Jump to content

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Rhetorical certainly, but strange, not really.

Ciderwire clearly takes pride in his son, but he linked his family pride with his ambivalence over whether or not to support the Catalans this season.

I would have thought they were quite separate things.

But maybe not!

 

Nah, I'll stick with strange.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make all games vrs Cats 'pride' games.

Condemned his views but let him play.

If he messes up again then ban him

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Martyn Sadler said:

Rhetorical certainly, but strange, not really.

Ciderwire clearly takes pride in his son, but he linked his family pride with his ambivalence over whether or not to support the Catalans this season.

I would have thought they were quite separate things.

But maybe not!

 

I think it’s pretty natural to feel torn if something you like suddenly seems to support something that offends someone close to you. How could you,for example, cheer on a side containing someone who wishes your son burns in hell or some such cobblers? 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Rhetorical certainly, but strange, not really.

Ciderwire clearly takes pride in his son, but he linked his family pride with his ambivalence over whether or not to support the Catalans this season.

I would have thought they were quite separate things.

But maybe not!

 

I'd find it difficult to support a club that employed someone who thought such things about my child. For example if my team brought Tommy Robinson onto the board I'd find it difficult to continue giving my support to them. I don't see what's difficult about that?

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Not by Folau's signing.

Not a bit, in fact. He thinks he'll be a great signing for the Catalans.

But nowadays we all tend to get outraged on other people's behalf.

I find nothing wrong with being outraged by an outrageous statement.

If a player took to Twitter to make homophobic comments I am sure you wouldn't need to ask what your friend thought before being outraged. 

The problem with what Falou said is that he called for people to 'repent' from being homosexual but because it was wrapped in a religious context it is deemed freedom of religion. 

I am happy to be outraged by what Falou said because saying that people will be punished for the 'sin' of being gay is outrageous. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

If he'd said this on the terraces he'd receive a stadium ban

Have to agree with this Tommy.  Religious views shouldn't in my opinion be allowed to give you a get out of jail card for what would otherwise be deemed unacceptable or in some cases illegal behaviour.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Graveyard, You beat me to it, I was educated at a Catholic Grammar School and it never entered my head about Gay priests and Nuns. Primarily because in those days sexuality was never mentioned. When I left school and was able to think for myself instead of having religion shoved down my throat, I began to realise that there was such a thing as gay men and women. Never once though did I attach it to religion. I can never remember being told that gay were the scourge of the earth, quite the opposite in fact, my wife was a dancer in lots of shows and the vast majority of her dance partners were gay men. I,personally found the vast majority of them were really decent guys, they were just ordinary guys with a different perception of relationships but that does not warrant " that they were going to be condemned to hell".As I have posted earlier in my humble opinion Folau is a numbskull with a big mouth to match who follows a very strange religion that preaches his ideas.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chemicmike said:

Have to agree with this Tommy.  Religious views shouldn't in my opinion be allowed to give you a get out of jail card for what would otherwise be deemed unacceptable or in some cases illegal behaviour.

Totally.  And realistically they don’t.  “I can be intolerant because I believe it” is a dreadful defence.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chemicmike said:

Have to agree with this Tommy.  Religious views shouldn't in my opinion be allowed to give you a get out of jail card for what would otherwise be deemed unacceptable or in some cases illegal behaviour.

Exactly, it goes against every inclusivity programme the RFL are driving towards inclusivity.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chemicmike said:

Have to agree with this Tommy.  Religious views shouldn't in my opinion be allowed to give you a get out of jail card for what would otherwise be deemed unacceptable or in some cases illegal behaviour.

Of course they shouldn’t I completely agree. Unfortunately we get that worried about offending people’s beliefs (religious or otherwise) for fear of being seen as a bigot or worse, that we allow it until such time it outrages the masses. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I'd find it difficult to support a club that employed someone who thought such things about my child. For example if my team brought Tommy Robinson onto the board I'd find it difficult to continue giving my support to them. I don't see what's difficult about that?

That's perfectly understandable.

But in this case we are talking about a player, whose views on any topic are unlikely to affect the way he plays the game.

Nowadays sportsmen regularly give their opinions on a range of subjects on social media, so we know far more about them than we did in the pre-social media years.

So do we go through their social media posts with a fine toothcomb to see whether we should carry on supporting them or their team?

Perhaps some of us do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read any of this topic yet, and I have only just seen the news of this signing - The first thought I had was anger at Catalans for signing him TBH.

 

IMO, not the kind of person I would like in our sport, and I would stop supporting my team if it was them that had signed him.

I do understand that the RFL can do nothing to stop his registration, due to not actually having gone through any criminal procedures, etc. Doesn't stop this making me feel .. Angry? That may be the right word for it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Martyn Sadler said:

That's perfectly understandable.

But in this case we are talking about a player, whose views on any topic are unlikely to affect the way he plays the game.

Nowadays sportsmen regularly give their opinions on a range of subjects on social media, so we know far more about them than we did in the pre-social media years.

So do we go through their social media posts with a fine toothcomb to see whether we should carry on supporting them or their team?

Perhaps some of us do.

I think anything posted when in a position of fame and with the intention of spreading a viewpoint should be judged as such. This isn't combing through Folau's social media, its one of his most prominent ever posts that he lost his place in the national side and went to court over. He was given the opportunity to apologise and say it was wrong and still hasn't. 

His views of course won't affect his ability to play the game, but why anyone would want to support someone with their hard earned cash who held those views.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

But in this case we are talking about a player, whose views on any topic are unlikely to affect the way he plays the game.

Again, how odd.  He is not talking about how Folau's views may impact his performances on the pitch, he is talking about how Folau's high profile and widely condemned views may impact his connection as a fan with the club that employed him.

But then I think you knew that already.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

That's perfectly understandable.

But in this case we are talking about a player, whose views on any topic are unlikely to affect the way he plays the game.

Nowadays sportsmen regularly give their opinions on a range of subjects on social media, so we know far more about them than we did in the pre-social media years.

So do we go through their social media posts with a fine toothcomb to see whether we should carry on supporting them or their team?

Perhaps some of us do.

Pretty much all celebrities have people that have gone back through their social media and comments to get ones that people disagree with - Just look at the various award shows in the US that have had to change hosts after some previous comments have come out, i.e. Kevin Hart.

If you are well known sportsperson, you are a role model to younger fans IMO, and you should conduct yourself in a way that doesn't make some of those young fans want to kill themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Again, how odd.  He is not talking about how Folau's views may impact his performances on the pitch, he is talking about how Folau's high profile and widely condemned views may impact his connection as a fan with the club that employed him.

But then I think you knew that already.

Ultimately the Dragons will discover whether signing Folau has been a wise move or not.

Whether he will help them achieve better results is debatable.

Whether he will deter supporters from coming through the gate is also debatable, but certainly possible.

If the majority opinion on this thread is reflected in the views of Catalans' supporters, the Dragons may well come to regret signing Folau.

So in that sense I take your point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would Folau's supporters say if a muslim player came out and said non believers are infidels?

Would you want him playing our game?

Edited by jacksy
  • Like 1

Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Of course they shouldn’t I completely agree. Unfortunately we get that worried about offending people’s beliefs (religious or otherwise) for fear of being seen as a bigot or worse, that we allow it until such time it outrages the masses. 

I think the confusion is that (in the UK anyway) religion and religious beliefs are also protected from discrimination so you get an argument about whether one protected group is getting preferential treatment over the other (and of course historically religion had greater prominence which probably shapes some thinking) but the reality is that religion "fires the first shot" if part of it's doctrine is intolerance so it shouldn't be able to rely on it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jacksy said:

What would Folau's supporters say if a muslim player came out and said non believers are infidels?

Would you want him playing our game?

I am an infidel, me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ckn said:

I wonder how they're fitting that into their salary cap. That's a lot of "marquee" players...

He’s a replacement for Willame and given he’s come from Union, he’ll have salary cap dispensation won’t he? 

 I can’t imagine he’s on the sort of money he was on previously either

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I know it's not a coincidence and that's my point - it'll be built up by many as a day to target Folau rather than celebrate the LGBTQ+ community. 

Exactly, nothing like stoking the flames eh? It feels to me that Wigan have used a bit of ‘clever’ marketing. In itself I have no issue with them doing so but it has the potential to be a deliberate act of incitement against one person’s religious views which makes me deeply uncomfortable. I’d rather they picked a random game for such a stance or even better to have it coincide with Manchester Gay Pride weekend at the end of August - that would be far more positive 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently Wakefield are now talking to Gay Pride people about making the Wakey game against Catalan about Gay Pride. Mr. Carter vehemently disagrees with the Folau signing.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might be an idea if Les Dracs eventually hold their own ‘Pride round’ with players wearing rainbow armbands or some such. 

Understandable if Folau doesn’t wear one but if he did that would be, erm, one hell of a story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Exactly, nothing like stoking the flames eh? It feels to me that Wigan have used a bit of ‘clever’ marketing. In itself I have no issue with them doing so but it has the potential to be a deliberate act of incitement against one person’s religious views which makes me deeply uncomfortable. I’d rather they picked a random game for such a stance or even better to have it coincide with Manchester Gay Pride weekend at the end of August - that would be far more positive 

Now it has been confirmed by Lenegan that he explored signing Folau himself, and they signed Hardaker after his homophobia and drugs ban, it does seem a but odd.

People are calling it out as trolling online, and being applauded, but now it turns out the Wigan club would happily have signed him it feels cynical now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...