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You ` struggle to see what the love for V`landy`s is..` given the directionless incompetence that is driving the game in your part of the world into oblivion, that`s priceless. Rugby League southern h

Brisbane 2, NZ 2 and conferences are still possibilities! Brisbane 2 estimated to be worth $50 million a year to the NRL. https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2021-second-bri

The gaming laws obviously had an impact in sucking some talent south. But to say that without that there’s some alternate history available with strong Bush sides and a similar number of viable teams

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Redcliffe is rich due to pokies and investing the money in local assets.  The ground is barely better than a park (there are nicer small football stadia in Brisbane, with actual covered stands). It might be the best place to locate training facilities etc though.

The sensible option for Brisbane is a second team playing out of Suncorp, not picking one of the Qld Cup teams. You get immediate economies of scale in terms of using the stadium, access to all the corporates in Brisbane, and it immediately gives a second team a bit of an aura. You also avoid the potential for fans from other Qld Cup teams not wanting to back the team because they think its just Redcliffe levered into the NRL.

Should point out that whilst Redcliffe itself is quite a large area with its population is tiny (just 10,000 something according to Wiki, which seems a bit low), it has "Gold Coast" issues all over it - most of the wealthy that live there have moved from elsewhere (including interstate), whilst there are still a lot of long time residents living in poorer housing. The Gold Coast ought to be forever used as an example as to how high level stats on population, wealth and population growth have very little to do with building a successful sporting franchise. 

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On 29/01/2021 at 16:20, The Great Dane said:

Anyway, it was pretty fun hearing the opinions of a Pom on NRL expansion.

Yeah what do they know about Oz or expansion, let's get real!

Of course it could the RFL book of 1000 ideas how not to expand a sport.

Would be compulsory reading for many.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

A successful NRL team? 

Depends what you mean by success.  Not realistic to expect a new team to compete in the NRL.  I doubt anyone barring that teams fans would expect that.

There are hidden gems playing in the lower leagues, some good players available off contract every year.  

Whichever team gets the opportunity will have to present it with explanation and be approved in their team development plan, short, med & long term.  There will be pressure from the media and expectations from the fans but I don’t think the NRL as a governing body expect early success on the pitch.  Development of Plans and success in delivery, definitely.

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56 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Depends what you mean by success.  Not realistic to expect a new team to compete in the NRL.  I doubt anyone barring that teams fans would expect that.

There are hidden gems playing in the lower leagues, some good players available off contract every year.  

Whichever team gets the opportunity will have to present it with explanation and be approved in their team development plan, short, med & long term.  There will be pressure from the media and expectations from the fans but I don’t think the NRL as a governing body expect early success on the pitch.  Development of Plans and success in delivery, definitely.

I actually think a new team will be expected to compete and win straight out if the gates. And the NRL will hopefully give them every opportunity to do so as they know that expansion or a new team can only really be successful off field with on field success.

Melbourne Storm won the NRL grand final in only their second year.

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1 hour ago, AB90 said:

I actually think a new team will be expected to compete and win straight out if the gates. And the NRL will hopefully give them every opportunity to do so as they know that expansion or a new team can only really be successful off field with on field success.

I disagree with this. It`s a hostage to fortune if a new club`s only appeal is success on the field. They have to be more strategically imaginative.

The Titans made the top 4 in their third and fourth year, and were pulling good crowds. Then it tailed off badly when they started losing more than they won. The Cowboys struggled on the field for the best part of a decade, but still managed to consolidate the franchise off the field.

These considerations apply equally to established clubs and the competition as a whole. Since there is no formula ensuring every team wins every week, the game can`t grow in popularity merely by promoting success on the field.

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21 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I disagree with this. It`s a hostage to fortune if a new club`s only appeal is success on the field. They have to be more strategically imaginative.

The Titans made the top 4 in their third and fourth year, and were pulling good crowds. Then it tailed off badly when they started losing more than they won. The Cowboys struggled on the field for the best part of a decade, but still managed to consolidate the franchise off the field.

These considerations apply equally to established clubs and the competition as a whole. Since there is no formula ensuring every team wins every week, the game can`t grow in popularity merely by promoting success on the field.

Yeah, I guess successful expansion shouldn't be 100% determined by one field success but it does greatly help.

Compare Melboure Storm and Gold Coast Titans and flip their respective onfield historical results. If the Titans had Melbourne's on field success by winning titles, always finishing in the top 4 etc I imagine they would be in a far better position now. 

You don't want to do a 'London Broncos' and just exist to avoid relegation. That's not real expansion in my opinion.

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3 hours ago, AB90 said:

If the Titans had Melbourne's on field success by winning titles, always finishing in the top 4 etc I imagine they would be in a far better position now. 

I certainly agree with that. If the Titans had been half as successful as the Storm, they`d probably be in the top 4, maybe even top 2, for attendances. 

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3 hours ago, AB90 said:

I actually think a new team will be expected to compete and win straight out if the gates. And the NRL will hopefully give them every opportunity to do so as they know that expansion or a new team can only really be successful off field with on field success.

Melbourne Storm won the NRL grand final in only their second year.

Why not use Gold Coast or even Canberra?  I think Canberra were an expansion team and entered what was the NSW League.  Took them 5 years to get into the finals and had a team of players who could probably compete very well today.  So, expected, maybe, but realistically will be dependant on who is available to recruit.  Melbourne could’ve have just struck it lucky compared to GC or Canberra.  

NRL players off contract now, in Australia, is around 40.  Off contract in 2021 is just short of 200.  Obviously, being off contract doesn’t mean they will leave their Club but it does mean the new Club would get a shot at recruiting them.   

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On 01/02/2021 at 21:13, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

A successful NRL team? 

Manly is a failing business, playing out of a ground that should be condemned, with restricted room to grow their fan base, whose owner has be looking to offload them for years now.

So yeah they might have had success on the pitch, but as a business they are a relict of a by gone era that desperately needs to modernise or they are going to be totally left behind.

Unfortunately for that modernisation to happen it's going to require them to broaden their appeal outside of the Northern Beaches to all of Northern Sydney, which is something they've been totally unwilling to do. It's also going to require a new stadium in a centralised location in Northern Sydney, when realistically there's nowhere where that stadium could be built and no interest from the government to fund it.

So in other words if they were an American sports team they would have relocated years ago.

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12 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Manly is a failing business, playing out of a ground that should be condemned, with restricted room to grow their fan base, whose owner has be looking to offload them for years now.

So yeah they might have had success on the pitch, but as a business they are a relict of a by gone era that desperately needs to modernise or they are going to be totally left behind.

Unfortunately for that modernisation to happen it's going to require them to broaden their appeal outside of the Northern Beaches to all of Northern Sydney, which is something they've been totally unwilling to do. It's also going to require a new stadium in a centralised location in Northern Sydney, when realistically there's nowhere where that stadium could be built and no interest from the government to fund it.

So in other words if they were an American sports team they would have relocated years ago.

Not my neck of the woods but I've heard from Manly fans that on the odd occasion they've tried to do things in North Sydney, outside of Manly, the Bears get very agitated and NSWRL shuts them down.

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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58 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Manly is a failing business, playing out of a ground that should be condemned, with restricted room to grow their fan base, whose owner has be looking to offload them for years now.

So yeah they might have had success on the pitch, but as a business they are a relict of a by gone era that desperately needs to modernise or they are going to be totally left behind.

Unfortunately for that modernisation to happen it's going to require them to broaden their appeal outside of the Northern Beaches to all of Northern Sydney, which is something they've been totally unwilling to do. It's also going to require a new stadium in a centralised location in Northern Sydney, when realistically there's nowhere where that stadium could be built and no interest from the government to fund it.

So in other words if they were an American sports team they would have relocated years ago.

Isn’t a state & federal funded centre of excellence and a northern 3000 seat grandstand now under construction which means Manky won’t be going anywhere else.

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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

Manly is a failing business, playing out of a ground that should be condemned, with restricted room to grow their fan base, whose owner has be looking to offload them for years now.

So yeah they might have had success on the pitch, but as a business they are a relict of a by gone era that desperately needs to modernise or they are going to be totally left behind.

Unfortunately for that modernisation to happen it's going to require them to broaden their appeal outside of the Northern Beaches to all of Northern Sydney, which is something they've been totally unwilling to do. It's also going to require a new stadium in a centralised location in Northern Sydney, when realistically there's nowhere where that stadium could be built and no interest from the government to fund it.

So in other words if they were an American sports team they would have relocated years ago.

They don’t have the lowest crowds in Sydney though do they? 

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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

playing out of a ground that should be condemned,

What, worse than Wakey or Cas! And I thought teams playing out of s#it tips was a British problem, at least that’s what some will have you believe.

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8 hours ago, nadera78 said:

Not my neck of the woods but I've heard from Manly fans that on the odd occasion they've tried to do things in North Sydney, outside of Manly, the Bears get very agitated and NSWRL shuts them down.

It is a problem that in the past the Bears and NSWRL have made a stink about Manly's attempts to grow outside of the Northern Beaches, but the reality is that they have almost no real power over Manly. So the Bears could kick and scream all they want, but aside from when in comes to juniors clubs, there'd be nothing that they could actually do to stop Manly.

Frankly, Manly and it's fans often use the Bears and NSWRL as an excuse because they aren't willing to make the changes necessary to make meaningful moves into the rest of NS. 

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7 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Isn’t a state & federal funded centre of excellence and a northern 3000 seat grandstand now under construction which means Manky won’t be going anywhere else.

Lipstick on a pig.

The new stand doesn't change the fact that Brookvale is in a terrible location that is hard to get in and out of, or that the other stands need to be knocked down, or that there's a huge lack of amenities, etc, etc. Long term you might see a minor boost in average attendance, but that isn't going to be enough to fix their issues.

What they, and Northern Sydney more generally, needed was a new modern stadium with good links to public transport, a mini Bankwest if you will.

The problem is that there was never really is a suitable location for something like that, or the political will to make it happen, and it definitely won't happen in the next few decades now that these upgrades have been built.

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7 hours ago, Eddie said:

They don’t have the lowest crowds in Sydney though do they? 

Sure, but they also don't have any other major income streams, or the means to invest heavily into building new ones quickly, which makes them almost totally reliant on their football operations to turn a profit, and they simply aren't profitable enough to keep pace with the constantly increasing costs of running an NRL club.

In other words other clubs have lower attendance, but they aren't as reliant on their attendance to build a sustainable footy club as Manly is. With the exception of Cronulla, who are in a similar situation to Manly in this regard, all the other clubs have way more room to grow their fan bases locally as well.

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