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Comment edited out as it was too far astray from the conversation at hand.

Edited by Dunbar

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Ask one ? , And I don't mean your average who goes to church for weddings , christenings and funerals 

Are you saying Sonny Bill doesn't actually believe that Israel Folau is going to hell ?

Ask one what? What is the premise of that question?

As an adult an adult you can choose your faith and grow disillusioned too. SBW has his faith and Folau has his. Islam has an interesting relationship with both Christianity and Judaism as of course they see both as part of their faith in some way. We're all "men of the book".

But regardless, just like Tony Blair, who often used his Northern Irish unionist credentials in his early years, we can choose our faith as adults. Folau has the ability to choose.

Faith is personal, until you make it public.

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9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Do you want to discuss it , or just post silly stuff ?

Honestly, both.  Do you think you don't choose your religion? (and if so, why?)

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20 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Ask one what? What is the premise of that question?

As an adult an adult you can choose your faith and grow disillusioned too. SBW has his faith and Folau has his. Islam has an interesting relationship with both Christianity and Judaism as of course they see both as part of their faith in some way. We're all "men of the book".

But regardless, just like Tony Blair, who often used his Northern Irish unionist credentials in his early years, we can choose our faith as adults. Folau has the ability to choose.

Faith is personal, until you make it public.

Yes I've just had a look , Israel should be ok , I'll be burning for eternity 

 

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes I've just had a look , Israel should be ok , I'll be burning for eternity 

 

So you can see that you do choose your faith? Unlike being gay.

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1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

You're a Catholic. Just say sorry to the Priest at Sunday Confession.

😉

JOC's more of a Saturday night man......

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1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

Flipping heck, we've already had 38 pages of whether Israel Folau should be debarred for thinking homosexuality is a deviant sexual behaviour liable to be punished by the Almighty. There's no need to make the situation worse by bringing goats into it.

The night we had the goats is a good tune. This lady likes a lot of fiddling:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu3VOljamik

Deaf Shepherd do an enjoyable version also.

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22 minutes ago, longboard said:

JOC's more of a Saturday night man......

Indeed. If not working on a Sat night, I’m usually at confession. To be fair, I’ve a lot to confess. 

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3 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

What ever we think of Folau he will put bums on seats and he will score try's for the Catalans and make them a force this season.

SBW will put bums on seats, but i don't think he will have the impact at the Wolfpack that Folau will have at the Catalans

dont mention falou,bums and force in the same sentence.do you want to go to hell

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5 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Indeed. If not working on a Sat night, I’m usually at confession. To be fair, I’ve a lot to confess. 

Aye, St Oddfellows Arms, is a comfortable chapel of ease.

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44 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

So you can see that you do choose your faith? Unlike being gay.

That's surely a difficult question to answer, as many people will say they found there religion rather than chose one over the others. Obviously some dill outright choose one, for whatever reason(s). But the majority of religious people I know either were brought up in one or "found" it in later life. 

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1 hour ago, Tonka said:

Honestly, both.  Do you think you don't choose your religion? (and if so, why?)

As I put , I'm talking about those who come knocking at you door ,those whose life is defined by their faith , not those who pay lip service to it , I regularily chat with the local ' Jehovah's ' when they call , a couple I've met separately on various projects , their passion is all encompassing , ask then and they'll tell you it chose them 

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Without wading through 40 pages. Folau's views are very disappointing in this day and age. Frankly I find it baffling that anyone still believes any of that nonsense and if I had it my way religion would be made illegal (but that's a whole other argument). 

However, whilst his views are pretty disgusting and potentially may upset some people, they are at the end of the day only views. He hasn't hurt anyone, he hasn't incited violence against gays or condoned anyone doing anything like that. People have been allowed to play in SL after doing much worse things. 

If Catalans feel like the bad publicity is worth it then that's up to them. But I certainly don't think he should be prevented from doing his job just because we don't like some of his ideas. 

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18 minutes ago, MZH said:

Without wading through 40 pages. Folau's views are very disappointing in this day and age. Frankly I find it baffling that anyone still believes any of that nonsense and if I had it my way religion would be made illegal (but that's a whole other argument). 

However, whilst his views are pretty disgusting and potentially may upset some people, they are at the end of the day only views. He hasn't hurt anyone, he hasn't incited violence against gays or condoned anyone doing anything like that. People have been allowed to play in SL after doing much worse things. 

If Catalans feel like the bad publicity is worth it then that's up to them. But I certainly don't think he should be prevented from doing his job just because we don't like some of his ideas. 

Agree with the sentiment but when the views are so out of kilter with societal norms then employing him becomes an endorsement. 

What if, for example, Folau's views on homosexuals was because he was a neo-Nazi complete with swastika and Combat 18 tattoos? I'd like to think that would make him unemployable by a rugby club.

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Just a thought though . SBW is against advertising that is against his belief system and the RFL have bent over backwards to accommodate him . What’s the thoughts on if each individual player acting that way . Based on the fact we would all like to see super stars in super league these guys are they have points we don’t like I am sure Wally , Mal, Ellery has unpalatable parts to there character , I just enjoyed watching them on grandstand . 
 

it’s all a bit complicated now isn’t it .  

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20 minutes ago, RMBJ said:

Agree with the sentiment but when the views are so out of kilter with societal norms then employing him becomes an endorsement. 

What if, for example, Folau's views on homosexuals was because he was a neo-Nazi complete with swastika and Combat 18 tattoos? I'd like to think that would make him unemployable by a rugby club.

 

20 minutes ago, RMBJ said:

Agree with the sentiment but when the views are so out of kilter with societal norms then employing him becomes an endorsement. 

What if, for example, Folau's views on homosexuals was because he was a neo-Nazi complete with swastika and Combat 18 tattoos? I'd like to think that would make him unemployable by a rugby club.

Mike Tyson is a CONVICTED rapist yet he was/ is endorsed by the media and was allowed to ply his trade . How in gods name is that ok but Israel not . 

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

As I put , I'm talking about those who come knocking at you door ,those whose life is defined by their faith , not those who pay lip service to it , I regularily chat with the local ' Jehovah's ' when they call , a couple I've met separately on various projects , their passion is all encompassing , ask then and they'll tell you it chose them

 

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

As I put , I'm talking about those who come knocking at you door ,those whose life is defined by their faith , not those who pay lip service to it , I regularily chat with the local ' Jehovah's ' when they call , a couple I've met separately on various projects , their passion is all encompassing , ask then and they'll tell you it chose them 

Yeah fair enough, I don’t really buy that though but then I don’t really believe in God so I don’t think there’s anything capable of choosing them.  I can accept that people may be raised with religion so to that extent don’t have a suite of religions to choose from objectively but I don’t think it’s the same as immutable characteristics e.g. being tall, being born in Pontefract, having blue eyes, being gay.

Edited by Tonka

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I thought this thread had plumbed the lowest possible depths yesterday, but it appears to have got far worse. 

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Firstly I seem to recall that most religious texts (Christian, Islamic or Jewish) preach forgiveness. Perhaps Israel deserves a bit of that and another chance

Secondly as said above he has only expressed his personal deeply held views. We are all entitled to our own views until the thought police come for us and in theory we are also entitled to express them unless it stirs up hatred. From what I have seen Folaus utterances probably do more for the LGBT community than harm. Most people are objecting to them and the common view is that his views are outdated. That message is being widely reinforced and as a result tolerance, understanding and respect are being shown to be the norm. 

Finally I think the bible says something about he without sin casting the first stone. There are a lot of people chucking stones at Folau who themselves probably have some non current views on different topics. Give him a chance but on the proviso that anything else is bringing the game into disrepute and will see him ejected 

  

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3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I thought this thread had plumbed the lowest possible depths yesterday, but it appears to have got far worse. 

Ok, anyway... - back to Rugby, how about a nice Double bet with Betfred- Israel for MOS and CATS to win the GF?

That's worth £20 I think! 

Roll on the new season!

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9 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Ok, anyway... - back to Rugby, how about a nice Double bet with Betfred- Israel for MOS and CATS to win the GF?

That's worth £20 I think! 

Roll on the new season!

Catalans price for the GF came in loads yesterday. 

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3 hours ago, dkw said:

That's surely a difficult question to answer, as many people will say they found there religion rather than chose one over the others. Obviously some dill outright choose one, for whatever reason(s). But the majority of religious people I know either were brought up in one or "found" it in later life. 

Nah, "finding it" is as good as choosing it.

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Perhaps the Super League people - club owners and Elstone - can explain to the public what they have done to prevent a repetition of this furore in the future.

They did mention poor timing.No doubt they will get round a table and discuss the topic as it is so important.Fairly quickly?

Banning quotations from religious publications may be a start.

We now have St Helens - the club who signed a cocaine taking,violent individual,and argued the toss about a suspension placed by the NRL - making a statement.

This,after the 'outburst' against a referee.

Just as well the player is in France as I am aware of the bullying/harassment in the workplace regulations for the UK.

Will the governing body ensure State of Mind liaise with the player?  He has been uprooted from the place he was familiar with;had to go through court procedure(s),and is now in a foreign country,and has this lot to contend with. 

There could very well be even more bad publicity,and suggestions of lack of care,for the important people in the sport... 

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     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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