Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[DavidM]

In terms of a participation agreement what is there to discuss ? And in terms of rebuilding relationships only one side needs to be doing that . The NRL/ Commission side should apologise for screwing up the WC this year and for all the trouble they’ve caused , commit completely and immediately to the WC next year , and start selling it like hell until the tournament . Unfortunately I don’t think they do humility or conciliation so I’m not holding my breath on their part . They make everything outside their bubble hard work 

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

League will give him something that can he can take around the world.

Not if he is threatened with donning a face mask, it will stay in NSW and Q'Land.

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Here`s my prediction, 5 years and you will be eating your words.

Before he got the job there were people saying he could do for League what Ecclestone did for F1.  V`landy`s is more ruthless than even I thought, NSW Racing wasn`t big enough for him, League will give him something that can he can take around the world.

You`re upset at the moment and your angry, but as I said, 5 years.

I'm not getting into an argument about V'Landys but his track record so far does not impress me in the slightest. Scuppered the World Cup, renegotiated a reduced TV deal for pretty much no reason which saw the money given to RU and has caved into clubs about a 17th team and NRL expansion.

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Loads of positive stuff in there. Great to hear. I think it's right to continue calling it 2021, as so much merchandising (logos) etc. will have that on there already.

Indeed.

And, yes, it was highly positive. 

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, DavidM said:

In terms of a participation agreement what is there to discuss ? And in terms of rebuilding relationships only one side needs to be doing that . The NRL/ Commission side should apologise for screwing up the WC this year and for all the trouble they’ve caused , commit completely and immediately to the WC next year , and start selling it like hell until the tournament . Unfortunately I don’t think they do humility or conciliation so I’m not holding my breath on their part . They make everything outside their bubble hard work 

The optimum word in that is AGREEMENT, it does not matter who draws up the document, a signature will only be placed if it suits.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Harry Stottle

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Here`s my prediction, 5 years and you will be eating your words.

Before he got the job there were people saying he could do for League what Ecclestone did for F1.  V`landy`s is more ruthless than even I thought, NSW Racing wasn`t big enough for him, League will give him something that can he can take around the world.

You`re upset at the moment and your angry, but as I said, 5 years.

I mean, he's already killed off the World Cup, reduced your TV deal and ended expansion.

You're right.

Within five years of his inspirational leadership the NRL could be curtain raisers for the W-League.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The NRL can't buy anything with an IOU, which is all they would be able to muster.

Free State of Origin tickets for SL chairmen/owners....who could refuse a freebie to the best representative sporting contest in the world?

[gingerjon]

Just now, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Free State of Origin tickets for SL chairmen/owners....who could refuse a freebie to the best representative sporting contest in the world?

I'd like to say the rugby league couldn't be sold so cheaply but then I remember Groupon deals for Challenge Cup final tickets ...

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

The Australians don't strike me as people who are ambivalent about international sport. I would say that they're equally as passionate about it as we are in the UK. They love the Ashes cricket, they watch the Wallabies, they are watching in increasing numbers their football team, they love the Olympics, and I'm sure they love international RL too, when it's of a certain standard.

That last bit is the key, and it's absolutely NO different to us. We (England) don't bother playing Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and loads of other teams, because the administrators know that very few people are interested. The crowd would be poor, and the game would probably even lose money. We're not a load of sheep who would sell out Old Trafford for RL matches against Scotland, just because we're all so blindly in love with international RL.

The sad reality is that a lot of international RL is considered ######, by most people. And that includes most RL fans in England. That's why so few fixtures are ever arranged, and why when they are, the crowds are poor. It's also the reason why England play All Star teams.

I didn't say the Australians are ambivalent about International Sport. 

I said the NRL are ambivalent about International Rugby League.

The ambivalence is an amalgam of the players desire to play in it and the administrators fear of the competition for the hearts and minds of spectators, (whose only option now is State of Origin). Vlandys made it quite clear, he doesn't care what the players want, he's protecting their flagship competition.

My point is, until this mismatch between the IRL desires (for growing International RL family) and the NRL loathing for the prospect of beefed up International competition, they (the NRL) will continue to thwart our hopes and dreams.

Efficient growth of the sport globally requires the antipodes to be onside. 

By the way, as an aside, I take issue with you speaking for ''most people''. You don't know what ''most people'' think at all, and even if you were right, I stand by the legitimacy of promoting International RL to the people that don't think it's rubbish.

This World Cup was expecting to exceed all previous ticket sales and viewing figures.

So it really doesn't matter what ''most people'' think as long as the minority that do enjoy watching it, is sufficient to pay the bills. 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

10 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I said the NRL are ambivalent about International Rugby League.

The ambivalence is an amalgam of the players desire to play in it and the administrators fear of the competition for the hearts and minds of spectators, (whose only option now is State of Origin). Vlandys made it quite clear, he doesn't care what the players want, he's protecting their flagship competition.

My point is, until this mismatch between the IRL desires (for growing International RL family) and the NRL loathing for the prospect of beefed up International competition, they (the NRL) will continue to thwart our hopes and dreams.

Efficient growth of the sport globally requires the antipodes to be onside. 

This.

And by proxy growth of the UK/French domestic game. Sadly, I don't think SL has much more desire for a thriving international scene than the NRL. Not that it's their remit but still. The whole sport seems ambivalent (or hostile) to international competition. It's incredibly frustrating. The lack of England games on home soil after 2013 was unforgivable.

[Bedford Roughyed]

8 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

The whole sport seems ambivalent (or hostile) to international competition.

Because they are reactive and spend so much time firefighting other issues (UK anyway).  International RL helps the sport long term, which is great, but harder when you are already on a shoestring.  

[Tex Evans Thigh]

3 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Because they are reactive and spend so much time firefighting other issues (UK anyway).  International RL helps the sport long term, which is great, but harder when you are already on a shoestring.  

yet it might not be on a shoestring if there was a thriving international game. "sorry not got time to implement the solution, I'm too busy perpetually dealing with the problem"

Edited August 5, 2021 by Tex Evans Thigh

[Bedford Roughyed]

1 minute ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

yet it might not be on a shoestring if there was a thriving international game. "sorry not got time to implement the solution, I'm to busy perpetually dealing with the problem"

Oh I agree 100%, but that step from reactive to proactive is massive.  (and is why the RFL should control the game not SL, as it need long term plans and dare I say vision). )

[Tex Evans Thigh]

1 minute ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Oh I agree 100%, but that step from reactive to proactive is massive.  (and is why the RFL should control the game not SL, as it need long term plans and dare I say vision). )

Completely agree. Also why having a toothless IRL is such a detriment to the game globally. 

[DoubleD]

43 minutes ago, Damien said:

We will see the NRLs appetite for a World Cup in 2022 if they bring the NRL season forward so that our World Cup finishes before the Football one. 

True, but I did read the NRL mention that or maybe it was their mouthpiece Gould

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Some nuggets from Dutton at the postponement press conference.

• 85% of players surveyed via the RLPA said they wanted to play.
• The BBC broadcast arrangements are unaffected by moving to 2022.
• RLWC2021 expects to be in a stronger financial position than 2021 as they can do more commercial deals - they've had new approaches since the initial 'selfish, parochial and cowardly' decision for some "really interesting" prospects that could well be announced soon.
• They have drafted provisional 2022 dates with the FIFA World Cup very much in mind, i.e. RLWC 2022 will end before that starts.  
• The fixtures will remain the same, eg. England vs Samoa will be game one, although some venues may have to be switched around (although he expects the same host cities to remain onboard). 
• The 2022 schedule is due to be published - and tickets will go back on sale - before Christmas.
• They've started "positive conversations" with the ARLC about signing a participation agreement for 2022, and they are having conversations with Andrew Abdo and a number of NRL chief executives with the aim of strengthening relations between relevant governing bodies.
• It will still be called Rugby League World Cup 2021 (not 2022).

I read this and to me I did wonder:

• If 2022 allows more freedom for players/fewer restrictions, potential for travelling fans, the BBC broadcast agreement would carryover unaffected and the RLWC would financially be better off, then why wasn't this decision made earlier?

It does all point to a power battle and it's got messy on both sides. Dutton has been exemplary throughout, and remains a positive figurehead, which is needed. I hope him and Abdo come together to reach agreement. The cloud remains on what NRL's intentions are for the International board and how Troy Grant's position will be - he's on the Chasing Roos podcast tomorrow so we'll find out more detail then

Edited August 5, 2021 by DoubleD

[Big Picture]

40 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I didn't say the Australians are ambivalent about International Sport. 

I said the NRL are ambivalent about International Rugby League.

The ambivalence is an amalgam of the players desire to play in it and the administrators fear of the competition for the hearts and minds of spectators, (whose only option now is State of Origin). Vlandys made it quite clear, he doesn't care what the players want, he's protecting their flagship competition.

My point is, until this mismatch between the IRL desires (for growing International RL family) and the NRL loathing for the prospect of beefed up International competition, they (the NRL) will continue to thwart our hopes and dreams.

Efficient growth of the sport globally requires the antipodes to be onside. 

By the way, as an aside, I take issue with you speaking for ''most people''. You don't know what ''most people'' think at all, and even if you were right, I stand by the legitimacy of promoting International RL to the people that don't think it's rubbish.

This World Cup was expecting to exceed all previous ticket sales and viewing figures.

So it really doesn't matter what ''most people'' think as long as the minority that do enjoy watching it, is sufficient to pay the bills. 

Unfortunately there's only one way to get the antipodes onside and that's for the game in the northern hemisphere to have a big counterweight to the NRL which can generate more money than the NRL does and provide a place where players from other NH countries (in addition to England) can be full time pros so that NH Internationals can be events which are competitive.  Until that happens the Aussies will hold all the cards.

 

[The One]

I might get some stick for this but listening to the press conference has annoyed me a bit tbh. Not once did anyone mention fans who have bought tickets and whether they were taken into account. I fully appreciate there are other more important voices, but with the press release as well, fans who have put money into the tournament seem to be an after thought.

[The Rocket]

44 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not getting into an argument about V'Landys but his track record so far does not impress me in the slightest. Scuppered the World Cup, renegotiated a reduced TV deal for pretty much no reason which saw the money given to RU and has caved into clubs about a 17th team and NRL expansion.

 

38 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I mean, he's already killed off the World Cup, reduced your TV deal and ended expansion.

You're right.

Within five years of his inspirational leadership the NRL could be curtain raisers for the W-League.

I`ve seen these points thrown up a few times and it`s just nonsense.

The afl took a bigger hit than the NRL on their TV deal, they were both in unchartered territory and the broadcasters took advantage of it.

Expansion isn`t over, no one says it is, but when the NRL are spending $45m+(25m pound) and the clubs have lost $20m+(12m pound) in revenue, they have rightly postponed the decision till later in the year.

I don`t like the way they`ve done it, but the WC will be on next year and four years after that.

There`s been a lot of upset people on here and everyone`s thrashing about but do you really honestly think this bloke is going to be satisfied with a game that only exists in NSW,QLD, NZ and the Pacific Islands, people who know him far better than me have said, he could be the Bernie Ecclestone for Rugby League, the best thing that everyone could do is to get behind him, not more rooster on dung heap stuff, any way as I said, 5 years and you`ll be eating your words.

 

[Tommygilf]

16 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Oh I agree 100%, but that step from reactive to proactive is massive.  (and is why the RFL should control the game not SL, as it need long term plans and dare I say vision). )

It needs strategy.

If we want England to play 8 international games a season, with at least 1 in London, 1 in Leeds, and 1 outside the heartlands it requires a strategy (to get the opposition if nothing else).

If we want Super League to be an elite competition it needs strategy.

If we want the WF postcode to have a single stadium worthy of Super League, it requires a strategy.

If we want France to have representation in Super League it needs strategy.

Hand to mouth, short termist, sleepwalking from issue to issue decision making is not strategy. Our sport is simply not big enough to take the potential hits a random sporting model can present.

[DoubleD]

6 minutes ago, The One said:

I might get some stick for this but listening to the press conference has annoyed me a bit tbh. Not once did anyone mention fans who have bought tickets and whether they were taken into account. I fully appreciate there are other more important voices, but with the press release as well, fans who have put money into the tournament seem to be an after thought.

Not sure which one you listened to but Dutton has made an address specifically to fans 

[Honor James]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Some nuggets from Dutton at the postponement press conference.

• 85% of players surveyed via the RLPA said they wanted to play.
• The BBC broadcast arrangements are unaffected by moving to 2022.
• RLWC2021 expects to be in a stronger financial position than 2021 as they can do more commercial deals - they've had new approaches since the initial 'selfish, parochial and cowardly' decision for some "really interesting" prospects that could well be announced soon.
• They have drafted provisional 2022 dates with the FIFA World Cup very much in mind, i.e. RLWC 2022 will end before that starts.  
• The fixtures will remain the same, eg. England vs Samoa will be game one, although some venues may have to be switched around (although he expects the same host cities to remain onboard). 
• The 2022 schedule is due to be published - and tickets will go back on sale - before Christmas.
• They've started "positive conversations" with the ARLC about signing a participation agreement for 2022, and they are having conversations with Andrew Abdo and a number of NRL chief executives with the aim of strengthening relations between relevant governing bodies.
• It will still be called Rugby League World Cup 2021 (not 2022).

All the above taken into account, there is still no excuse for arrogance.

At least, not for me.

My grandmother used to say 'handsome is as handsome does', and no verbal whitewash can ever change what has just happened in the world of Rugby League, into anything other than an exceedingly unhandsome display of arrogance.

Not arrogance, I am sure, within the NRL player community. Rugby League players generally learn, at a very early age, that their game does not easily swallow and move on in the face of on-field arrogance. A lesson which, for the most part, they later carry with them for life.

But at NRL owner and administrator level?

There are currently athletes in all disciplines, from countries all over the world taking part in an omni-discipline Olympic Games.

One must therefore assume - from this almost overnight, unilateral decision - that in Australia and New Zealand there has secretly existed a previously unknown, entirely different interpretation of what was once ubiquitously known (within the English speaking world) as `sporting behaviour'.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Honor James
punctuation preference

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

 

I`ve seen these points thrown up a few times and it`s just nonsense.

The afl took a bigger hit than the NRL on their TV deal, they were both in unchartered territory and the broadcasters took advantage of it.

Expansion isn`t over, no one says it is, but when the NRL are spending $45m+(25m pound) and the clubs have lost $20m+(12m pound) in revenue, they have rightly postponed the decision till later in the year.

I don`t like the way they`ve done it, but the WC will be on next year and four years after that.

There`s been a lot of upset people on here and everyone`s thrashing about but do you really honestly think this bloke is going to be satisfied with a game that only exists in NSW,QLD, NZ and the Pacific Islands, people who know him far better than me have said, he could be the Bernie Ecclestone for Rugby League, the best thing that everyone could do is to get behind him, not more rooster on dung heap stuff, any way as I said, 5 years and you`ll be eating your words.

 

The AFL also taking a hit on their TV deal is irrelevant.

Expansion is over. Expanding into another bit of Brisbane was already pushing the word 'expansion' into a parallel meaning and that is now the limit of the NRL's ambition. You've surrendered domestically to AFL and internationally to, well, every sport that isn't the AFL.

The RFL didn't make a loss last year. The NRL lost $24m. Good work.

There's no guarantees we'll have a World Cup next year and, if we do, it will be because of the work of everybody aside from the NRL. The same will be true if there's a World Cup that follows.

I'll judge him, and the NRL, on his actions and right now everything he's touched in rugby league has turned to failure.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Honor James said:

All the above taken into account, there is still no excuse for arrogance.

At least, not for me.

My grandmother used to say 'handsome is as handsome does', and no verbal whitewash can ever change what has just happened in the world of Rugby League, into anything other than an exceedingly unhandsome display of arrogance.

Not arrogance, I am sure, within the NRL player community. Rugby League players generally learn, at a very early age, that their game does not easily swallow and move on in the face of on-field arrogance. A lesson which, for the most part, they later carry with them for life.

But at NRL owner and administrator level?

There are currently athletes in all disciplines, from countries all over the world, taking part in an omni-discipline Olympic Games.

One must therefore assume - from this almost overnight, unilateral decision - that in Australia and New Zealand there has secretly existed a previously unknown, entirely different interpretation of what was once ubiquitously known (within the English speaking world) as `sporting behaviour'.

Indeed! As exemplified by the Australian Cricket team!

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, The One said:

I might get some stick for this but listening to the press conference has annoyed me a bit tbh. Not once did anyone mention fans who have bought tickets and whether they were taken into account. I fully appreciate there are other more important voices, but with the press release as well, fans who have put money into the tournament seem to be an after thought.

Everyone who bought tickets or who registered an interest has had a direct email. There are direct statements to fans on the website and on social media.

Do you want him to come and knock on your door?