and played their games in Australia. 

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19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, McDermott won't be managing the cap himself and it does say they are engaged with the RFL so this may have been going on for a while. 

We do also know that the likes of McDermott and Noble enjoy a good story, less so about the detail or whether things are exactly true. 

No he won't , but who is ? , Surely they would have informed him one way or another ?

It seems to me to be a situation where if you wait to the last minute , you then can blackmail your way to getting what you want , what if there is no dispensation ? , Will we see a SL club putting out a bare 13 players for a game ? , A very real possibility IMO

 

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Koucash wanted the same dispensation too.  The rfl shouldn't just change the rules for one team.

They made some questionable signings before re imports 

This is just rocking the boat imo 

Any changes won't be for this year so wolfpack have to make sure they win games 

 

Edited by aj1908

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1 hour ago, NOS4A2 said:

Neither, although both those sides have delivered a tangible benefit to the game. Melbourne by setting up camp in the 2nd biggest metro market and enemy territory. A project backed by the games owners and broadcast partners I would add. Tonga, by shaking up the international scene, regardless of birthplace.....and delivering some great crowds in the World Cup

Toronto on the other hand are a rich blokes toy who have bought 3 shields and 2 promotions and who have now asked to be allowed to spend more than other teams in the league so they can buy success there too. 

Read back my last paragraph and explain how I am wrong. 

Toronto have done the same as Melbourne

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1 hour ago, NOS4A2 said:

Melbourne storm cheated the salary cap, so I suppose Toronto asking beforehand is a step in the right direction. Toronto are an English side playing in a Canadian City. Nobody (I believe) hates them, it's just every time you ask "why.... What's the point"? you get called a flat capped anti-expansionist, when I have to say I think it's a valid question 

28 posts so far

26 being negative on Toronto 

 

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I have nothing against Toronto or expansion but this seems to be a fairly simple issue to me - they have mismanaged their player contracts and the salary cap (not Superleague, the RFL or anybody else) and they are now seeking a way around this.

We could argue all day about the difficulties Toronto face over other clubs but what seems clear is that they knew what they were getting into and they shouldn't be stamping their feet about it a few weeks from the start of the season. Just my opinion.

Edited by LR23
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2 minutes ago, LR23 said:

I have nothing against Toronto or expansion but this seems to be a fairly simple issue to me - they have mismanaged their player contracts and the salary cap (not Superleague, the RFL or anybody else) and they are now seeking a way around this.

We could argue all day about the difficulties Toronto face over other clubs but what seems clear is that they knew what they were getting into and they shouldn't be stamping their feet about it a few weeks from the start of the season. Just my opinion.

Exactly my point , it's not like the SL salary cap is a secret , their intention was to get into SL as quick as possible , so why all of a sudden " oh ###### , we've spent all the cap on not enough players " , why didn't they ask in October the day after winning promotion ? , Or indeed 2 years ago when they first got promoted to the Championship ?

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7 hours ago, SL17 said:

He wants the cap raised and you haven’t even played a game in SL yet.

Sounds like somebody is running scared.

Or can’t find alternative answers!

What has Leigh & Beaumont got to do with this thread.

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6 hours ago, Cameron Highlander said:

To TIWIT, Kayakman, Adelaide Tiger, and all others who think of TWP in a positive light.   I'd strongly suggest you stay totally clear of this thread and leave it 100% to the negative towards TWP idiots.   They can party-hearty with it until it fizzles out.  If you stick with it....the thread that is......you won't win and stress yourselves out.   My advice FWIW.  I ain't opening this one again.

This thread has caused the biggest party in Leigh since they opened a Greggs there.

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I cant remember what we discussed before TWP came along.  If theyve done nothng else, theyve brought more publicity to the game.

Only time will tell if buying Sonny Bill was the right thing to do and if an injury comes along, things might change.

 

Its going to be interesting to see Clubs attendances compared to last season.

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