coronavirus

[Bob8]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Some police forces really aren't helping themselves at the moment. 

Some helpful clarification that the police are getting it wrong in some cases. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937

This is inevitable. It is a sudden change in the rules.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

This is inevitable. It is a sudden change in the rules.

I can understand getting a few things wrong about the exercising and travelling and crowds in parks etc. I am stunned any police officer or force ever thought getting involved in what was classed as essential goods would be a good idea! 

They have a hard enough job as it is without making it harder from themselves, but then I always try and remind myself that people in jobs like this are the same as the rest of us, and I know all sorts of people being harsh in their judgement of people and their actions. 

[Bob8]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I can understand getting a few things wrong about the exercising and travelling and crowds in parks etc. I am stunned any police officer or force ever thought getting involved in what was classed as essential goods would be a good idea! 

They have a hard enough job as it is without making it harder from themselves, but then I always try and remind myself that people in jobs like this are the same as the rest of us, and I know all sorts of people being harsh in their judgement of people and their actions. 

It is how the brain works.

Essential means less fun. It sounds daft, but consider that in the panic buying that people did not stock up on chocolate biscuits, which would actually have made sense. Pious seriousness is not a virtue itself. Many of the rules do not make strict sense, and peoples' understanding is going to be painfully less than we generally assume.

[Saintslass]

2 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Justifies £2000 per calendar month?  Got it.  

I have no idea how much houses are to rent in Herefordshire.  That's more than here in St Helens but that's because St Helens is a poop hole.

[Bob8]

Dirty politics

[Saintslass]

5 hours ago, ckn said:

At national level, I'm concentrating on helping with discharge planning so that people get the best treatment once they're discharged.

On the point about discharge .. I have just read a report of a judge ordering the discharge of a mental health patient who had been taking up a bed in a separate room in hospital for a year.  A year!  This was in spite of the fact that a place had been found in suitably adapted accommodation and a care plan had been in place for most of that time.  The hospital had been at the point of discharging the patient during that year on more than one occasion but the patient had said they didn't want to be discharged because they didn't think where they were going was right for them.  The judge disagreed and now the patient is to be discharged regardless so that the bed can be used for a Covid patient.

I think there is something completely wrong with a physically fit person who has suitable alternative arrangements available hogging a bed just because they don't want to leave.  Especially doing so for a year for heaven's sake.  I wonder how many other examples like this have been occurring up to now?  I was amazed to read about it (and the story was in the Guardian btw, not the Mail!).

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, tim2 said:

Enjoy JohnM and Saintslass at loggerheads. It doesn't happen too often!

Wrong.  Current regulations say that travel to Loggerheads is not regarded as essential.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loggerheads,_Staffordshire

 

[Saintslass]

Just now, Bob8 said:

She would say the same if it was a Labour Minister.

Wrong!  I know that rent in places to the south of here tends to be higher than rent in places like St Helens.  Unlike some, it seems.  That is the case whether the minister is Tory, Labour, LibDem or Martian.

[Bob8]

23 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

On the point about discharge .. I have just read a report of a judge ordering the discharge of a mental health patient who had been taking up a bed in a separate room in hospital for a year.  A year!  This was in spite of the fact that a place had been found in suitably adapted accommodation and a care plan had been in place for most of that time.  The hospital had been at the point of discharging the patient during that year on more than one occasion but the patient had said they didn't want to be discharged because they didn't think where they were going was right for them.  The judge disagreed and now the patient is to be discharged regardless so that the bed can be used for a Covid patient.

I think there is something completely wrong with a physically fit person who has suitable alternative arrangements available hogging a bed just because they don't want to leave.  Especially doing so for a year for heaven's sake.  I wonder how many other examples like this have been occurring up to now?  I was amazed to read about it (and the story was in the Guardian btw, not the Mail!).

You are right and I suspect it reflects limitations in the mental health budget . It can lead to false economies.

[graveyard johnny]

it would be interesting  to hear forum members own experiences of the virus, I personally don't know any one that's had it or know anyone that knows anyone that has, I might be lucky and this may yet be to come and other forum members may have had a different experience  ( not your cleaners, aunties ex husband darn that London stuff though)

[Bob8]

 

No politics

[tim2]

2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Wrong.  Current regulations say that travel to Loggerheads is not regarded as essential.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loggerheads,_Staffordshire

 

I never knew Loggerheads meant fools. There are benefits to this lockdown malarkey.

[graveyard johnny]

keep the politics stuff int uther thread

[tim2]

1 minute ago, graveyard johnny said:

it would be interesting  to hear forum members own experiences of the virus, I personally don't know any one that's had it or know anyone that knows anyone that has, I might be lucky and this may yet be to come and other forum members may have had a different experience  ( not your cleaners, aunties ex husband darn that London stuff though)

Three work colleagues. One, about 30 and fit, said he felt like he'd been hit by a bus and had fluctuating temperature for a day or so. Then the dry cough for about 5 days. Back to gentle work duty at home after about 9-10 days. His 1 year old probably had it too. 

Another, 50+, probably caught it from people at church, one of whom ended up in ICU and is now home. He was pretty rough with temperature and cough for 5 days. Since then he's been tired but is gradually getting back to fitness. Cough is nearly gone.

Not heard from directly from #3 but she probably caught it from #2 after the last day at work when they interviewed someone over Skype in a small room. I've heard that she's recovering.

[Bearman]

13 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

On the point about discharge .. I have just read a report of a judge ordering the discharge of a mental health patient who had been taking up a bed in a separate room in hospital for a year.  A year!  This was in spite of the fact that a place had been found in suitably adapted accommodation and a care plan had been in place for most of that time.  The hospital had been at the point of discharging the patient during that year on more than one occasion but the patient had said they didn't want to be discharged because they didn't think where they were going was right for them.  The judge disagreed and now the patient is to be discharged regardless so that the bed can be used for a Covid patient.

I think there is something completely wrong with a physically fit person who has suitable alternative arrangements available hogging a bed just because they don't want to leave.  Especially doing so for a year for heaven's sake.  I wonder how many other examples like this have been occurring up to now?  I was amazed to read about it (and the story was in the Guardian btw, not the Mail!).

Your right of course, but not to trivialize it perhaps the mental patient was not right in the head?.

 

 

[ckn]

6 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

On the point about discharge .. I have just read a report of a judge ordering the discharge of a mental health patient who had been taking up a bed in a separate room in hospital for a year.  A year!  This was in spite of the fact that a place had been found in suitably adapted accommodation and a care plan had been in place for most of that time.  The hospital had been at the point of discharging the patient during that year on more than one occasion but the patient had said they didn't want to be discharged because they didn't think where they were going was right for them.  The judge disagreed and now the patient is to be discharged regardless so that the bed can be used for a Covid patient.

I think there is something completely wrong with a physically fit person who has suitable alternative arrangements available hogging a bed just because they don't want to leave.  Especially doing so for a year for heaven's sake.  I wonder how many other examples like this have been occurring up to now?  I was amazed to read about it (and the story was in the Guardian btw, not the Mail!).

Please also remember that a one-page (or part-page) report of a law case is probably a trivial fraction of the facts and law of the case, and entirely from the perspective of the person writing it. If I had to guess from my insider's perspective, I'd say the patient was unhappy about being taken from a gold-standard inpatient bed to one run by minimum wage staff and had no friends/family who could/would take the role of carer.

The mental health "halfway houses" are grim. Brutally grim, (barely) serviced bedsits run by staff who are on abysmal terms and overseen by clinical staff who often are either temporary or have another "good" reason for not working in the higher paid/terms NHS. Their entire goal seems to be to make people so unhappy they discharge themselves from care.

The outcomes of people stuck in there with zero outpatient support is not good if they have no family or friends who can act as carer.

A bitter, bitter outcome for very unwell people.

On how many that is stuck in beds? It's a trivial number really, it genuinely is in the grand scheme of things. Most are waiting on care packages from an already over-stretched system.

And none of that is of any import to COVID-19 discharges, that's a wholly different thing.

[Bedford Roughyed]

27 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I have no idea how much houses are to rent in Herefordshire.

He's the MP for Newark in Nottinghamshire. 

[Robin Evans]

28 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I have no idea how much houses are to rent in Herefordshire.  That's more than here in St Helens but that's because St Helens is a poop hole.

Pfffft...  St Helen's???..... Luxury....

Try Rovrum.....

[Robin Evans]

23 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

On the point about discharge .. I have just read a report of a judge ordering the discharge of a mental health patient who had been taking up a bed in a separate room in hospital for a year.  A year!  This was in spite of the fact that a place had been found in suitably adapted accommodation and a care plan had been in place for most of that time.  The hospital had been at the point of discharging the patient during that year on more than one occasion but the patient had said they didn't want to be discharged because they didn't think where they were going was right for them.  The judge disagreed and now the patient is to be discharged regardless so that the bed can be used for a Covid patient.

I think there is something completely wrong with a physically fit person who has suitable alternative arrangements available hogging a bed just because they don't want to leave.  Especially doing so for a year for heaven's sake.  I wonder how many other examples like this have been occurring up to now?  I was amazed to read about it (and the story was in the Guardian btw, not the Mail!).

Twice in a day..... this is getting bloody ridiculous. I demand you praise thatcher immediately!!!

[Robin Evans]

23 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

it would be interesting  to hear forum members own experiences of the virus, I personally don't know any one that's had it or know anyone that knows anyone that has, I might be lucky and this may yet be to come and other forum members may have had a different experience  ( not your cleaners, aunties ex husband darn that London stuff though)

My sisters fella has been ventilated for nearly a week now.... and he's on dialysis. Grim, is how I would describe his chances.

Fortunately my niece and her husband in perth WA are improving. They are subject to regular checks from WA police to make sure they are respecting lockdown.

One of my pals is recovering. He's been unwell but didn't require hospital.

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

25 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

it would be interesting  to hear forum members own experiences of the virus, I personally don't know any one that's had it or know anyone that knows anyone that has, I might be lucky and this may yet be to come and other forum members may have had a different experience  ( not your cleaners, aunties ex husband darn that London stuff though)

One of my allotment plot neighbours died with/of covid last week. Aged about 60. I was in the same class as his brother at primary school. 

Ex work colleague's mum also died with/of it last week. She was in her early 80s.

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, ckn said:

 

I do see a bit of a civil war coming in the NHS when this is over. Side 1: the "always been done this way" lot who'll insist on going back to pre-COVID days of silos. Side 2: the lot that realise their job is one hell of a lot easier when everyone's aiming for win:win rather than their side winning.

I have had a very jaundiced opinion of the NHS based upon my recent experience of it , overly beaurocratic and to fixed in systems , many of them totally unneccessary , they like the armed forces will never have enough money , they can always absorb more 

I was surprised to see hospitals here using those snorkel masks as ' bush fixes ' , maybe all this will see overdue changes 

[Robin Evans]

My BMI is about 97!! Ok, no it's not but I am morbidly obese. I'm shi tting myself!!

[Bedford Roughyed]

We are now seeing more people dying daily than Italy and Spain.  Worth remembering Italy’s health system in some regions was beyond capacity thus such high numbers.  Our system hasn’t broken yet, but still more deaths.

[graveyard johnny]

who needs the sunshine?, have been to the fridge so many times lately have caught a tan from the internal light!