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Funding cuts could mean the end for Coventry Bears


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14 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

Or maybe what might be better where the two Welsh clubs are concerned is for both West Wales and North Wales to merge and  form a new club for Wales like NZ Warriors did in the NRL.Call it something like Wales or Welsh Warriors and base them somewhere like Cardiff or Newport.Yes I did initially say keep it in North Wales but maybe upon reflection it would be better in say Cardiff or Newport as you have a very good catchment area.

I think that this is terrible idea.

On the face of it, with Cardiff being the biggest city and a rugby mind set it may make sense. But, history has shown that Cardiff does not work. That rugby mind set is unfortunately set against rl.

North Wales however seems to be starting to work. Union is not as strong in the north ( compared to the south). Access to players from the heartlands is easier and now in Colwyn there is a base that can grow.

As for WW, despite a torrid start they are still there. I am not sure it is sustainable but if the backers are prepared to fund the experiment good luck to them. I really hope they can pull it off.

The one thing that the cut in funding has done is for the club's to start thinking out off the box. Evolve and change or die....its as simple as that. Interesting times ahead.

 

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Ron Banks

Midlands Hurricanes and Barrow

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3 minutes ago, Bearman said:

I think that this is terrible idea.

On the face of it, with Cardiff being the biggest city and a rugby mind set it may make sense. But, history has shown that Cardiff does not work. That rugby mind set is unfortunately set against rl.

North Wales however seems to be starting to work. Union is not as strong in the north ( compared to the south). Access to players from the heartlands is easier and now in Colwyn there is a base that can grow.

As for WW, despite a torrid start they are still there. I am not sure it is sustainable but if the backers are prepared to fund the experiment good luck to them. I really hope they can pull it off.

The one thing that the cut in funding has done is for the club's to start thinking out off the box. Evolve and change or die....its as simple as that. Interesting times ahead.

 

Fair points.
And yes clubs will indeed have to adapt and think out of the box.

As for your club Coventry I totally disagree with what Keighley have said or purported to have said.I think clubs like Coventry have potential.

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15 hours ago, clwydianrange said:

Depends on the players. Would you do the same job for 80% wages. After all they’re paid next to bug ger as it is. They need some recompense for the effort they give to entertain us every week.

I imagine the wages (which are mainly I would guess, PPG and win bonuses) are the least of the problems of an 80% cut. Stadium hire, travel, admin costs....

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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20 minutes ago, Bearman said:

On the face of it, with Cardiff being the biggest city and a rugby mind set it may make sense. But, history has shown that Cardiff does not work. That rugby mind set is unfortunately set against rl.

Has history shown this? Or has it shown that the people of Cardiff are not interested in watching a struggling lower league club?

However, I agree with you in that I can't see the plan of WWR and NWC merging and becoming a winner - it would just dissolve 2 lower league clubs and replace them with 1 lower league club, which would likely struggle and attract little interest.

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37 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Has history shown this? Or has it shown that the people of Cardiff are not interested in watching a struggling lower league club?

There have been at least two failed attempts take pro RL to Cardiff.In the late 40's early 50's. Then again in the 80's.

Going back to the days of yore to the Northern Union they tried to get a foothold in the valleys and the area in and around Cardiff. The last attempt was South Wales Raiders in the 2010's this didn't work and they moved further West.

So I think it is fair to say that the the Cardiff and indeed S.Wales has been tried and the whole South Wales experiment has failed.......so far😎

 

 

 

 

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Ron Banks

Midlands Hurricanes and Barrow

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43 minutes ago, Bearman said:

There have been at least two failed attempts take pro RL to Cardiff.In the late 40's early 50's. Then again in the 80's.

Going back to the days of yore to the Northern Union they tried to get a foothold in the valleys and the area in and around Cardiff. The last attempt was South Wales Raiders in the 2010's this didn't work and they moved further West.

So I think it is fair to say that the the Cardiff and indeed S.Wales has been tried and the whole South Wales experiment has failed.......so far😎

Thanks for the reply. I'm not convinced that anything that was done as far back as the 40s/50s bears much relation to current consumer habits in the 2020s. Also, I think the common denominator with all of the other attempts that you have mentioned is that they involve underfunded, struggling lower league clubs. This is unfortunately the common denominator with most of the game's expansion efforts in the past 40 years. If we're calling those attempts failures because of lack of spectator interest, then that accusation could also be levelled at numerous heartlands clubs. It always annoys me when people use it as a stick to beat expansion with by saying that Southerners/Welsh/Geordies (insert as appropriate) aren't interested in Rugby League, when in reality the crowds and ticket sales for the limited number of top level fixtures played in those areas would suggest that they can attract comparable spectators to many 'heartlands' clubs.

It would be fascinating to see what would have happened in a parallel universe if the RFL had struck when the iron was hot and put a properly funded Cardiff team in to Super League in 1996 on the back of the 1995 World Cup.

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25 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It always annoys me when people use it as a stick to beat expansion with by saying that Southerners/Welsh/Geordies (insert as appropriate) aren't interested in Rugby League, when in reality the crowds and ticket sales for the limited number of top level fixtures played in those areas would suggest that they can attract comparable spectators to many 'heartlands' clubs.

be fascinating to see what would have happened in a parallel universe if the RFL had struck when the iron was hot and put a properly funded Cardiff team in to Super League in 1996 on the back of the 1995 World Cup.

The RFL could never have funded an expansion club. Nor should they.Their role is to administer the game for ALL the club's. If they were to have their own funded club how could they be impartial?.

Of course they could have done more. The best thing that they did do to was to employ development officers in the regions. Unfortunately, as the initiative was beginning to bear fruit they ran out of money and the opportunity and momentum was lost.

On your point about attendances at top level fixtures. You are right that there have been good attendance figures at special big games in places like Cardiff. But these are one off games and a lot ( most) of the attendees were visitors from the heartlands making a day/weekend of it.

Of course, some locals went and some of them no doubt were converted. Unfortunately there were too few to make much of a difference.

 

 

 

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Ron Banks

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57 minutes ago, Bearman said:

On your point about attendances at top level fixtures. You are right that there have been good attendance figures at special big games in places like Cardiff. But these are one off games and a lot ( most) of the attendees were visitors from the heartlands making a day/weekend of it.

Of course, some locals went and some of them no doubt were converted. Unfortunately there were too few to make much of a difference.

I'm just not convinced that we can write off Cardiff by saying people aren't interested in RL there, when the area has never had a competitive team playing top clubs to watch on a regular basis. The bottom line is that until we properly fund efforts to give people a really attractive product to watch in these expansion areas then we'll never know.

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3 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I'm just not convinced that we can write off Cardiff by saying people aren't interested in RL there, when the area has never had a competitive team playing top clubs to watch on a regular basis. The bottom line is that until we properly fund efforts to give people a really attractive product to watch in these expansion areas then we'll never know.

I remember watching Skolars playing Ironmen at Cardiff Arms Park in 2014 and was impressed by the size of the crowd there. Easy to get there as an away fan.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 08/09/2021 at 19:21, DavidM said:

Let the SL clubs take the hit , it’s their product Sky want to pay less for due it being increasingly average . Give more money not less to clubs further down the pyramid in championship and league one , neglect them and super league will cut itself off at the knees in time . And give them more exposure on telly rather than the same old tedious repetitive stuff . Take the blinkers off , rugby league isn’t just super league 

Nope, Sky bought the rights to the championship and league1 and the RFL sold these to sky without enforcing minimum coverage.

The only games Sky showed were the big bash and the play offs.

Sky bought the rights to get rid of the competitor Premier who had taken the world cup and the NRL off them.

Now Sky has dropped the lower divisions hoping no one will pick them up as they didnt want these in the first place.

SL shouldnt pay because the RFL did a deal for a quick buck a few years ago..

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On 05/10/2021 at 18:12, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I'm just not convinced that we can write off Cardiff by saying people aren't interested in RL there, when the area has never had a competitive team playing top clubs to watch on a regular basis. The bottom line is that until we properly fund efforts to give people a really attractive product to watch in these expansion areas then we'll never know.

Yep 80's was 40 years ago.  The new audience you want weren't even born.  Plus as someone who remembers how badly the rfl got Crusaders wrong  (look at who they allowed to own it) I would hate for NWC to get written off because 'we tried it before'.

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4 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

Any idea when this (whatever 'this' is) is going to be announced?

On another note, any idea what has happened with the Coventry Uni team? Looks like they're not listed in any league this year which is a shame as they've won the Midlands League a couple of times in the past decade.

Some news will be coming soon about next season. Can't say more than that but it will be pretty exciting. 

Cov Uni who always had a pretty strong team have unfortunately fallen foul to Covid with momentum lost, and with number of players leaving uni, the team folded. In truth they'd struggled in the season prior to that and had started to lose their way. At one point not to long ago they had two teams playing so it's a massive shame. The Bears have had close ties for a number of years providing coaching an support and there are plans to try to help generate interest again for next season. They'll be back no doubt but it's mad to think that Warwick Uni who back in the day were whipping boys have a RL team and Cov Uni dont. 

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On 05/10/2021 at 13:08, Bearman said:

I think that this is terrible idea.

On the face of it, with Cardiff being the biggest city and a rugby mind set it may make sense. But, history has shown that Cardiff does not work. That rugby mind set is unfortunately set against rl.

North Wales however seems to be starting to work. Union is not as strong in the north ( compared to the south). Access to players from the heartlands is easier and now in Colwyn there is a base that can grow.

As for WW, despite a torrid start they are still there. I am not sure it is sustainable but if the backers are prepared to fund the experiment good luck to them. I really hope they can pull it off.

The one thing that the cut in funding has done is for the club's to start thinking out off the box. Evolve and change or die....its as simple as that. Interesting times ahead.

 

Cardiff is not a rugby city, catchment area of a million people and cardiff blues are lucky to crack 10k for a welsh derby! Most of cardiff is indifferent to sport or prefer football. The blues played in the cardiff city stadium for a while and abandoned it out of embarrassment.

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PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/article/8790/join-team-wales-for-2013

Predictions for the future -

Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG

Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT

Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG

Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/

http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!

http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

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17 hours ago, jannerboyuk said:

Cardiff is not a rugby city, catchment area of a million people and cardiff blues are lucky to crack 10k for a welsh derby! Most of cardiff is indifferent to sport or prefer football. The blues played in the cardiff city stadium for a while and abandoned it out of embarrassment.

Massively disagree, Cardiff is a rugby city but puts the participation of it way before spectating it (domestically)

I was born and raised there and growing up the city had the following RU teams: 

Rumney, St Albans, St Peters, Rhiwbina, St Josephs, Llanishen, Fairwater, Canton, Llandaff, Llandaff North

Then below this many more clubs who only ran senior teams like Llanrumney, CIACS, CRICC, Old Iltydians

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On 04/10/2021 at 21:56, Robthegasman said:

Or maybe what might be better where the two Welsh clubs are concerned is for both West Wales and North Wales to merge and  form a new club for Wales like NZ Warriors did in the NRL.Call it something like Wales or Welsh Warriors and base them somewhere like Cardiff or Newport.Yes I did initially say keep it in North Wales but maybe upon reflection it would be better in say Cardiff or Newport as you have a very good catchment area.

It would never work. On the face of it I can see why you'd suggest it but for us RL Gogs from the North it would be the end of supporting a Welsh team....its 160 miles to Cardiff and no direct roads North to South...it would be far easier for us to travel to North West England to watch rugby league.

As Bearman has pointed out our move to Colwyn Bay has made a huge difference to our attendance (the average is up by 250 to 590 this season) and we have some interesting links to businesses and sponsors we didn't have in Wrexham. 

We're already signing players for the 2022 League 1 season so we fully intend to compete.

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On 22/10/2021 at 14:17, welshmagpie said:

Massively disagree, Cardiff is a rugby city but puts the participation of it way before spectating it (domestically)

I was born and raised there and growing up the city had the following RU teams: 

Rumney, St Albans, St Peters, Rhiwbina, St Josephs, Llanishen, Fairwater, Canton, Llandaff, Llandaff North

Then below this many more clubs who only ran senior teams like Llanrumney, CIACS, CRICC, Old Iltydians

Sorry bud, 8000 today for a game againt a team 20 mins up the road in a city of 350,000 people doesnt scream rugby city to me. (Random fact: i played cricket for St Peters 2nds about 18 years ago - Go The Rocks!)

PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/article/8790/join-team-wales-for-2013

Predictions for the future -

Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG

Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT

Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG

Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/

http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!

http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 24/10/2021 at 00:39, jannerboyuk said:

Sorry bud, 8000 today for a game againt a team 20 mins up the road in a city of 350,000 people doesnt scream rugby city to me. (Random fact: i played cricket for St Peters 2nds about 18 years ago - Go The Rocks!)

But if someone offered rugby league the same in Wales wouldn´t we all bite their hands off? 

 

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1 hour ago, Pulga said:

Sounds like Coventry are rebranding to the Midland Hurricanes in L1 while the Bears will still exist as a community club though.

And the point of that is what? Daft name, I don't get it 

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1 hour ago, Pulga said:

Sounds like Coventry are rebranding to the Midland Hurricanes in L1 while the Bears will still exist as a community club though.

Eh? Is that real? 
 

Edit - I see, yes it is, need a bit of time to digest this https://www.coventrybears.com/blog/iygilmm22o3e8fq1c1tjk7ctbfy7ey?fbclid=IwAR0WPM1daRwMTAw30CVJX9EDPEuWwoib-HyFCu1K3tQRVzJvwO4Vo5RoQwo

 

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