Placed where RL is non-existent

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Our of interest, what is the largest town within, say, 20 miles of the M62 that doesn't have EITHER a football team in the football league OR a pro (or semi-pro) Rugby League team?

Pontefract?

[Hopping Mad]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Southport was my first thought. Nineteen miles from St Helens, a team in non-league football and a population of 90,000+. Turns out Sale is fewer miles to the heartlands (Warrington) and has a bigger population. 

Southport FC were in the Football League until 1978. Replaced by Wigan Athletic (interesting coincidence!).

[Leyther_Matt]

38 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

I don’t know what it’s like now but At the George author Geoffrey Moorhouse, reflecting on when he started watching Wigan after the war, was taken aback by the large number of fellow Boltonians who joined him every week on the bus to Central Park. Does Bolton still have an amateur team?

Yes, Bolton Mets. Don’t think they have a junior set up though and are based at Bolton RUFC which is pretty basic by RU standards. It is also situated in a less salubrious area of town which is a bit of a rarity in my experience of RU clubs. 

Westhoughton Lions (alumni Ryan Brierley) have a junior set up, but undoubtedly benefit from being on the doorstep of Hindley and not far from Leigh.

There is certainly an ‘awareness’ of RL in Bolton, but certainly anyone with a regular interest in the game has an existing loyalty. Being a season ticket holder at Bolton Wanderers, I know of a few born-and-raised Boltonians who support one of Leigh, Warrington, Saints or Warrington. There is of course a certain blurring of lines, though, given we draw a lot of support from Leigh and certain areas of Wigan and Salford.

All that being said, it is utterly bizarre how quickly the trickle runs dry when going only a couple of miles outside of our heartland towns and really does illustrate the importance of the semi pro clubs in maintaining a presence in these areas.

Without wishing to draw away from the original subject but as something of a progression of the above, are there any ‘M62 areas’ that spring to mind as RL strongholds without the presence of a pro club? I certainly can’t think of any on this side of the Pennines that wouldn’t be deemed a suburb of an existing area (Haydock, Hindley etc) but I guess Cleckheaton or somewhere like that might fit the bill?

[Hopping Mad]

I guess any, or all three, of the Spen Valley towns - Cleckheaton, Liversedge and Heckmondwike - might count. Nicely positioned, in rugby league terms, between Bradford and the Heavy Woollen district.

Could a case be made for Ossett (a town in its own right)? 

Pontefract has been mentioned already. Don't Featherstone Rovers draw a lot of support from Pontefract?

[Leyther_Matt]

1 minute ago, Hopping Mad said:

I guess any, or all three, of the Spen Valley towns - Cleckheaton, Liversedge and Heckmondwike - might count. Nicely positioned, in rugby league terms, between Bradford and the Heavy Woollen district.

Could a case be made for Ossett (a town in its own right)? 

Pontefract has been mentioned already. Don't Featherstone Rovers draw a lot of support from Pontefract?

 

27 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Pontefract?

Without wishing to draw controversy from the district, I thought Featherstone was considered to be part of Pontefract (or at least Royal Mail seem to think so)? I know we certainly tend to see a few Fev shirts on our pre-match visits to the hostelries of Ponte Carlo.

(Sidebar - I’m a massive fan of the ‘glamorous’ nicknames for the towns in that area. Cas Vegas, Ponte Carlo, Feverley Hills and, my personal favourite, Vietnorm)

[paulwalker71]

Another that springs to mind is Selby 

 

[Hopping Mad]

8 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

(Sidebar - I’m a massive fan of the ‘glamorous’ nicknames for the towns in that area. Cas Vegas, Ponte Carlo, Feverley Hills and, my personal favourite, Vietnorm)

Vietnorm. Brilliant. Hadn’t heard that one.

[Eddie]

I know Runcorn is mainly Scouse overspill so naturally drawn to Liverpool and Everton, but given its size the crowds at the (now defunct) semi pro football and RL teams were tiny. I wonder if many people there support Widnes, or is it just all about the two North Liverpool teams. 

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Another that springs to mind is Selby 

 

Selby’s population is only about 15k? Classic early 90s GCSE case study about coal mining though. 

[Hopping Mad]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Selby’s population is only about 15k? Classic early 90s GCSE case study about coal mining though. 

The amateur rugby league club in Selby folded after showing a lot of promise. Shame, particularly given its link with activity in York.

[HarrogateKnights]

9 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Southport was my first thought. Nineteen miles from St Helens, a team in non-league football and a population of 90,000+. Turns out Sale is fewer miles to the heartlands (Warrington) and has a bigger population. 

Sale have Swinton Lions currently plying there but Southport is a good shout

[HarrogateKnights]

9 hours ago, Damien said:

Harrogate? probably a bit too far though.

Being from Harrogate I have actively being trying to draw an interest in Rugby League especially to York although we have a direct train line that goes to Headingley (then Leeds) and the other way to York so well connected but interest is low. You will see more Barcelona Messi shirts than rugby league or England Rugby Union. There are 2 amateur rugby union teams. 1 Pro football and 1 amateur football team (Harrogate Railway most likely to be linked to rugby league due to having a union pitch and because of location in Harrogate ) alot of the stigma of posh southerners in Harrogate is true, before the Coronavirus outbreak we had a monthly meeting I had a takeaway point to discuss setting up even a friendly match with a union side with RL rules, for fitness during the summer. Initial discussions were had but unfortunately coronavirus stopped that for the time being. Hoping to bring together something eventually, there is a Yorkshire mens side and Juniors in nearby Wetherby so no reason why we can't play at least one fixture a year. We would like to eventually get back Harrogate RLFC that disbanded in the 80s and play the spa cup friendly match against Bath. Work in progress..... 

[gingerjon]

13 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

I really find this an interesting subject I live half the year in Kent and am involved in Step 5 football Kent has more semi-pro non league clubs than most counties in England but only one league team (Gillingham) it all goes back to the 1920,s even top London teams were in the SOUTHERN LEAGUE which was seen as the main opposition to the FOOTBALL LEAGUE (Lancashire based in Lytham St Annes) slowly the top teams in London moved into the FOOTBALL LEAGUE however left over was a strong semi-pro set up in the South especially Kent.

Teams like Dover/Folkestone/Deal/Canterbury/Ramsgate would attract many Scottish players in the 1950/60,s who were (Similar to Rugby League players) miners there was more money for many working down the Kentish pits and playing football on Saturday part time in the SOUTHERN LEAGUE than staying up in Scotland.

I remember the Scottish international goalkeeper Ian Black even playing for Canterbury City.

Even now Kent League matches (Now named SCEFL) can attract excellent crowds we had over 900 at Chatham Town recently and at the level above a Herne Bay v Whitstable Town Derby can be 700/1000.

I agree that mainly sport is a one town thing unless its a larger city Leeds/Hull its in the blood better always to make the well known clubs areas strong and support new teams in areas with no main other sports (London excepted) 

 

Paul 

 

 

And as I found out the other day, Bradford (Park Avenue)'s first season as a professional club was spent in the Southern League.

(You then have the interesting (to non league perverts such as myself) and long-lasting distinction between the Southern and Isthmian leagues which essentially covered the same areas for much of their time - and are only now being shoehorned into a geographic split with the Isthmian being the southeast and Southern being south central/west.)

[Leyther_Matt]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

I know Runcorn is mainly Scouse overspill so naturally drawn to Liverpool and Everton, but given its size the crowds at the (now defunct) semi pro football and RL teams were tiny. I wonder if many people there support Widnes, or is it just all about the two North Liverpool teams. 

Runcorn Linnets were formed out of the ashes of Runcorn AFC and now have their own ground and still draw 300+ to matches. Runcorn Town have had a decent rise up the pyramid and can draw a couple of hundred on occasion as well. Not bad for a new town where I expect there isn’t necessarily an ingrained loyalty to the area. 

From a RL point of view, didn’t Widnes have a year (or two?) playing at the old Canal Street ground during their initial rebuild? No idea on what sort of crowds they attracted, mind. 

[Mr Frisky]

12 hours ago, Hopping Mad said:

The amateur game was always very strong in Cumberland (and, to a lesser extent, Westmorland). That goes right back to the establishment of the Northern Union.

Why it took so long for professional clubs - Whitehaven and Workington Town - to emerge from this strong amateur base, I don’t know. Workington, of course,  were an almost immediate success, in terms of crowds and results.

Yet you go just  10 or 15miles inland from Workington to Cockermouth and Keswick and surrounding villages dont know RL exists. Mainly these days due the local Cumbrians being forced out of the towns and Southerners moving in.

Strange around RU 6 nations time when Pubs in West Cumbria even dont bother showing even tye England games but the pubs in Keswick are packed.

[Hopping Mad]

1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

Yet you go just  10 or 15miles inland from Workington to Cockermouth and Keswick and surrounding villages dont know RL exists. Mainly these days due the local Cumbrians being forced out of the towns and Southerners moving in.

Strange around RU 6 nations time when Pubs in West Cumbria even dont bother showing even tye England games but the pubs in Keswick are packed.

Cockermouth has a rugby league team. But I agree with your point.

[tms]

Beverly east yorkshire 10 miles north of hull population 42000+

[del capo]

15 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Our of interest, what is the largest town within, say, 20 miles of the M62 that doesn't have EITHER a football team in the football league OR a pro (or semi-pro) Rugby League team?

Bury ?

[ATLANTISMAN]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

And as I found out the other day, Bradford (Park Avenue)'s first season as a professional club was spent in the Southern League.

(You then have the interesting (to non league perverts such as myself) and long-lasting distinction between the Southern and Isthmian leagues which essentially covered the same areas for much of their time - and are only now being shoehorned into a geographic split with the Isthmian being the southeast and Southern being south central/west.)

AHH Hastings (The Pilot Fields) see you have been getting some good gates recently.

I went to see (As a little boy) Bobby Smith play there also last year when my club played away at Deal Town there is a plaque and picture commemorating them playing Hastings United in the Bobby Smith match to this day one if not their largest home attendance:)

On another note I reckon a very large amount of London Broncos fans also follow a non league football team which makes for great and interesting conversations in the bar on match days:)

 

Paul

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

AHH Hastings (The Pilot Fields) see you have been getting some good gates recently.

I went to see (As a little boy) Bobby Smith play there also last year when my club played away at Deal Town there is a plaque and picture commemorating them playing Hastings United in the Bobby Smith match to this day one if not their largest home attendance:)

On another note I reckon a very large amount of London Broncos fans also follow a non league football team which makes for great and interesting conversations in the bar on match days:)

 

Paul

Only been in Hastings for a few years so most of the club history (and the odd interaction between Hastings Town, Hastings United and next door St Leonards FC is a bit unknown to me). The Pilot Field is an odd ground. You can lose a crowd of 700 in there.

My true soccer team is Aberystwyth Town but the green, green (artificial now) grass of Coedlan y Parc is just a bit too far for regular visits these days.

[longboard]

Pontefract, Chorley, Southport?

[longboard]

5 minutes ago, longboard said:

Pontefract, Chorley, Southport?

Southport is the biggest of those but it's a bit further than twenty miles.

[JonM]

7 hours ago, Eddie said:

I know Runcorn is mainly Scouse overspill so naturally drawn to Liverpool and Everton, but given its size the crowds at the (now defunct) semi pro football and RL teams were tiny. I wonder if many people there support Widnes, or is it just all about the two North Liverpool teams. 

I grew up there and walked over the bridge to watch Widnes. Plenty of people support Widnes, but obviously soccer is king as it is elsewhere. Widnes currently have a couple of first-teamers from Runcorn, the last Ashes winning GB squad had a Runcorn lad. Warrington have done a reasonable amount of marketing to the "Scouse overspill" parts of town in recent years. The new town has gradually expanded east to almost join Warrington. It's getting on for three generations since people moved out of Liverpool in the 1960s, so I think there's a market there, particularly for families, as premier league football is expensive and tickets are difficult to come by. 

I certainly wouldn't view it as a place that needs another club when there are two so close by.

[Plan of Attack]

7 hours ago, HarrogateKnights said:

Sale have Swinton Lions currently plying there but Southport is a good shout

Southport FC used to be in the football league untill 1978, when the club was voted out of the Football League following three consecutive 23rd (out of 24) placed finishes, and was replaced by Wigan Athletic

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, Plan of Attack said:

Southport FC used to be in the football league untill 1978, when the club was voted out of the Football League following three consecutive 23rd (out of 24) placed finishes, and was replaced by Wigan Athletic

The Sandgrounders, it was very sad as they’d been in the Third Division just a few seasons before after winning the fourth. 
My own childhood non-league team South Liverpool we’re big rivals with Wigan Athletic before they got in the league.