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4 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Decent analysis there, pretty much where I am (more or less) and I’d rather have they hadn’t gone here in the first place. 
It’s definitely a bit of a moral maze because let’s imagine he had those views but didn’t air them publicly, would that be acceptable? Do we start making players sign some sort of declaration about what they do or don’t believe in?

But at the same time, not naming an individual doesn’t mean he’s free to express any views.  If he’d said ‘I hate blacks’ that wouldn’t be picking on an individual but still wrong and unacceptable. (Obviously perhaps)

But he hasn't said he ' hates ' anyone 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

But he hasn't said he ' hates ' anyone 

I was using an example, not saying he said that. 

Edited by Johnoco

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What he believes isn't the issue. Spouting his offensive hate filled propoganda is. 

Which he has replied to stating , " it wasn't my intention to cause hurt and I'll not be repeating it " 

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Just now, Johnoco said:

I was using an example, not saying he said that. 

I know John , I was agreeing with you , but it seems many just don't seem to see that , you cannot control people's thoughts ,yes he made a public statement , be has said he won't do it again , but it seems some won't be happy unless he chops a keg of two of in remorse , absolute madness 

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3 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

So being homophobic isn't the issue 

Tell that to the rest of the thread 

He was initially asked the question  by one of his folle4rs

So he isn't allowed to answer his own beliefs 

How would anyone know a person's beliefs? I'm free to believe all sorts of racist, misogynistic stuff if I really was that way inclined and nobody would be any the wiser. 

If is started to spout propoganda endorsing those views, I can't be surprised if my employer has an issue with it. 

That is all that is happening here. 

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1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

Ahh the French!  Despite all of the outrage in the UK and Australia, I guarantee 100% that no one in Perpignan gives a ###### about what Folau said or did.  I grew up with Francos, they tend not to give a ###### about this sort of stuff, it's a cultural thing.

Let's face it, Catalans have been near the cellar the past few seasons and need the firepower.  They probably even got a discount on account of Israel's "baggage".  Smart rugby move.

Even here in Australia it's mostly manufactured outrage. The vast majority of your average punters (at least 70%) couldn't give a what some loony fundamentalist says.

Which leads to a more interesting question: How is it that people in such an extreme minority of political and philosophical thought have come to have so much power in society? 

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which he has replied to stating , " it wasn't my intention to cause hurt and I'll not be repeating it " 

He has campaigned to protect his free speech, raising millions from donations, then took a payoff and now has a clause in his contract that prevents him from repeating this stuff. 

He didn't apologise when he said it, he didn't back down, he doubled down. He gets no credit for the above. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

How would anyone know a person's beliefs? I'm free to believe all sorts of racist, misogynistic stuff if I really was that way inclined and nobody would be any the wiser. 

If is started to spout propoganda endorsing those views, I can't be surprised if my employer has an issue with it. 

That is all that is happening here. 

Devils advocate time Dave.....

Is it ok to hold any views as long as you don’t air them?

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

How would anyone know a person's beliefs? I'm free to believe all sorts of racist, misogynistic stuff if I really was that way inclined and nobody would be any the wiser. 

If is started to spout propoganda endorsing those views, I can't be surprised if my employer has an issue with it. 

That is all that is happening here. 

How many times has actually said this ? 

 

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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-25/israel-folau-offered-to-say-sorry-anti-gay-instagram-post/11547260

"Former Wallabies star Israel Folau offered to publicly apologise over his anti-gay social media post warning homosexuals would go to hell, court documents have revealed."

"social media posts he had made in 2018, in which he responded to an Instagram post asking: "What was gods (sic) plan for gay people?" by writing "HELL... unless they repent their sins and turn to god".

 

theres loads more in there for people who want to read it all.  so he did offer to apologise, and the initial drama came about when he was asked for his views on something and he gave his honest answer.

Edited by aj1908

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

He has campaigned to protect his free speech, raising millions from donations, then took a payoff and now has a clause in his contract that prevents him from repeating this stuff. 

He didn't apologise when he said it, he didn't back down, he doubled down. He gets no credit for the above. 

he did offer to apologise

raising millions from donations is his issue lol why are you raising that.  good luck to him.  loads of people put stupid stuff on crowd funding

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13 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Since people are quoting what others have said and misquoting what Folau himself has said; here's a couple of quotes from him.

"My response to the question is what I believe God's plan is for all sinners, according to my understanding of my Bible teachings, specifically 1 Corinthians 6:9–10

"Since my social media posts were publicised, it has been suggested that I am homophobic and bigoted and that I have a problem with gay people. This could not be further from the truth. I fronted the cover of the Star Observer magazine to show my support for the Bingham Cup, which is an international gay rugby competition for both men and women. I believe in inclusion. In my heart, I know I do not have any phobia towards anyone." 

He's literally quoted as saying he doesn't have a problem with people who are gay and attributes his comments directly to religious scripts (not his own words which is important) yet some are saying Hardaker was forgiven because he 'showed remorse' and went on an 'educational course' - deary me, I know which one of them two I think said their comments in massively ill judged manner and which one said them as a mindless homophobe but hey don't some of you let your halo slide because...because he did the course, right? 

100% this

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18 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Since people are quoting what others have said and misquoting what Folau himself has said; here's a couple of quotes from him.

"My response to the question is what I believe God's plan is for all sinners, according to my understanding of my Bible teachings, specifically 1 Corinthians 6:9–10

"Since my social media posts were publicised, it has been suggested that I am homophobic and bigoted and that I have a problem with gay people. This could not be further from the truth. I fronted the cover of the Star Observer magazine to show my support for the Bingham Cup, which is an international gay rugby competition for both men and women. I believe in inclusion. In my heart, I know I do not have any phobia towards anyone." 

He's literally quoted as saying he doesn't have a problem with people who are gay and attributes his comments directly to religious scripts (not his own words which is important) yet some are saying Hardaker was forgiven because he 'showed remorse' and went on an 'educational course' - deary me, I know which one of them two I think said their comments in massively ill judged manner and which one said them as a mindless homophobe but hey don't some of you let your halo slide because...because he did the course, right? 

Again this 

 

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18 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Since people are quoting what others have said and misquoting what Folau himself has said; here's a couple of quotes from him.

"My response to the question is what I believe God's plan is for all sinners, according to my understanding of my Bible teachings, specifically 1 Corinthians 6:9–10

"Since my social media posts were publicised, it has been suggested that I am homophobic and bigoted and that I have a problem with gay people. This could not be further from the truth. I fronted the cover of the Star Observer magazine to show my support for the Bingham Cup, which is an international gay rugby competition for both men and women. I believe in inclusion. In my heart, I know I do not have any phobia towards anyone." 

He's literally quoted as saying he doesn't have a problem with people who are gay and attributes his comments directly to religious scripts (not his own words which is important) yet some are saying Hardaker was forgiven because he 'showed remorse' and went on an 'educational course' - deary me, I know which one of them two I think said their comments in massively ill judged manner and which one said them as a mindless homophobe but hey don't some of you let your halo slide because...because he did the course, right? 

yes i want to bump this as well after reading it again.

especially the last sentence.

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6 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Devils advocate time Dave.....

Is it ok to hold any views as long as you don’t air them?

People hold all sorts of nasty thoughts and beliefs. We are not into brainwashing. 

Folau wasn't charged, arrested, whatever, his employer had a barney with him, which is within their rights. 

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4 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

he did offer to apologise

raising millions from donations is his issue lol why are you raising that.  good luck to him.  loads of people put stupid stuff on crowd funding

I'm pointing out how he bravely fought a court case with other people's money so he could be free to spout this nonsense. He didn't back down. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

People hold all sorts of nasty thoughts and beliefs. We are not into brainwashing. 

Folau wasn't charged, arrested, whatever, his employer had a barney with him, which is within their rights. 

How many times did he tweet his beliefs Dave ?

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Just now, Dave T said:

I'm pointing out how he bravely fought a court case with other people's money so he could be free to spout this nonsense. He didn't back down. 

How many times has he ' spouted ' this belief ?

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

He has campaigned to protect his free speech, raising millions from donations, then took a payoff and now has a clause in his contract that prevents him from repeating this stuff. 

He didn't apologise when he said it, he didn't back down, he doubled down. He gets no credit for the above. 

Why would you want a fake apology? He has stated he didn’t mean to cause offence, will not say anything more and has appeared in the past on the magazine supporting a gay rugby tournament. As mentioned before it should end now. People can rightly boo him from the stands etc but if it’s dragged out over the season people will start turning against the witch hunt.

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Just now, Dave T said:

I'm pointing out how he bravely fought a court case with other people's money so he could be free to spout this nonsense. He didn't back down. 

so? people were happy for him to fight that case.  i saw a lot of religious people on my facebook donate because they saw it as sticking up for their religion which they feel is oppressed right now

folau was fighting the good fight for them.  they actually wanted to donate more.

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26 minutes ago, CiderWire said:

Then why on earth ask it? Was it a bit of rhetoric thrown down merely to provoke a reaction? 

I won't support the Dragons because I'd rather be able to look my son in the eye. He's suffered the slings and arrows enough from people like Folau, who, in his tiny little mind and his arrogance, believe that their belief in a bunch of bronze age fairy tales allows them the right to spout hate filled rhetoric against a section of society that has already suffered enough.

As Keegan Hurst alluded to this morning on TV, have the Dragons sacrificed their values, if they had any in the first place, for the sake of a few extra points or climbing  a couple of places up the table?

Yet I see the argument you are trying to make. There are many people I admire whose opinion on certain subjects do not agree with my own - the important point is the subject matter to which the opinion is directed and how it is expressed. Plus, it's ironic that you mention the 'art of living' as I am currently studying Arts and Humanities with the OU!

However, I'm an atheist and Folau, through his religious based ignorance reminds me why I am. 

When you post on this forum you do so knowing that your post may elicit reactions from one or more people, as yours did from me.

And you were right that I did ask a rhetorical question in order to demonstrate the point that nothing Folau could say would affect the esteem in which you hold your son, which I would have expected you to appreciate. It was actually a supportive question.

If you object to people responding to your posts, it's probably best not to make them.

Keegan Hirst's opinion is as valid as anyone else's, but it is not the only one, and, as I mentioned earlier, a gay friend of mine who is a former professional player (although he hasn't come out publicly) has the opposite point of view. He can't wait to see Folau playing in Super League.

Whether Folau is ignorant or not, I really don't know. i suspect he is anything but ignorant of the Bible, but he has a skewed interpretation of it.

Like you, I am not religious, and I'm very glad that religious zealots don't have a major role in our society, although zealotry can take other forms.

 

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Just now, Bert1 said:

Why would you want a fake apology? He has stated he didn’t mean to cause offence, will not say anything more and has appeared in the past on the magazine supporting a gay rugby tournament. As mentioned before it should end now. People can rightly boo him from the stands etc but if it’s dragged out over the season people will start turning against the witch hunt.

Aah , no , witches are also going to hell as well , didn't you read the ' rant ' ? 😉

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Will be interesting to see if any mischievous journo tries to ask him some difficult questions, eg "will you be ignoring Exodus chapter 35 verse 2 this season?". "Why are you ignoring Leviticus chapter 19 verse 28?"

("Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day; a sabbath of rest to the Lord; whosoever doth work therein shall be put to death".)

("You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the LORD")

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Just now, Dave T said:

People hold all sorts of nasty thoughts and beliefs. We are not into brainwashing. 

Folau wasn't charged, arrested, whatever, his employer had a barney with him, which is within their rights. 

I agree with you here.

But what I’m saying is should somebody who, for example, strongly backs the KKK, be allowed to play RL for a living as long as they keep it to themselves? Or should we question players and ban accordingly? 
Should it apply only to people airing their views?

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