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Any reason St Helens and Hull Fc don't have any second name?


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The idea that this was something new inflicted on the game by SL is a nonsense. Sports clubs and yes even rugby league clubs have used tags - nicknames whatever you want to call them since day dot.

Things changed in 1991 when a n astute new board at Keighley decided to rebrand the club as Keighley Cougars and rename the ground as Cougar Park, a much more marketable name than Lawkholmers.

The rebrand caught the Keighley public's imagination and games became events.

This hadn't gone unnoticed  elsewhere but the ever conservative rugby league were slow to catch on to embrace what was a revolution in club marketing.

with the formation of Super League it was put to the clubs that they should make themselves more marketable to a wider audience by adopting better 'nicknames' than they already had, ones that could be used as marketing tools.

8 out of 12 clubs adopted new names in the first year of SL, St. Helens stuck with Saints and Workington stuck with Town, Wigan and Halifax remained as just that.

Wigan adopted Warriors as a marketing brand in 1987, the shirt that season had an imprint of a Warriors head but the badge just carried the name Wigan Rugby League it was a few years later that the club used the name  Wigan Warriors. Halifax became Blue Sox as recommended by  Nigel Wood, enough said.

1982/83 Season listed nicknames of clubs.

Barrow - Shipbuilders

Batley - Gallant Youths

Blackpool - Milers

Bradford Northern - Northern

Bramley - Villagers

Cardiff City - Blue Dragons

Castleford - Glassblowers

Doncaster - Dons

Featherstone Rovers - Colliers

Fulham - Londoners

Halifax - Thrum Hallers

Hull - Airlie Birds

Hull KR - Robins

Keighley - Lawkholmers

Leeds - Loiners

Oldham - Roughyeds

Rochdale Hornets - Hornets

St. Helens - Saints

Salford - Red Devils

Swinton - Lions

Wakefield Trinity - Dreadnoughts

Warrington - Wire

Whitehaven - Haven

Widnes -- Chemics

Wigan - Riversiders

Workington Town - Town

York - Wasps

Not listed with a nickname are Carlisle,  Dewsbury, Huddersfield (Fartowners), Hunslet (Parksiders) and Huyton.

Edited by Padge
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I always thought the most ridiculous was Wakefield's.  Why add a third word to an already excellent and historically relevant name?  Dropping 'Wildcats' was an excellent move!

We've been here before but here goes: Catchy names are easier to sell. You can't market a 'Wire' or a 'Northern' or a 'Glassblower' or a 'Roughyed' or a 'Loiner' to a new audience. Therefore it m

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9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The Chemics was a great nickname, so much better than Vikings. 

You can't sell cuddly 'Chemics'.

 

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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14 hours ago, wiganermike said:

Hull did adopt a nickname, they were Hull Sharks during the late 90s. They were in financial trouble (or heading for it) when they were merged with the original Gateshead Thunder club. The resultant club stayed based in Hull and dropped the Sharks moniker which was unpopular anyway, reverting to the historic Hull FC. Other clubs such as Halifax, Oldham and Whitehaven also dropped their soubriquets.

As Man of Kent said St Helens having already been long known as the Saints had no need to come up with a new marketable nickname and possibly didn't stick it on the end as a club name beginning with Saint and ending in Saints would look a little silly when written down. I don't think Workington Town ever added a new nickname either.

I have friends who to this day still have the Hull sharks badge tattooed 

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1 hour ago, Padge said:

1982/83 Season listed nicknames of clubs.

Featherstone Rovers - Colliers

This was always a nickname imposed from outside by journos etc, in nearly 50 years supporting Fev I don't think I've ever heard any of our fans or anyone connected with the club calling us "the Colliers". It's not even a term you'd hear often anyway (nobody ever talks about the 1984 colliers' strike after all).

 

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

No one was forced and St Helens were definitely introduced as St Helens Saints on the TV at the time - whether anyone actually called them that or not.

I remember reading various articles at the time saying that it was and a couple of years later actually spoke to Peter Deakin at Bradford, Dave Swanson at Wigan the person over marketing at Leeds, whose name escapes me, quite extensively on what they had implemented and why as part of my dissertation. Peter Deakin was great and the Leeds person was great. Both full of great ideas and plans and it was fairly obvious why those clubs had the success with the name change and associated marketing that they had. I cant say I was that impressed with Dave Swanson or what Wigan were doing and it perhaps shows that it was never embraced there in the same way.

This exert says that pseudo-American nicknames were instituted at the request of BSkyB. I cant copy from the page but you can see for yourself:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zWf4AAAAQBAJ&pg=PT132&lpg=PT132&dq=pseudo-american+team+nicknames&source=bl&ots=8ng0Idr-lb&sig=ACfU3U02srPqwT1BLdkhH7WXRJoMgVG9ZQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVq66735LpAhVkMewKHTglAw8Q6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=pseudo-american team nicknames&f=false

 

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2 hours ago, Eddie said:

The Chemics was a great nickname, so much better than Vikings. 

I agree, but when I was a bit sniffy and dismissive of 'Vikings' as the Widnes nickname on another thread some time ago, I was taken to task - quite rightly, it transpired - because there apparently is some Viking history in the Widnes area.

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3 hours ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

The Trinity bit was actually removed.  The Wildcats moniker and logo was awful. Still see a few unfortunate tattoos about.  

Had the three Wakefield area clubs merged, Trinity would have been an excellent name for the new entity.  

True, but 'Holy' or 'Unholy'!

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I think the thread intimates the main reason - there are official nicknames that are part of the title, and there are other nicknames/appellations etc. that are in common use. 

In the example of St Helens, they have been known as the Saints since the dark ages; it's simply unnecessary to add Saint to St (Saint).

In the example of Hull FC, simply using Hull would leave potential confusion with the other Hull, particularly for those more loosely connected with RL.  As I guess the fans are happy with the FC, there's no need for Sharks or whatever.

It has been commented that Wire and Chemics would not work in the official names, but the current situation allows these traditional names to be used alongside the newer nicknames which have some popularity. Everyone can be happy.

Passage of time seems to determine which nicknames stick. The Rhinos and Tigers seem to be here to stay, but Wildcats and City Reds are gone forever I guess.

I wonder what are the most likely nicknames to disappear next.

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1 hour ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

This was always a nickname imposed from outside by journos etc, in nearly 50 years supporting Fev I don't think I've ever heard any of our fans or anyone connected with the club calling us "the Colliers". It's not even a term you'd hear often anyway (nobody ever talks about the 1984 colliers' strike after all).

 

I can remember Fev were gunna be called The Pirates which  wasn't well received but there was plenty of merchandise with the Pirate logo on them. 

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1 hour ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

This was always a nickname imposed from outside by journos etc, in nearly 50 years supporting Fev I don't think I've ever heard any of our fans or anyone connected with the club calling us "the Colliers". It's not even a term you'd hear often anyway (nobody ever talks about the 1984 colliers' strike after all).

 

Nobody ever called Wigan The Riversiders but that was their 'official' nickname. SImilar with Halifax being Thrum Hallers, supporters would just call them Fax.

The first Wigan team was named Wigan Wasps, these names have been around for years, some worked, Rochdale Hornets, most didn't. This sort of stuff is not a product of SL.

 

 

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

I remember reading various articles at the time saying that it was and a couple of years later actually spoke to Peter Deakin at Bradford, Dave Swanson at Wigan the person over marketing at Leeds, whose name escapes me, quite extensively on what they had implemented and why as part of my dissertation. Peter Deakin was great and the Leeds person was great. Both full of great ideas and plans and it was fairly obvious why those clubs had the success with the name change and associated marketing that they had. I cant say I was that impressed with Dave Swanson or what Wigan were doing and it perhaps shows that it was never embraced there in the same way.

This exert says that pseudo-American nicknames were instituted at the request of BSkyB. I cant copy from the page but you can see for yourself:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zWf4AAAAQBAJ&pg=PT132&lpg=PT132&dq=pseudo-american+team+nicknames&source=bl&ots=8ng0Idr-lb&sig=ACfU3U02srPqwT1BLdkhH7WXRJoMgVG9ZQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVq66735LpAhVkMewKHTglAw8Q6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=pseudo-american team nicknames&f=false

 

Not one single reference for any of that, pure supposition on the part of the Author. The Author mentions WIgan Warriors as an example, Wigan didn't add that at the start of SL.

How come Wigan and Halifax and Workington Town didn't run with it.

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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5 minutes ago, Padge said:

Not one single reference for any of that, pure supposition on the part of the Author. The Author mentions WIgan Warriors as an example, Wigan didn't add that at the start of SL.

How come Wigan and Halifax and Workington Town didn't run with it.

There were all sorts of dispensations at the start of Super League regarding a whole host of things. All teams had one come SL2 bar Saints.

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For me, there is nothing worse than 150-year-old clubs feeling the need to conform to the American trend of (usually) picking a random animal to name the team after!

I was very happy to read a couple of years ago that the "Hunslet Hawks" voted to drop the "Hawks" and go back to being Hunslet RLFC.  Suits them much better in my opinion.  I think there might have been another club that did this recently too (Halifax perhaps?), cannot remember which one(s).

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6 minutes ago, langpark said:

For me, there is nothing worse than 150-year-old clubs feeling the need to conform to the American trend of (usually) picking a random animal to name the team after!

I was very happy to read a couple of years ago that the "Hunslet Hawks" voted to drop the "Hawks" and go back to being Hunslet RLFC.  Suits them much better in my opinion.  I think there might have been another club that did this recently too (Halifax perhaps?), cannot remember which one(s).

Halifax dropped the Blue Sox tag, how bad was that! And I think Whitehaven were Warriors at one bit, or something similar.

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Doncaster RLFC will always be the Dons, a title they share with MKDons and AberdeenFC.

On one of the occasions they went bust, 'rag' was inserted to differentiate as they became Dragons but worse was to  come when they became Doncaster Lakers after the nearby Lakeside shopping outlet. Not only is the name artificial  but so too is the lake.

 

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A nickname ought to have some geographic and or historical significance.  But no matter what... the main point is to be a marketing tool.  Such things really are or ought to be important.   I mean as an analogy I suggest the point that regiments have flags, or 'colours'. On a more mundane level, companies have logos and sometimes have a 'tag line'. (anybody remember Makeson?) So the issue really is marketing.

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3 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

A nickname ought to have some geographic and or historical significance.  But no matter what... the main point is to be a marketing tool.  Such things really are or ought to be important.   I mean as an analogy I suggest the point that regiments have flags, or 'colours'. On a more mundane level, companies have logos and sometimes have a 'tag line'. (anybody remember Makeson?) So the issue really is marketing.

Makeson Stout is still available.

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