Jump to content
John Drake

The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

36 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Thanks! I am actually slightly surprised.

For most players, I would imagine Toronto, with its disruption to family and social life, would actually be less appealing to play for than clubs in Lancs or Yorkshire. Would you agree with that?

I would agree with that. Now if we go back to the conception of TWP when they joined L1. They joined with max salary cap courtesy of Mr Beaumont. Would TWP be in SL today if not for the change in the lower tiers SC? So the five year plan to get to SL was based on the SC being increased.

As you say, not only disruption but getting players from a higher level to drop down a notch is very costly. That doesn't give you an excuse for dispensation should you reach the promised land.

They've had 3 Years to build a squad. Some only get 3 months.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, SL17 said:

I would agree with that. Now if we go back to the conception of TWP when they joined L1. They joined with max salary cap courtesy of Mr Beaumont. Would TWP be in SL today if not for the change in the lower tiers SC? So the five year plan to get to SL was based on the SC being increased.

As you say, not only disruption but getting players from a higher level to drop down a notch is very costly. That doesn't give you an excuse for dispensation should you reach the promised land.

They've had 3 Years to build a squad. Some only get 3 months.

Thanks, you make very fair points.

As we agree that Toronto would be less appealling as an employer, a level playing field would require them to be able to offer more money. That Mr Beaumont has indeed done some fine work 🙂


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Thanks, you make very fair points.

As we agree that Toronto would be less appealling as an employer, a level playing field would require them to be able to offer more money. That Mr Beaumont has indeed done some fine work 🙂

The employer sets the level. When they where in L1 they carried a million pound squad. Not much more to play with should you hit SL. They knew that then,nevermind Championship when the rest got used up. As I said the plan was based on SC increase from day one.

There was never any other plan only getting to SL.  Now they are there, they want it increased again, not to get a level playing field but simply to get more players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SL17 said:

They've had 3 Years to build a squad. Some only get 3 months.

Who?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JDINTHEHIZZOUSE said:

The downside of a team having the funds to buy any player they want is that the league stagnates. Do we want a competitive league where anything can happen,creating excitement and interest or do we want to roll back the years when Wigan (the obvious example) just rolled off the coach and won everything? 

How many grand final winners have there been overall? 4ish?  I don't believe that argument holds up. Another team spending to the cap is only a good thing

Toronto can't get breaks for players in their 10th + season.  They can't get players from an academy, or the breaks those players bring. There's exemptions the twp aren't eligible for at this point in time. 

  That could be an argument for some dispensation - I do they they could have spent a little more wisely, but considering the average salary of a twp player (outside marquee) is about 71.5k I think that's a problem for the league as a whole. 

What do these guys do when they can't play rugby anymore?  The average salary is too low, especially with the mobility available after retirement, which comes mid to late 30s?  

I understand a need for a cap.  I think for SL it needs to be higher .

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agree with TBone  last line entirely. A competition calling itself Superleague should empower their teams by enabling them to attract top talent and you can;t do that with a 2.1m pd cap.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Who?

Consider Featherstone last year. If they had won the MPG and been promoted they would have had 3 months to overhaul their team because that team would not have been competitive in SL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the latest SBW crisis dies. Super League and Betfred have agreed he may remove the Betfred logo from his shirt.

Yet another example of Toronto getting special treatment.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Consider Featherstone last year. If they had won the MPG and been promoted they would have had 3 months to overhaul their team because that team would not have been competitive in SL.

So Fev havnt been aspiring to compete at the highest level of the sport since their inception (1886)? Theyve had 100 years to build a good squad, and 24 since super league started.

 

They would have also been given 1.8 million in central funding....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TboneFromTO said:

So Fev havnt been aspiring to compete at the highest level of the sport since their inception (1886)? Theyve had 100 years to build a good squad, and 24 since super league started.

 

They would have also been given 1.8 million in central funding....

 

But only 3 months to pull a team together. They got hot at the just the right time and made an amazing run but stripped of all their DR players there is no way they would be anything but a nail in Super League.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, TIWIT said:

But only 3 months to pull a team together. They got hot at the just the right time and made an amazing run but stripped of all their DR players there is no way they would be anything but a nail in Super League.

Yeah that's true, but the 1.8 million extra would have helped them find from London, others out of contract and from the NRL.  

Bit that's the idea of promotion isn't it?  That's why there are core teams rebound between leagues in every p&r sport - not enough in the shop to keep them up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SL17 said:

I would agree with that. Now if we go back to the conception of TWP when they joined L1. They joined with max salary cap courtesy of Mr Beaumont. Would TWP be in SL today if not for the change in the lower tiers SC? So the five year plan to get to SL was based on the SC being increased.

As you say, not only disruption but getting players from a higher level to drop down a notch is very costly. That doesn't give you an excuse for dispensation should you reach the promised land.

They've had 3 Years to build a squad. Some only get 3 months.

See when you put your mind to it you can make sense instead of.the normal stuff you post 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

See when you put your mind to it you can make sense instead of.the normal stuff you post 

Amen brother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Yeah that's true, but the 1.8 million extra would have helped them find from London, others out of contract and from the NRL.  

Bit that's the idea of promotion isn't it?  That's why there are core teams rebound between leagues in every p&r sport - not enough in the shop to keep them up!

That would get them players all right, but to mold them into a cohesive, competitive team in that short a time? Pretty difficult I imagine.

This is also what I think a lot of people underestimate about TWP. Most of these guys have been playing together for 4 years now, all with the aim of reaching SL. Now that they're there that same team spirit should keep them there.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

That would get them players all right, but to mold them into a cohesive, competitive team in that short a time? Pretty difficult I imagine.

This is also what I think a lot of people underestimate about TWP. Most of these guys have been playing together for 4 years now, all with the aim of reaching SL. Now that they're there that same team spirit should keep them there.

This seems to be a hockey thing...many of these guys on here think we should get rid of our guys who have earned this...just throw them away and get new guys......however the sum is the total of its parts....these guys belong here.

There is alot RL could learn from Hockey.

Our boys will rise to the challenge...we just need about three/four more bodies is all.

Edited by Kayakman
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

That would get them players all right, but to mold them into a cohesive, competitive team in that short a time? Pretty difficult I imagine.

This is also what I think a lot of people underestimate about TWP. Most of these guys have been playing together for 4 years now, all with the aim of reaching SL. Now that they're there that same team spirit should keep them there.

Im confident we will stay up!  Don't get me wrong, but I would like to be competitive as well.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

agree with TBone  last line entirely. A competition calling itself Superleague should empower their teams by enabling them to attract top talent and you can;t do that with a 2.1m pd cap.

However, as we know, clubs can spend far more than £2.1m. TWP are spending more than that on one player. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

This seems to be a hockey thing...many of these guys on here think we should get rid of our guys who have earned this...just throw them away and get new guys......however the sum is the total of its parts....these guys belong here.

There is alot RL could learn from Hockey.

Our boys will rise to the challenge...we just need about three/four more bodies is all.

Sonny Bill williams 

Man of steel 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, 3 or 4 years ago, this signing wouldn't have been possible. Then the SL clubs supported the marquee rule and we are now seeing some very good signings and TWP able to sign SBW. So the SL clubs and the RFL drove changes through to facilitate this kind of signing. 

Unfortunately TWP went overboard and signed two marquee players in the lower division which was probably unnecessary and is now causing them a bit of an issue. 

Just re reading back and this makes The best sense 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Just re reading back and this makes The best sense 

 

For the Love of God don't encourage him.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely TWP have known all along where they stand re: the SC as it has been in place ever since they joined the RFL competitions. So, the catalyst for needing more is, as others have stated above, signing SBW as a third marquee player and thus having to count yhe full salary of one in the cap (presumably the cheapest). TWP then ask for cap dispensation, did they not know they would blow the cap when they signed him? If not it is a terrible inditement of their cap management. 

Anyhow, putting that aside, some on here want the cap raising by 5% for them, and this is thought to be fair as ‘everyone can spend it’. Sorry, but that’s just not right - most of the clubs in SL run on a tight budget and that budget will have been planned pretty much to the last penny. Where will they get the extra funds from? The extra central funding? No, that will already be baked into their budgets! So, that’s not right unless, maybe TWP want to contribute each club’s increase? After all they do have a ‘magic money tree’?

(on that - does anyone know if argyle’s money is ‘given’ or is a directors loan?)

On the point of having them having to pay more to get players... I doubt that that is unique to TWP, I think that players put a salary premium on playing for a club for all sorts of reasons, e.g. whether they are likely to see out the term of their contract before the club either goes bust or is relegated.

Overall I think TWP have every right to ask (about an exemption) but they took a punt on getting SBW knowing full well that they could only have 2 MQ player salaries exempted, but went ahead anyway and are now giving us a sob story. Sorry, fellas, I think you should lose out on this one.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

This seems to be a hockey thing...many of these guys on here think we should get rid of our guys who have earned this...just throw them away and get new guys......however the sum is the total of its parts....these guys belong here.

There is alot RL could learn from Hockey.

Our boys will rise to the challenge...we just need about three/four more bodies is all.

Right on. I think hockey players and rugby players (both codes) are pretty alike in mentality. Team spirit and camaraderie can carry a determined group of players a long way.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, TBone said:

Surely TWP have known all along where they stand re: the SC as it has been in place ever since they joined the RFL competitions. So, the catalyst for needing more is, as others have stated above, signing SBW as a third marquee player and thus having to count yhe full salary of one in the cap (presumably the cheapest). TWP then ask for cap dispensation, did they not know they would blow the cap when they signed him? If not it is a terrible inditement of their cap management. 

Anyhow, putting that aside, some on here want the cap raising by 5% for them, and this is thought to be fair as ‘everyone can spend it’. Sorry, but that’s just not right - most of the clubs in SL run on a tight budget and that budget will have been planned pretty much to the last penny. Where will they get the extra funds from? The extra central funding? No, that will already be baked into their budgets! So, that’s not right unless, maybe TWP want to contribute each club’s increase? After all they do have a ‘magic money tree’?

(on that - does anyone know if argyle’s money is ‘given’ or is a directors loan?)

On the point of having them having to pay more to get players... I doubt that that is unique to TWP, I think that players put a salary premium on playing for a club for all sorts of reasons, e.g. whether they are likely to see out the term of their contract before the club either goes bust or is relegated.

Overall I think TWP have every right to ask (about an exemption) but they took a punt on getting SBW knowing full well that they could only have 2 MQ player salaries exempted, but went ahead anyway and are now giving us a sob story. Sorry, fellas, I think you should lose out on this one.

Everyone gets a 5% bump on salary cap. Everyone doesn't have to spend it. But come August and you're sitting 4 points out of the playoffs and a player you know could help you close that gap and because of that extra space under the cap you can afford him a club would be crazy not to go for it.

And need I remind you TWP has already been forced to increase the other 11 team's share of Sky's TV money by 9%.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

Consider Featherstone last year. If they had won the MPG and been promoted they would have had 3 months to overhaul their team because that team would not have been competitive in SL.

Nice to see you’re learning 👍
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, aj1908 said:

See when you put your mind to it you can make sense instead of.the normal stuff you post 

Pitiful reply. Guess you are lost for words.

For a change 😂

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...