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"We've got a bit of a PR issue lads, in that we're seen as a small-town sport with no ambition and an actual hostility towards anyone who might actually want to attract new fans to the game." "Wh

From the fourth largest city in North America to a satellite town of Wigan. Small towns, small ambitions, small chance of expansion. Great chance of remaining small, parochial and northern. 

Congratulations to Leigh Centurions. If every club in the system had to go through this process then they would be one of the top 12 candidates so full credit to them. I hope they give it a great crac

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Because they played one match at the Union stadium and got 10,000 in apparently 

Is there a reason you're discussing Toulouse, this is a Bradford thread, you know.

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52 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Have they announced whether there even is promotion and relegation next year yet? Can’t say I’ve seen much beyond the twenty-seven rounds that are planned and if I was a chairman of a club allowed to apply, I think I’d want to know what was on the table before I applied because as it’s been pointed out, there’s an argument that it’s best not to apply and hope you win the Championship organically in 2021, though that is easier said than done. 

 

In Elstone's interview with Dave Woods last week he confirmed there would be p&r next year. 

I maintain my position that the smart move is to stay in the championship this year and seek to get promoted on am orderly fashion, rather than be bounced up and almost certainly come straight back down. 

The only way that might change is if some PE investment comes in - which Elstone seems very enthusiastic about - which funds an expansion. He said it wouldn't go toward paying of debts. That might mean we get promotion, but not relegation next year. 

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I was just answering a question 😂

Yeah but you need to answer it on a Toulouse thread really Gubby this is all about the Bulls and lets face it over the years they've not had many thread they could call their own, have they?

 

3 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

The only way that might change is if some PE investment comes in - which Elstone seems very enthusiastic about - which funds an expansion.

PE investment in Super League used to fund expansion; Did you wander in here from an alternate universe?

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3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

14 team SL with two up two down, anything less is stagnation and less incentive for either teams  in the championship to get better or teams in the lower reaches of SL to get better. Some teams are clearly happy finishing 10th or 11th and taking the money, nobody wants to see that. 

Who could you possibly mean? 😂

It's not true. No team is happy to finish in the bottom half of the table. All teams want to be competitive and win things.

However, the reality is that every year half the teams will finish in the bottom half of the table. The disparity of income means that some clubs are more likely to finish there than others, but it's not guaranteed  (Leeds / Warrington). 

The odds are stacked against smaller clubs even with financial backing (Hull KR / Huddersfield) and it is extremely difficult to break into the top tier of successful clubs (GF winners) e.g. Hull/Warrington 

For me, 2 up 2 down from 14 would be too unstable. 2 of those would probably the same 2 clubs yo-yoing every year. Impossible to build any stability like that. 

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Have they announced whether there even is promotion and relegation next year yet? Can’t say I’ve seen much beyond the twenty-seven rounds that are planned and if I was a chairman of a club allowed to apply, I think I’d want to know what was on the table before I applied because as it’s been pointed out, there’s an argument that it’s best not to apply and hope you win the Championship organically in 2021, though that is easier said than done. 

I think it's been hinted that there will be P&R, but they would have to say that wouldn't they?

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1 hour ago, Snowys Backside said:

 

RL ran by dicks though, so a game of eenie meanie miny mo should suffice 😆

Do you think their ability runs as far as a game of rock, paper, scissors?

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10 hours ago, Oxford said:

Yeah but you need to answer it on a Toulouse thread really Gubby this is all about the Bulls and lets face it over the years they've not had many thread they could call their own, have they?

 

PE investment in Super League used to fund expansion; Did you wander in here from an alternate universe?

SL expansion comes in many shapes and forms: for instance numbers rather than locations. It could easily be adding Bradford and Newcastle rather than Toronto and Toulouse. But neither of those scenarios is possible without more money into the game. 

If you listen to the interview, I was just struck how bullish Elstone was about PE and what it could achieve.  He clearly alluded to the roadblock being one or two holdouts among the owners (Hetherington?)  For him, securing a PE investment is probably his legacy, given the TV deal is unlikely to grow. And I tend to think it probably is the only option left to try to avert the pattern managed decline we seem to be in.     

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4 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

SL expansion comes in many shapes and forms: for instance numbers rather than locations. It could easily be adding Bradford and Newcastle rather than Toronto and Toulouse. But neither of those scenarios is possible without more money into the game. 

If you listen to the interview, I was just struck how bullish Elstone was about PE and what it could achieve.  He clearly alluded to the roadblock being one or two holdouts among the owners (Hetherington?)  For him, securing a PE investment is probably his legacy, given the TV deal is unlikely to grow. And I tend to think it probably is the only option left to try to avert the pattern managed decline we seem to be in.     

This argument, the #heartlandexpansion can cover a lot of sins it's true. It just defies logic as much as an Oxford  merger/extinction.

Throwing Newcastle in with Bradford as if they wre both expansion somehow is snake oil salesmanship at it's best.

Whatever his legacy the managed decline you allude to is a direct product of language being stretched till it means little but serves to disguise a lack of vision, purpose and development.

PE seems a crock to me as well. Looks like fodder for people who believe the good intentions of rich characters on the "dragons den" and looks like a pile of debt and a foreclosure issue to me. And knowing how business people see the world and the  stretching of language mergers and take overs comes to mind.

 

 

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20 hours ago, matt newsholme said:

Cost is main issue. Figures banded around when we were looking at alternatives to Odsal were more than double cost of Odsal and a lot of fans refuse to travel to Valley Parade due to surrounding area. i'd imagine RFL would insist on us playing at Odsal anyway to get their rental income back.

What’s wrong with the surrounding area at valley parade 

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4 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Hmmm.... I'm guessing the area is not very 'inviting'.  

From memory, and I’ve probably not been to Valley Parade for 10+ years now, it was pretty residential. Admittedly, there wasn’t many pubs from what I can remember but that can be said of many stadia in many sports. 

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17 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

All the signals coming from Elstone & Co and the media is that the SL chairmen have decided to "Run with the Bulls Yeah alright !" * and if it does not work out for the RFL -  there's always stock car racing at Odsal

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/18895708.readers-react-odsal-looks-set-host-stock-cars-soon/

* anyone remember that from the late 1990's

What as it got to do with the SL Chairmen? It is supposedly an independent panel making the decision.😉

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11 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Do you think their ability runs as far as a game of rock, paper, scissors?

M A in RPS from the Breitbart Mendacity University to you!

 

1 minute ago, MattSantos said:

When's the decision made?

Depends on who you ask!

Keep an eye  open for this

1787525581_smokegets.JPG.a266bbf1b4ee6b92746dc940346d2de7.JPG But just remember

 

"They said, "Someday you'll find,
All who love are blind.
Oh-oh-oh-oh, when your heart's on fire,
You must realize,
Smoke gets in your eyes."

 

 

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12 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

When's the decision made?

I don't believe that the deadline for submissions has yet passed. The decision is due to be made by Dec 16th.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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13 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

This is my worry too. It's not about 2021, it's what happens in 2022 and beyond.

If the 12th club is seen as a place holder to fulfil current sky requirements and are fully expected to be immediately relegated, which club would want that? Maybe Bradford would enjoy the limelight and being associated with SL again?

My choice would be Toulouse.

If they bottle it with worries over covid, then 2nd choice would be London - although I'm not sure how strong a position they're in after 2020.

Could they give the promoted club a second bite of the cherry to retain their place by including them in some kind of play-off with the top championship team(s)?

In a fantasy world I'd promote Toulouse for next year then sky have an epiphany and agree to extra funding to allow 14 teams from 2022. This will allow no relegation and adding 2 championship clubs (London & York).

After which a return to 1 up 1 down for 2023 where Newcastle replace Castleford 😉

I think a club is prepared to gamble, believing that the level at the bottom of SL is not particularly great. 

They have some evidence of that with some cup games, the S8s, and London's effort with minimal spend. Bring able to invest a few hundred thousand on top of their current squad may just be enough to see them leapfrog an existing club. 

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15 hours ago, Dave T said:

That's all a slightly different discussion though. 

It's a massively different discussion Dave, especially the exemption from relegation that Chris and others suggest, every team in the process would relish that opportunity and so in my opinion it should be earned not just handed to them, I don't care if it is a French team because it may assit them them getting a TV deal, London who are after 40 years of existance is still deemed as needing help and assistance, or York because they have just acquired a shiney new stadium, have a better coach, recruted better than they have done for a long time had better on field results in the last 2 or 3 seasons and have a catchment area that people may or may not attend York's games, it is all supposition. And Bradford very little money by all accounts, zero credit rating if reports are true, no home or returning to a stadium better suited to penning swine or sheep, and a team that is in most probability the worst of all the contenders in the process, in their favour they do have some loyal fans but will others return and if they do go back to Odsal how many safely with awarded certification can they house, is there enough room for visiting fans In a capacity not exceeding 5,000 as has been suggested?

Only 2 full season's ago (dismissing this season) Leigh averaged 6,500 in SL with 5,500 average home attendees, Fev has done more than most in picking themselves up their facilities are a credit to their endeavours,and their team is not bad either, Widnes would come into the mix if 3 years exemption from relegation was on offer and I wouldn't discount Fax from giving it a good go. 

It would come down to who wanted it most, who would be prepared to speculate to accumulate the substantial rewards on offer that 3 years of full funding would give, it may be disastrous for some clubs to try only to fail but that would be in their own respect, it would be down to money, Mr Beaumont was very rational last year when he stated that it was futile to compete against the wealth of Mr Argyle so he would wait until 2020 to invest to try to secure promotion, with 2020 being a 'washout' he has pushed on again and has taken a concerted effort to do so, along with Toulouse, Fev, and to a lesser extent York who have also recruited to be competitive in gaining promotion, it would be a complete smack in the face of trying to improve your lot if a club was just handed exemption from relegation and I would include my own should not, in fact it is downright abhorrent if it was to happen.

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15 hours ago, Father Ted said:

Should be Toulouse.

City of around 480,000 people and pretty wealthy too. The HQ and main manufacturing plant of the aircraft is in the city. The club are in a new (ish) stadium and share with the Union club. Very good facilities.

They will attract a larger attendance than all the other applicants plus they'll probably be able draw on greater sponsorship be it local, regional and maybe national companies.

Toulouse are a far better prospect for SL than any other of the applicants.

I hope Toulouse get the nod, but there is nothing to substansiate anything you said that means they will get bigger crowds than all the other applicants, or sponsership will come rolling in, and oh and you missed out they will definatley get a good TV deal in France that is usually the most most prominent supposition we get for Toulouse's inclusion in SL.

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14 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Have they announced whether there even is promotion and relegation next year yet? Can’t say I’ve seen much beyond the twenty-seven rounds that are planned and if I was a chairman of a club allowed to apply, I think I’d want to know what was on the table before I applied because as it’s been pointed out, there’s an argument that it’s best not to apply and hope you win the Championship organically in 2021, though that is easier said than done. 

 

Yes, there will be.

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44 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think a club is prepared to gamble, believing that the level at the bottom of SL is not particularly great. 

They have some evidence of that with some cup games, the S8s, and London's effort with minimal spend. Bring able to invest a few hundred thousand on top of their current squad may just be enough to see them leapfrog an existing club. 

Which could equally apply to both Fev and Leigh. 

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