The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Quolls2020]

10 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

You missed out the most important factor that provided the opportunity for massive investment by Newscorp that led to long term stability and therefore growth ....... there is no relegation in the NRL.

Relegation had nothing to do with it...it was all about control of Rugby League, and not just in Australia.

and it caused a great amount of instability, from what some say, the code is still suffering.

and several of the Murdoch/Newscorp teams were dumped by Newscorp as soon as they were of no use. 
 

and I’m not too sure what is meant by growth, NRL crowds on average have been going down over the last 10 years. (Including a couple of reasonable years in there).

but if not for the storm and the broncos (And the eels in the new stadium) I would think the overall decline in attendances alarming.

not too sure how to stop the decline, local stadium push may not be the answer, more fta or alternatively more ptv. More promotion in traditional areas. NRL seem to have no interest in the western states.

it will be interesting to see if the broncos crowds are affected next year (Assuming  we can go normally)

having said that Melbourne Storm have been managed incredibly well, there were a couple of times, I thought they were gone, but they survived and survived very well.
 

[Omott91]

2 hours ago, Quolls2020 said:

 but if not for the storm and the broncos (And the eels in the new stadium) I would think the overall decline in attendances alarming.

 

You can add the Knights to that list. Second in overall crowd averages. 

[Quolls2020]

38 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

You can add knights to that list.

 

Not quite as good as their best years, but certainly one of the best recently followed NRL clubs.

[CanadianRugger]

10 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Most Canadian rugby players come from pretty affluent families or at least middle class, not exactly the hotbeds of revolution, unless it’s concerning building in their backyards!

This is literally only true in BC and nowhere else in the Country.  Almost everywhere else, Rugby Union is a working class sport, sure you get the odd doctor that plays, etc but there is no class system.

At my old club, which was a pretty big club by Canadian standards, we had three men's sides, an old boys side, three women's sides and both boys and girls sides from U18 all the way down to minis.

Everyone from tradesmen, police officers, corrections officers, bartenders, doormen, doctors, etc played.  It was certainly not a bunch of rich people.

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, SL17 said:

Which code are you knocking?

Thats describing tge state of affairs in Canadian Union 

[Harry Stottle]

23 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Its not and never has been a "sporting contest" in the pure sense you desire. The teams challenging for trophies in any league are almost always the teams that spend the most and in the past 30 years and with professionalism the gap between "the challengers" and "the rest" is as wider than ever. Recognising that premise changes the perspective totally.

As I've said numerous times now H, you want a pure sporting contest devoid of outside influences, you'll be far happier watching the NCL than any professional sport. 

In regards to your first paragraph one word Salford, yes few and far between but it makes your opening sentance "It's not and never has been" quite untrue.

Secondly tell me again it's not a contest when any one of 4 teams going into the last game could have been relegated last season, it may have escaped your notice but there are 2 ends of the division top and bottom or is it something you would prefer to forget in recent season's?

You don't need to keep telling me about the NCL my town has two member clubs about 400 metres apart and there are not many weekends in season you won't find me at one of them if not it is because I have followed one of them to an away fixture. You are preaching to the already converted Tommy.

[Harry Stottle]

18 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Well what I am saying is that you did not support the Wolfpack going up when they won League 1 and Championship because you implied they 'bought' it even though they won on the field...now you say if you win it on the field your club should go up....you can't have it both ways Harry...you either believe a club earns the right of promotion on the field or they don't.  The name of the club should not change your logic or else it exposes an implied bias.

This is where you lost me, I most fervently believe in P&R in both directions, no favours in fast tracking or protection from relegation for any team whoever or wherever they are from I am completely unbiased about that K'man, unlike many who want to wrap some teams up in cotton wool now those are the biased ones you need to direct your post to.

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

This is the attitude that needs shouting from the rooftops, it'll either embarrass the Unionites into backing down, or rile up our game to support our brother Canuck league'ies 

That attitude has been going on for decades Tommy it has supposedly been swept under the carpet but in reality it hasn't, RU will smile, pat us on the back, tell us they are our friends, because we are not a threat  whenever that looks like changeing they will put up barriers.

What was the case a couple of years ago with that guy in the middle east who got jailed for some technicality about something or other but supposedly it was the RU authorities who engineered it because he was promoting RL.

[Adelaide Tiger]

10 hours ago, Quolls2020 said:

Relegation had nothing to do with it...it was all about control of Rugby League, and not just in Australia.

and it caused a great amount of instability, from what some say, the code is still suffering.

and several of the Murdoch/Newscorp teams were dumped by Newscorp as soon as they were of no use. 
 

and I’m not too sure what is meant by growth, NRL crowds on average have been going down over the last 10 years. (Including a couple of reasonable years in there).

but if not for the storm and the broncos (And the eels in the new stadium) I would think the overall decline in attendances alarming.

not too sure how to stop the decline, local stadium push may not be the answer, more fta or alternatively more ptv. More promotion in traditional areas. NRL seem to have no interest in the western states.

it will be interesting to see if the broncos crowds are affected next year (Assuming  we can go normally)

having said that Melbourne Storm have been managed incredibly well, there were a couple of times, I thought they were gone, but they survived and survived very well.
 

Of course it was about gaining control of RL but do you believe that Newscorp would have pumped the many millions into creating the Storm if there was two or three divisions in the NRL and the Storm would have had to start in the 3rd Division?

My reference to growth and stability was solely related to the annual financial support that the Storm continued to receive from Newscorp. 
 

 

[Tommygilf]

58 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

In regards to your first paragraph one word Salford, yes few and far between but it makes your opening sentance "It's not and never has been" quite untrue.

Secondly tell me again it's not a contest when any one of 4 teams going into the last game could have been relegated last season, it may have escaped your notice but there are 2 ends of the division top and bottom or is it something you would prefer to forget in recent season's?

You don't need to keep telling me about the NCL my town has two member clubs about 400 metres apart and there are not many weekends in season you won't find me at one of them if not it is because I have followed one of them to an away fixture. You are preaching to the already converted Tommy.

Aye Salford, who almost certainly have to overinvest in keeping Ian Watson. Same as Cas with Powell. And for all that, they've won nowt. 

Secondly, that's at the bottom. Of the table, where all SL 3 clubs admitted they underspent as they underestimated the challenge from London. Money a key deciding factor again.

I do need to keep reminding you that 'professional sport' is both those words equally though H. As it seems most of your gripes around the management of the modern game seem to be around how the latter is not the only thing that matters. You want pure sporting contest? Enjoy the NCL!

[Tommygilf]

42 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That attitude has been going on for decades Tommy it has supposedly been swept under the carpet but in reality it hasn't, RU will smile, pat us on the back, tell us they are our friends, because we are not a threat  whenever that looks like changeing they will put up barriers.

What was the case a couple of years ago with that guy in the middle east who got jailed for some technicality about something or other but supposedly it was the RU authorities who engineered it because he was promoting RL.

Exactly. It was the UAE. 

Shouldn't the Second biggest RL league in the world and the biggest in the Northern hemisphere help our League brothers?

[ATLANTISMAN]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

That attitude has been going on for decades Tommy it has supposedly been swept under the carpet but in reality it hasn't, RU will smile, pat us on the back, tell us they are our friends, because we are not a threat  whenever that looks like changeing they will put up barriers.

What was the case a couple of years ago with that guy in the middle east who got jailed for some technicality about something or other but supposedly it was the RU authorities who engineered it because he was promoting RL.

Actually Harry its worse in second level or developing countries as thats where we can be more of a threat.

 

Paul

[Eddie]

19 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Wouldn’t spend the money, I suspect. The Canadian operation of Team t’Wolfpack was said to be slim to non-existent. 

To be fair he did put £20m in, did anyone expect more?

[Whippet13]

Explanation on why TWP single game tickets have not been refunded yet:

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/toronto-issue-update-to-home-and-travelling-fans-awaiting-ticket-refunds/

I had written mine off so if I do get anything back it'll be a bonus.

 

[TheReaper]

10 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

This is literally only true in BC and nowhere else in the Country.  Almost everywhere else, Rugby Union is a working class sport, sure you get the odd doctor that plays, etc but there is no class system.

At my old club, which was a pretty big club by Canadian standards, we had three men's sides, an old boys side, three women's sides and both boys and girls sides from U18 all the way down to minis.

Everyone from tradesmen, police officers, corrections officers, bartenders, doormen, doctors, etc played.  It was certainly not a bunch of rich people.

Yeah I was thinking more about this, decided to go through my clubs starting XV:

1. Corrections officer

2. County work crew + Industrial cleaner (2 jobs) 

3. Construction worker

4. Construction estimator

5. Auto factory + farmer on the side

6. Banking IT tech

7. McDonald's

8. Electrician

9. Pub owner

10. Mechanic

11. Construction estimator

12. Construction worker

13. Student/was in industrial retail

14. Welder

15. Cabinetmaker

 

[Michael1812]

Yeah the idea that rugby union in Canada is made up of middle / upper class is bit off the mark. I went to a rural school in Ontario (farm country) and ‘rugby’ as it as called, was the biggest sport our school played. 

[TIWIT]

25 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

Yeah the idea that rugby union in Canada is made up of middle / upper class is bit off the mark. I went to a rural school in Ontario (farm country) and ‘rugby’ as it as called, was the biggest sport our school played. 

Football in our area is dead. One high shook in 5 played, depending on the the teachers. RU and soccer filled the void. I have no idea what it would take to get RL mixed in there but it starts with a high-profile professional team to get the kids interested. 

It would immediately attract the interest of the second-string RU and soccer players and with some adequate coaching - and an appearance or two from the local pros - TWP for instance -a Foundation for the game will be layed.

[TheReaper]

1 hour ago, Michael1812 said:

Yeah the idea that rugby union in Canada is made up of middle / upper class is bit off the mark. I went to a rural school in Ontario (farm country) and ‘rugby’ as it as called, was the biggest sport our school played. 

Basically any school that can't afford football equipment, rugby kind of slots into that space.

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, Michael1812 said:

Yeah the idea that rugby union in Canada is made up of middle / upper class is bit off the mark. I went to a rural school in Ontario (farm country) and ‘rugby’ as it as called, was the biggest sport our school played. 

There are a tonne of rural farming areas that are big in to Rugby Union, kind of like the Welsh Highlands.

In the East Coast, some of the biggest rugby areas are small farming areas.  Belleisle, NB is under 2000 people, has the top high school team in the Province and has produced two of Canada's top pro players who both went on to pro careers in Europe.

[Oldbear]

I bow to the knowledge of my Ontario friends, I think CR is the most accurate in that in BC RU is dominated and controlled by alumni of top private schools like Shawnigan Lake and St George’s, perhaps that’s another reason RU has never achieved a huge amount in Canada in that the contrast between West and East is staggering, and therefore no common ground a lot of the time. Have to say that since my youngest son moved to Ontario for his studies his team mates seem to be from more normal families, whereas in BC his team mates came from families with at least 2 homes and disposable income that would make your eyes water.

[Kayakman]

2 hours ago, Oldbear said:

I bow to the knowledge of my Ontario friends, I think CR is the most accurate in that in BC RU is dominated and controlled by alumni of top private schools like Shawnigan Lake and St George’s, perhaps that’s another reason RU has never achieved a huge amount in Canada in that the contrast between West and East is staggering, and therefore no common ground a lot of the time. Have to say that since my youngest son moved to Ontario for his studies his team mates seem to be from more normal families, whereas in BC his team mates came from families with at least 2 homes and disposable income that would make your eyes water.

Oldbear the honey is always sweeter in the other tree....the two provincial associations are certainly different.  Ontario used to be taken more seriously by BC but not these days...serious problems in the upper echelons between the two which I witnessed on numerous occasions.  In BC there are lots of working class folk who play and are good but the 'uppers' and their denoted clubs always get the nod for rep sides (thats for sure).  This thinking permeated its way into Ontario and that is one of the obstacles to continued growth.  I once had a lad who was the best young talent I ever saw...best numerous refs ever saw...the complete package from top to bottom....wasn't picked for the Ontario rep side though (told he lived too far from Toronto even though he finished at the top in the trails for speed etc.)....he was very disappointed and went onto a good long career in professional hockey.  A scout from a top Welsh side saw him play and offered him a contract but he chose hockey instead.  He could be picked to play top level rugby in Wales for a big club but could not make the Ontario rep side...the fix was certainly in on that one.  Best tackler I ever coached.  Great speed and ball handling skills...fantastic runner in both traffic and open field.  Was 6'4" and about 220...not good enough for Ontario though (the coach put one his own players from his home club at 8).   Imagine if that young man could have had a crack at League? 

[Hela Wigmen]

https://www.totalrl.com/one-rule-for-one-another-for-the-rest-if-elstone-wants-to-scrutinise-toronto-he-should-look-closer-to-home-too/

It’s incredible that Shaw has an inability to understand why a team who would be based in a different continent for three and a bit months of a season need to be judged slightly differently than sides from opposite sides of the M62. 

[Whippet13]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

https://www.totalrl.com/one-rule-for-one-another-for-the-rest-if-elstone-wants-to-scrutinise-toronto-he-should-look-closer-to-home-too/

It’s incredible that Shaw has an inability to understand why a team who would be based in a different continent for three and a bit months of a season need to be judged slightly differently than sides from opposite sides of the M62. 

I think he's trying to to say that he thinks they are being treated significantly differently, not slightly differently.

Ignoring TWP, he is correct about the crowd stagnation and commercial decline of SL.

[Hela Wigmen]

10 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

I think he's trying to to say that he thinks they are being treated significantly differently, not slightly differently.

Ignoring TWP, he is correct about the crowd stagnation and commercial decline of SL.

They should be treated significantly differently. 

if that’s his point, there’s absolutely no need to bring Toronto in to it. 

[Quolls2020]

2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

https://www.totalrl.com/one-rule-for-one-another-for-the-rest-if-elstone-wants-to-scrutinise-toronto-he-should-look-closer-to-home-too/

It’s incredible that Shaw has an inability to understand why a team who would be based in a different continent for three and a bit months of a season need to be judged slightly differently than sides from opposite sides of the M62. 

I get a paywall!