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John Drake

The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Same as this guy? 

Anyone know who he is?

Yep. Carlo LiVolsi seems to be the CEO of a small-time distributor of white label shampoo and other heath & beauty products called Apex Branded Solutions. Also has links with Argyle’s oil & gas exploration outfits.  

LE reports Apex turns over $33m but a quick Google (and company check websites) suggests more like $2m (seven employees). Front man/puppet for Argyle?

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55 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Yep. Carlo LiVolsi seems to be the CEO of a small-time distributor of white label shampoo and other heath & beauty products called Apex Branded Solutions. Also has links with Argyle’s oil & gas exploration outfits.  

LE reports Apex turns over $33m but a quick Google (and company check websites) suggests more like $2m (seven employees). Front man/puppet for Argyle?

Those figures mean nothing and quite probably relate to a new business. He has other significant interests, including as a director of Apollo Health/Acasta Enterprises, a massively bigger Canadian business:

https://www.prpeak.com/potential-new-owner-of-toronto-wolfpack-identified-as-carlo-livolsi-1.24198690

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200811005745/en/Acasta-Enterprises-Reports-Quarter-2020-Results

If he's a front man, it's most likely for the people behind Apollo and they look like a profitable and rapidly growing enterprise.

Edited by Whippet13

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http://www.apollocorp.com/about.html

Successful entrepreneur, investor and director of the largest personal care product manufacturer in Canada.

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Don't doubt the wealth of the Italian community in Toronto.

Edited by CanadianRugger

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Looks to be a Ferrari fan. That does not bode well.

Kayakman has been awfully quiet this week. You don't suppose...

Edited by TIWIT
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24 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Looks to be a Ferrari fan. That does not bode well.

Kayakman has been awfully quiet this week. You don't suppose...

Haha what's wrong with Ferrari?  Literally every Italian I know in Canada owns Ferrari apparel.  Go to Crescent St in Montreal when the Grand Prix is on, it's a Ferrari Bonanza!

Oh wait, you're referring to how ###### they've been this season, roger 😄

Edited by CanadianRugger

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3 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Haha what's wrong with Ferrari?  Literally every Italian I know in Canada owns Ferrari apparel.  Go to Crescent St in Montreal when the Grand Prix is on, it's a Ferrari Bonanza!

Come to Ambleside in West Vancouver. On a typical summer weekend it feels like every 10th car is a Ferrari!

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2 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Come to Ambleside in West Vancouver. On a typical summer weekend it feels like every 10th car is a Ferrari!

Seen it with my own eyes, most of em don't know how to drive em though!

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28 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Seen it with my own eyes, most of em don't know how to drive em though!

2021 Canadian GP. Lance Stroll. Aston Martin.

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It doesn't matter who is financing who in these uncertain times, they could all run out of the readies like Argyle.

Argyle in my opinion did  a great job in helping  to set up the WP.Hopefully the story is not finished there and that they can go on to great things. 

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1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

Seen it with my own eyes, most of em don't know how to drive em though!

Sometimes the drivers don’t look old enough to drive!

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1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

Sometimes the drivers don’t look old enough to drive!

Sitting on Daddy's wallet.

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6 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

Seen it with my own eyes, most of em don't know how to drive em though!

And Tell us all , how are you supposed to drive a Ferrari ? 

I'd say within the speed limits , just like any other car 

Edited by GUBRATS

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12 hours ago, John Drake said:

Brian McDermott: I hope the game makes the right decision on Toronto

https://www.totalrl.com/brian-mcdermott-i-hope-the-game-makes-the-right-decision-on-toronto/

"Decisions will be made soon about our future, both by a potential new owner who may or may not take over, by potential investors who only want to invest in a club that has Super League status"

So I take it no SL, no Toronto Wolfpack?

 

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3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

"Decisions will be made soon about our future, both by a potential new owner who may or may not take over, by potential investors who only want to invest in a club that has Super League status"

So I take it no SL, no Toronto Wolfpack?

 

Suggests so, Harold, so SL will need to ensure the comp, clubs and players aren’t left on the hook for any costs should they be relegated (as would seem likely).

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10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

"Decisions will be made soon about our future, both by a potential new owner who may or may not take over, by potential investors who only want to invest in a club that has Super League status"

So I take it no SL, no Toronto Wolfpack?

 

But Harry that can't happen how many times have we been told on this forum that toronto and north american expansion are the saviours  of british rugby league and clubs in the heartlands who have been around 100 years will cease to exist without them🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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15 hours ago, Dave T said:

Cool. None of that has anything to do with Catalans v Leeds being postponed, which is what we disagreed on. 

Not for me it wasn't 

Edited by Ackroman

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55 minutes ago, POR said:

But Harry that can't happen how many times have we been told on this forum that toronto and north american expansion are the saviours  of british rugby league and clubs in the heartlands who have been around 100 years will cease to exist without them🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

A lot,usually by TWP haters.

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Massive Italian community in Toronto and very some very wealthy,italian friend of mine ended up with over 250 franchised record stores all over Canada with the HQ and warehouse in Toronto in the 1980,s.

Interesting times.

 

Paul

 

 

Edited by ATLANTISMAN
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3 hours ago, POR said:

But Harry that can't happen how many times have we been told on this forum that toronto and north american expansion are the saviours  of british rugby league and clubs in the heartlands who have been around 100 years will cease to exist without them🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Roughly the same number of times we've been told that having Toronto in SL will be the death of British Rugby League.

The truth sits somewhere approximately midway between the two.

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3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

"Decisions will be made soon about our future, both by a potential new owner who may or may not take over, by potential investors who only want to invest in a club that has Super League status"

So I take it no SL, no Toronto Wolfpack?

Or at least no Wolfpack under the proposed new ownership group - which they are selling as the same thing as no Wolfpack. They are applying subtle pressure to the RFL/SL mixed in with a charm offensive across the wider RL community. Its the opposite of Argyle's often brash approach and quite fascinating to observe the complete change.

The final decision will come down to how much the SL are willing to give on the issue of central funding and travel costs, it won't be a 100% concession and if TWP are readmitted then both sides will have to claim a financial "win". I also suspect Sky have been consulted for their views, it would be madness for SL not to speak to them.

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59 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Or at least no Wolfpack under the proposed new ownership group - which they are selling as the same thing as no Wolfpack. They are applying subtle pressure to the RFL/SL mixed in with a charm offensive across the wider RL community. Its the opposite of Argyle's often brash approach and quite fascinating to observe the complete change.

The final decision will come down to how much the SL are willing to give on the issue of central funding and travel costs, it won't be a 100% concession and if TWP are readmitted then both sides will have to claim a financial "win". I also suspect Sky have been consulted for their views, it would be madness for SL not to speak to them.

The new owner would be a fool to invest in saving the team without being assured his investment had a good chance of paying off long term. Here's what I think would make sense:

  • Toronto Wolfpack readmitted to Super League, with protection from relegation for at least 3 years (the same deal that Catalan got when they were admitted)
  • A points penalty might be applied, keeping them out of the playoffs (which would be a real stretch in any case), but not leading to relegation
  • Full partners in SL, including voting rights and an equal share of central funding going forward, as well as RFL support on the visa issue to avoid a repeat of that problem
  • A real commitment to developing young players (reserve team if that returns, and/or an academy, either in Canada or the UK or both)
  • A commitment to quickly (within 2 weeks of approval to readmit the team to SL) make good on all debts to players, coaches and team employees
  • A commitment to honour all season ticket purchases rolled over from 2020, and to quickly refund all 2020 single-ticket purchases
  • A substantial re-admittance fee to be paid by the team to the RFL. The amount should be more than the amount the SL teams are losing from Sky in 2021, and should include funds for teams in the Championship and League 1. This can be viewed as either the penalty for late withdrawal this season or the cost of becoming a full member with protection from relegation, or both.
  • A joint plan to market TV/streaming rights in Canada and the US starting in 2022, once Sportsnet's cheap rights deal from Sky has ended, to get real value from that. Viewers in Canada should be able to watch all Super League games (perhaps at a price), as we can now with watchnrl.

It makes no sense to invest millions in a team if it's not going to be in SL for the foreseeable future, and it would be a mistake to rejoin SL as anything less than a full partner. But there also has to be something in it for SL and teams in the lower levels. If the new owner shows he is willing to invest substantially up front to help support existing teams at all levels, in return for being a full partner for years to come, would that be seen as reasonable?

Edited by John WP Fan
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That would be great but I can't see it happening in the current climate........ who knows when paying fans will be allowed back to games....... when can any form of transatlantic travel for sport resume on anything  like the level we had before Covid.

Any brand new side from North America would probably be admitted straight into super league if they were to provide that level of upfront investment to the game (were' skint).  Can't see TWP offering anything like this until things are back to relatively normal and who knows how long that will be.

SL is struggling to get games on now and the teams are all an hour away from each other.


england_identity2.jpg1921_button.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

The new owner would be a fool to invest in saving the team without being assured his investment had a good chance of paying off long term. Here's what I think would make sense:

  • Toronto Wolfpack readmitted to Super League, with protection from relegation for at least 3 years (the same deal that Catalan got when they were admitted)
  • A points penalty might be applied, keeping them out of the playoffs (which would be a real stretch in any case), but not leading to relegation
  • Full partners in SL, including voting rights and an equal share of central funding going forward, as well as RFL support on the visa issue to avoid a repeat of that problem
  • A real commitment to developing young players (reserve team if that returns, and/or an academy, either in Canada or the UK or both)
  • A commitment to quickly (within 2 weeks of approval to readmit the team to SL) make good on all debts to players, coaches and team employees
  • A commitment to honour all season ticket purchases rolled over from 2020, and to quickly refund all 2020 single-ticket purchases
  • A substantial re-admittance fee to be paid by the team to the RFL. The amount should be more than the amount the SL teams are losing from Sky in 2021, and should include funds for teams in the Championship and League 1. This can be viewed as either the penalty for late withdrawal this season or the cost of becoming a full member with protection from relegation, or both.
  • A joint plan to market TV/streaming rights in Canada and the US starting in 2022, once Sportsnet's cheap rights deal from Sky has ended, to get real value from that. Viewers in Canada should be able to watch all Super League games (perhaps at a price), as we can now with watchnrl.

It makes no sense to invest millions in a team if it's not going to be in SL for the foreseeable future, and it would be a mistake to rejoin SL as anything less than a full partner. But there also has to be something in it for SL and teams in the lower levels. If the new owner shows he is willing to invest substantially up front to help support existing teams at all levels, in return for being a full partner for years to come, would that be seen as reasonable?

And if P&R is retained John, are you saying that 11 clubs could possibly be relegated but Toronto would be excempt?

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