Chrispmartha Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Dave T said: On this point, I tried to find details of where it leaves people in these circumstances i.e. do individuals have to accept being furloughed? Yes the employee has to agree to be Furloughed through consultation and the employee sets the terms, i.e Whether they can work for other companies etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 28 minutes ago, Bob8 said: I am well paid. I have not requested that my manager cut my wages. I am impressed that so many on this forum apparently have requested this for themselves. Until I do the same, I will not condemn anyone else for not doing so. Even then, I will obviously wait to know their full ciscumstances. Whilst I am fairly well paid and am still currently being paid my full salary I am by no means on Professional Footballer money I would understand if my employer asked me to take a reduction. I would be less impressed if they reduced the salaries of lower paid staff before mine, if anything I would expect to see a reduction before they did. I would suggest it's the same for football club employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Shadow said: Whilst I am fairly well paid and am still currently being paid my full salary I am by no means on Professional Footballer money I would understand if my employer asked me to take a reduction. I would be less impressed if they reduced the salaries of lower paid staff before mine, if anything I would expect to see a reduction before they did. I would suggest it's the same for football club employees. That is a fair point. The issue is that soccer is an artificial market, as teams are only allowed eleven players rather than taking on more playing staff to improve productivity and quality. It makes the players more like the luxury cars in a garage. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, Dave T said: On this point, I tried to find details of where it leaves people in these circumstances i.e. do individuals have to accept being furloughed? I had a “lay off” clause in my contract so was compelled to. In the Government details it encouraged companies to get employees to agree - so I guess it can vary from employer to employer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: Yes the employee has to agree to be Furloughed through consultation and the employee sets the terms, i.e Whether they can work for other companies etc. See my other post employment contracts vary from company to company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Bob8 said: That is a fair point. The issue is that soccer is an artificial market, as teams are only allowed eleven players rather than taking on more playing staff to improve productivity and quality. It makes the players more like the luxury cars in a garage. There is no point in making analgous comparisons to anything, it is a clear case in and of itself. Companies are asking their lower paid staff to take a pay cut for the good of the company while continuing to pay the best paid staff at their full rate. Either everyone should get the cut or no one should get the cut. Individuals can be Furloughed according to the needs of the business. It doesn't matter if the company makes cupcakes, ventilators or provides entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, Spidey said: See my other post employment contracts vary from company to company Yes they do, you are indeed correct, lay off clauses do change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Shadow said: There is no point in making analgous comparisons to anything, it is a clear case in and of itself. Companies are asking their lower paid staff to take a pay cut for the good of the company while continuing to pay the best paid staff at their full rate. Either everyone should get the cut or no one should get the cut. Individuals can be Furloughed according to the needs of the business. It doesn't matter if the company makes cupcakes, ventilators or provides entertainment. The issue is who benefits. In the case of a major football club, I would suggest the one who benefits from players taking a cut in wages would be the owner who gets some extra pocket money. Roman Abramovich will be fine either way and so will Chelsea FC. For the administrative staff of any company, I am in agreement. They will be treated more like employees rather than luxury assets. The question might be, if you were a player who was earning a forture and staff were being let go, would you put your hand in your pocket. I have been on a project that was put on hold, and in meant losing some administrative staff while a few of us who were seen as high performing were kept on and paid big money to wait, so that we were not lost to other projects. Generally, that latter group did make a decent contribution to the former, but it would not have been the business of any newspaper. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bob8 said: The issue is who benefits. In the case of a major football club, I would suggest the one who benefits from players taking a cut in wages would be the owner who gets some extra pocket money. Roman Abramovich will be fine either way and so will Chelsea FC. For the administrative staff of any company, I am in agreement. They will be treated more like employees rather than luxury assets. The question might be, if you were a player who was earning a forture and staff were being let go, would you put your hand in your pocket. I have been on a project that was put on hold, and in meant losing some administrative staff while a few of us who were seen as high performing were kept on and paid big money to wait, so that we were not lost to other projects. Generally, that latter group did make a decent contribution to the former, but it would not have been the business of any newspaper. We need to differentiate then between the principle and the practical here. The Principle being, if the disgustingly wealthy owners decide that they cannot support their loss making vanity project while no one is coming through the gate then everyone should get the same conversation about wage cuts. If for one of many reasons the players are paid at their full entitled ourageous levels then those players have a decision to make. A number of high profile current and former players have made very clear and principled stands, from the top of my head Gary Neville, Marcus Rashford, Ronaldo and Ryan Giggs have all made extremely generous donations of money and facilities. (imagine that, Ryan Giggs and Principled in the same sentence. We live in strange times) I would hope if I were fortunate enough to be in the same position I would be more Marcus Rashford than Alex Song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 3, 2020 Author Share Posted April 3, 2020 Nice to see Man Utd players giving up 30% of their wages to local NHS organisations. I've not heard of the club furloughing anyone either: Old Trafford stars earning up to £375,000-a-week have agreed to forgo 30 per cent of their wages for one month on the proviso that the money is used to benefit hospitals and health centres throughout Manchester in the fight against the coronavirus. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8184201/Manchester-United-stars-donate-NHS-coronavirus-fight-taking-30-wage-cut.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Damien said: Nice to see Man Utd players giving up 30% of their wages to local NHS organisations. I've not heard of the club furloughing anyone either: Old Trafford stars earning up to £375,000-a-week have agreed to forgo 30 per cent of their wages for one month on the proviso that the money is used to benefit hospitals and health centres throughout Manchester in the fight against the coronavirus. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8184201/Manchester-United-stars-donate-NHS-coronavirus-fight-taking-30-wage-cut.html The comment I saw on twitter is that by furloughing (or equivalent) the Glazers would benefit, this way the money goes to local hospitals. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 3, 2020 Author Share Posted April 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, gingerjon said: The comment I saw on twitter is that by furloughing (or equivalent) the Glazers would benefit, this way the money goes to local hospitals. Yeah which is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, Damien said: Nice to see Man Utd players giving up 30% of their wages to local NHS organisations. I've not heard of the club furloughing anyone either: Old Trafford stars earning up to £375,000-a-week have agreed to forgo 30 per cent of their wages for one month on the proviso that the money is used to benefit hospitals and health centres throughout Manchester in the fight against the coronavirus. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8184201/Manchester-United-stars-donate-NHS-coronavirus-fight-taking-30-wage-cut.html I remember reading but, as usual, can’t find the link when I want it that they are paying match day staff in full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 £375,000, a week!!! Bloody hell I don’t follow football, I honestly didn’t realise it was that out of control. That is obscene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Shadow said: There is no point in making analgous comparisons to anything, it is a clear case in and of itself. Companies are asking their lower paid staff to take a pay cut for the good of the company while continuing to pay the best paid staff at their full rate. Either everyone should get the cut or no one should get the cut. Individuals can be Furloughed according to the needs of the business. It doesn't matter if the company makes cupcakes, ventilators or provides entertainment. I don't believe many companies are furloughing 100% of their staff (that is from the limited articles highlighting individual cases). I don't see why it should be everyone or nobody tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dave T said: I don't believe many companies are furloughing 100% of their staff (that is from the limited articles highlighting individual cases). I don't see why it should be everyone or nobody tbh. It should by the spirit of the scheme be anyone who would otherwise be made redundant, so in reality, contrary to what I think should happen the football clubs are technically correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 3, 2020 Author Share Posted April 3, 2020 It seems that Premier League clubs have been stifled into action: Premier League clubs will ask players to take a 30% pay cut in order to protect jobs as it was announced the season will not resume until "it is safe and appropriate to do so". All clubs have agreed to put the proposed "combination of conditional reductions and deferrals" to players. The Premier League will give £125m to the EFL and National League, plus £20m to the NHS and vulnerable groups. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52148955 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said: Your contract may allow you to jump ship, a footballers contract may not That would depend on if they could demonstrate that Force Majeure is in effect. The clubs are unable to stage games, the players are unable to participate in games. Neither party is unable to fulfill their contractual obligations as things stand. There would be an argument for either Force Majeure or the contract being Frustrated, but it isn't guaranteed. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Click Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 23 hours ago, GUBRATS said: And yet as a self employed person , I can RL players aren't paid to train , they are payed to play Yes they are - It was kind of the point of the new professional era, no? If the players were only being paid match payments then you maybe right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 38 minutes ago, Click said: Yes they are - It was kind of the point of the new professional era, no? If the players were only being paid match payments then you maybe right. So they are RL trainers then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Dave T said: I don't believe many companies are furloughing 100% of their staff (that is from the limited articles highlighting individual cases). I don't see why it should be everyone or nobody tbh. I didn’t suggest Furloughing all or none, I suggested pay cuts for everyone or no one. furlough can be applied as per the needs of the business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Shadow said: I didn’t suggest Furloughing all or none, I suggested pay cuts for everyone or no one. furlough can be applied as per the needs of the business Ah yes. I don't disagree with that point. I think companies like this should be topping up to 100% anybody they furlough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share Posted April 4, 2020 Seems like Liverpool are choosing to use the furlough scheme too, to the outrage of their fans and ex players: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 On 03/04/2020 at 14:26, Chrispmartha said: £375,000, a week!!! Bloody hell I don’t follow football, I honestly didn’t realise it was that out of control. That is obscene The average premiership wage is £70K a week apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 13 hours ago, Damien said: Seems like Liverpool are choosing to use the furlough scheme too, to the outrage of their fans and ex players: He’s right . Spurs n Liverpool made 150 million profits . Non playing staff first to take a hit . Looks bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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