2020 Challenge Cup

[Hela Wigmen]

7 hours ago, wiganermike said:

They can't be given byes to round 6 next year realistically. 8 SL teams enter at that stage, add on the 5 non-SL clubs and that leaves only 3 places open. The other 4 SL clubs enter at round 5 meaning that the other 21 Championship and League 1 clubs plus all the community clubs would have to be whittled down to 2 round 4 winners (to get to 6 teams in round 5 to produce 3 winners). That would mean 4 teams in round 4, 8 in round 3, 16 in round 2 from 32 teams in round 1 ( the 21 non-SL plus 11 community clubs). The cup format is contrived enough without basically playing a 32 team cup with the reward for the "finalists" being the chance to get pasted by a lower end SL club.

A more realistic solution could be a home friendly against the intended cup opponent for each of the 5 before the 2021 season starts.

A home friendly is a gigantic slap in the face and the sort of arrogance the lower leagues accuse Super League of. 

[Just Browny]

On 24/07/2020 at 09:16, Just Browny said:

Good question isn't it.

I think you start with trying to help the five Champ/L1 clubs get to the start line, and agree a deadline (next week) for them to agree whether they participate.

Once you know how many clubs are willing to play a game on 22/23 August, you work out how to get to 8 teams to fulfil a QF line-up. Incidentally, if it's 10 teams, this isn't too difficult: you do a draw wherein six teams get a bye and the other unlucky 4 play a double-header on 22 August for the two remaining places.

All of this needs to be decided very quickly though.

Do I get some commission for this?

[Moove]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/53565124

Redraw of the sixth round confirmed

[wiganermike]

5 minutes ago, Moove said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/53565124

Redraw of the sixth round confirmed

Good that it is sorted. This was always the most sensible approach after it became apparent only ten clubs were left.

I bet we still get drawn against Warrington.

[wiganermike]

5 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

A home friendly is a gigantic slap in the face and the sort of arrogance the lower leagues accuse Super League of. 

Slap in the face or not it would still have potential for a larger crowd than the 0 that could have attended the cup ties and is the only workable way of compensating for the situation.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, wiganermike said:

Slap in the face or not it would still have potential for a larger crowd than the 0 that could have attended the cup ties and is the only workable way of compensating for the situation.

It really isn’t the only workable way. It alienates thousands, damages the credibility of the competition further and just isn’t a particularly fair way of compensating sides. 

The clubs need some form of compensation in terms of qualification for the competition next year. 

[tms]

2 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Good that it is sorted. This was always the most sensible approach after it became apparent only ten clubs were left.

 

 who's going to shout the loudest when they have to play at Huddersfield on 22 August.

[wiganermike]

3 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It really isn’t the only workable way. It alienates thousands, damages the credibility of the competition further and just isn’t a particularly fair way of compensating sides. 

The clubs need some form of compensation in terms of qualification for the competition next year. 

Look at what I posted describing what would need to happen to facilitate giving the 5 a bye to round 6 next year. That mess would do far more damage to the credibility of the cup than offering a money making game outside of the cup as I suggested.

Giving them a compensatory bye sounds like a nice idea but it simply is not practical. Enough people are against the 1895 Cup and that has a Wembley final and a trophy whereas the fudge required to give those byes would in effect be an 1895 Cup campaign that culminates in a pasting by a SL team in front of a much smaller crowd.

[Hela Wigmen]

3 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Look at what I posted describing what would need to happen to facilitate giving the 5 a bye to round 6 next year. That mess would do far more damage to the credibility of the cup than offering a money making game outside of the cup as I suggested.

Giving them a compensatory bye sounds like a nice idea but it simply is not practical. Enough people are against the 1895 Cup and that has a Wembley final and a trophy whereas the fudge required to give those byes would in effect be an 1895 Cup campaign that culminates in a pasting by a SL team in front of a much smaller crowd.

Extraordinary circumstances sees extraordinary changes.

Eh? You think Sheffield v Hull in a friendly in say January is going to be better attended than their cup game would have been a month or so ago? 

[wiganermike]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Extraordinary circumstances sees extraordinary changes.

Eh? You think Sheffield v Hull in a friendly in say January is going to be better attended than their cup game would have been a month or so ago? 

Seeing as the permitted crowd for their cup tie would be 0 then yes, even if one man and his dog turn up in January. If it is arranged now then the clubs have between 5 and 6 months to sell what would be the first game in 10 months for their fans to see in person. If they can't do that what are they bothering for?

For extraordinary substitute unfortunate. A bye to round 6 is a nice idea in theory but in practice it simply does not work.

[Griff]

19 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Look at what I posted describing what would need to happen to facilitate giving the 5 a bye to round 6 next year. That mess would do far more damage to the credibility of the cup than offering a money making game outside of the cup as I suggested.

Giving them a compensatory bye sounds like a nice idea but it simply is not practical. Enough people are against the 1895 Cup and that has a Wembley final and a trophy whereas the fudge required to give those byes would in effect be an 1895 Cup campaign that culminates in a pasting by a SL team in front of a much smaller crowd.

The top eight don't have a God given right to get byes to the last 16.

[wiganermike]

Just now, Griff said:

The top eight don't have a God given right to get byes to the last 16.

That is the format of the Challenge Cup though so we have to abide by it. How would you set about justifying to 5 SL clubs that in order to compensate 5 teams that had to withdraw from round 6 this year that you will punish them by bringing them in at round 4 next year (one of them at round 3 in Newcastle's place)? I imagine their response would be short and rhyme with Joe.

[Hela Wigmen]

12 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Seeing as the permitted crowd for their cup tie would be 0 then yes, even if one man and his dog turn up in January. If it is arranged now then the clubs have between 5 and 6 months to sell what would be the first game in 10 months for their fans to see in person. If they can't do that what are they bothering for?

For extraordinary substitute unfortunate. A bye to round 6 is a nice idea in theory but in practice it simply does not work.

Pedantic. More people would have, under the old normal, turned up for the Cup game than a pre-season friendly in the depths of winter in January. 

The Challenge Cup format needs changing anyway, this a way to get that ball rolling. 

[wiganermike]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Pedantic. More people would have, under the old normal, turned up for the Cup game than a pre-season friendly in the depths of winter in January. 

The Challenge Cup format needs changing anyway, this a way to get that ball rolling. 

I would be planning a spending spree and celebrating had my numbers come out of the euromillions machine. They didn't though. Just as the normal progress of the cup didn't happen. The cup fixtures that will happen won't have crowds except possibly for the last two rounds. I'm not being pedantic, just realistic. Following your logic we should compensate the SL clubs for loss of gates based on those that would have been expected for the ties they will play. The circumstances of the withdrawal are very unfortunate but that is all they are.

A friendly against the expected cup opponent with as much as 6 months to sell it is a reasonable compromise. I haven't seen any request for a bye or compensation for the cup withdrawal from the clubs concerned though.

Changing the format of the cup should be done for reasons of improving its appeal to the fan-base, viability and attractiveness to broadcasters and sponsors not as an emotional reaction to an unfortunate incidence of clubs withdrawing in one year.

[Griff]

10 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

That is the format of the Challenge Cup though so we have to abide by it. 

It's not been like that forever.  It's changed and it can change again.  It can even be changed back to what it was before it changed.

We don't have to abide by anything.

[Tommygilf]

15 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Pedantic. More people would have, under the old normal, turned up for the Cup game than a pre-season friendly in the depths of winter in January. 

The Challenge Cup format needs changing anyway, this a way to get that ball rolling. 

Get us the group stages

[wiganermike]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

It's not been like that forever.  It's changed and it can change again.  It can even be changed back to what it was before it changed.

We don't have to abide by anything.

It is the format at this time (and possibly set in stone for the length of the current broadcast and sponsorship deals). As I posted in response to Hela Wigmen the format of the cup should only be changed in order to improve its appeal to the fan-base, its viability and its attractiveness to sponsors and broadcasters. Not as an emotional response to an unfortunate one off incidence of withdrawals.

[Hela Wigmen]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Get us the group stages

Disagree, myself. Well, I wouldn’t necessarily be against it if it meant away games at places we don’t normally get to go to but I can’t see Super League clubs wanting to swap loop games against Super League opposition with games against lower league opposition. 

[NERugbyDad]

Newcastle Thunder's confirmation of withdrawl from the Challenge cup:

https://www.thunderrugby.co.uk/general/thunder-look-to-2021/

 

[Rupert Prince]

3 hours ago, wiganermike said:

Good that it is sorted. This was always the most sensible approach after it became apparent only ten clubs were left.

I bet we still get drawn against Warrington.

Yes and yes...

It is the right and obvious thing to do.  I would call the competition by a new name and not have it on the CC records. 

There is also some comments elswhere about how the format might be changed.  I believe it can.   A pool system including SL and any survivors of the lower leagues would produce a few games which would help fill in time and reduce loop fixtures. Say a pool of 20 teams with the leading 8 going into a quarter final. SL teams could be seeded to a certain extent.

There would be 2 significant competitions. First the CC and then the regular league fixtures and grand final.

 

[Griff]

37 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Yes and yes...

It is the right and obvious thing to do.  I would call the competition by a new name and not have it on the CC records. 

There is also some comments elswhere about how the format might be changed.  I believe it can.   A pool system including SL and any survivors of the lower leagues would produce a few games which would help fill in time and reduce loop fixtures. Say a pool of 20 teams with the leading 8 going into a quarter final. SL teams could be seeded to a certain extent.

There would be 2 significant competitions. First the CC and then the regular league fixtures and grand final.

 

No thanks.

 

[JonM]

Four teams playing in Round 6, giving two games for the BBC. The other six teams given a bye to the quarter-finals. Seems to me the RFL made a sensible decision.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

13 minutes ago, JonM said:

Four teams playing in Round 6, giving two games for the BBC. The other six teams given a bye to the quarter-finals. Seems to me the RFL made a sensible decision.

I'll let you know after the draw. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 hour ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

I'll let you know after the draw. 

When is the draw?

[spanishknight]

13 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

When is the draw?

Wednesday at 6.30