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Premier Sports TV Deal


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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I don't expect anyone at the RFL to issue a statement going, "Well, this is bobbins but it's better than a poke in the eye."

But I would absolutely expect everyone else to be able to say it.

And have seen it from other sports fans/writers about their own deals, relationships with broadcasters, sponsors etc.

Let's be honest, whatever deal was struck, whatever the value of it, there would be a chorus of Rugby League folk saying it was a pile of garbage and should have been done differently.

We've moaned for years about the lack of exposure for the Championship. Now we're getting some, we're still moaning.

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Premier's model these days seems to be to have a selection of completely unrelated niche offers and hope enough fans of each of those subscribe to the total. It's not the same as Sky/BT which is, to a large extent, based on having a flagship channel that will always have something worth watching in prime time but may not be your chosen favourite sport, team or competition.

I think there is a few groupings though. Rugby League and football appears to have an element of crossover. RU and RL probably have some crossover, but not from me. Scottish RU and Football will have some crossover (although there is a lot of bitterness there too!). And then there will be an element of crossover from random sports.

Their offering is quite strong tbh compared to when we were on there in the past. 

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1 minute ago, John Drake said:

Let's be honest, whatever deal was struck, whatever the value of it, there would be a chorus of Rugby League folk saying it was a pile of garbage and should have been done differently.

We've moaned for years about the lack of exposure for the Championship. Now we're getting some, we're still moaning.

TBH John - you are just ignoring some really interesting discussion on this thread and going with the stock 'RL fans being negative again' line. Which is disappointing.

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

TBH John - you are just ignoring some really interesting discussion on this thread and going with the stock 'RL fans being negative again' line. Which is disappointing.

I'm just expressing my own personal opinion on the situation, same as everyone else.

People are free to agree or disagree with what I've written, if they want.

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2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I'm just expressing my own personal opinion on the situation, same as everyone else.

People are free to agree or disagree with what I've written, if they want.

I know, that's what my post was doing.

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9 minutes ago, John Drake said:

It isn't as if Rugby League has a long queue of suitors queuing up to throw money at it

With new kids on the block, like Amazon, would a tender for an all-exclusive package for this great game provide a better outcome?
For now, will the RFL now build its OuRLeague platform solely for League 1, presumably with no extra money to the massive £20k/club for 2022?

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I hope @John Drake is right and there’s a freshness to their presentation and it puts a positive spin on the game as a whole.

I will hope that some content (even delayed) will be shown on Freesports so the majority on here can take a look at the production standards and then consider a full subscription if impressed.

I can understand both sides of the argument, but it’s happened now, so probably the best thing RL fans can do is help shape the coverage through feedback to the production company responsible for Premier.

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10 minutes ago, John Drake said:

How much do you think it costs to televise a game to broadcast standard in the first place?

Premier will be absorbing all those costs, AND paying £200k on top.

If YouTube or Twitch were the gateway to vast resources of additional income for clubs, it begs the question why isn't it already generating that level of income, given that it has been available for years.

Because, much like the argument that advertising can fund every bit of free content available on the web, it is a fantasy solution that doesn't work in the real world, hence the deal being made with a TV company instead.

But we didnt say vast resources.  Dont build strawmen John. We have competiting aims here.  If you want exposure, paywalls arent it. If you want it to be sustainable then in needs sustainability.  

How much were clubs paying to stream individual games.  We would need to add that cost x27 to the 200k and work out how many subscribers we need. 

Now 200k is not funding tier 2 RL obvs so the question is do I think 200k is enough to shunt a product behind a paywall and loss of attendances on Monday to not even use that paywall to build the long term skill base and expertise for the real long term future  (streaming), the answer is no. 

On Youtube and Twitch,  many clubs dont have the subscriber numbers or expertise to utilise it.  That is where the RFL is supposed to have a plan  (fact that SL and RFL have seperate channels does not help ). I would argue it's the lack of a vision from RFL in adapting than because of the failures of the software. 

Your 2nd tier is never going to be the big money spinner so you can either use it for exposure on non paywall platforms or build up your long term streaming platform to get it to a sustainable level.  Premier Sports does neither. 

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40 minutes ago, John Drake said:

There are people on here arguing the Championship isn't worth paying for.

On that basis, 200K per year isn't a bad deal.

Plus, Championship clubs are now playing in a televised competition, which adds value to any sponsorship packages they choose to sell.

I think it would be good if we could talk this up, rather than proclaim the (ahem) sky is falling in, but I'll not hold me breath...

I’d rather talk about it for what it is, a pittance of a deal which, when everything is taken into account, will likely cost clubs money over the course of the season they can ill afford to lose. And all for very little more exposure than what they get now. Premier is mainly a niche channel, it picks up low value, low number sports to drive a few extra subscriptions and those people get it to purely to watch their own sports, they rarely sit and watch other the niche sports on it. I had it the last time they had the NRL and championship on, didn’t watch anything else in it and neither did anyone else in my circle if family and friends. Sorry but in my view it is a poor deal all round and yes, very ‘RFL’.  

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2 minutes ago, Wakey Til I Die said:

I’d rather talk about it for what it is, a pittance of a deal which, when everything is taken into account, will likely cost clubs money over the course of the season they can ill afford to lose. And all for very little more exposure than what they get now. Premier is mainly a niche channel, it picks up low value, low number sports to drive a few extra subscriptions and those people get it to purely to watch their own sports, they rarely sit and watch other the niche sports on it. I had it the last time they had the NRL and championship on, didn’t watch anything else in it and neither did anyone else in my circle if family and friends. Sorry but in my view it is a poor deal all round and yes, very ‘RFL’.  

What's your better - achievable - alternative?

Other than just moaning?

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2 hours ago, John Drake said:

No disrespect to you personally, but this is kind of Rugby League's problem in a nutshell, isn't it?

We all want and expect TV companies to cough up big money to televise our sport, but when push comes to shove, most of us aren't prepared to fork out the money required for them to make a return on such an investment.

Consequently, we get smaller deals and less coverage than other sports.

Effectively, we're the ones telling the TV companies that the Championship isn't worth their time or money here.

Well no not really. It is second tier sport, I wouldn't pay extra for the likes of Championship football either, and quite frankly I wouldn't have the time to watch most of it. I struggle to watch much of SL and the NRL as it is.

I already pay around £80 to Sky, £13 a month to just watch a handful of Championship games a year is pretty shocking value for me and pretty unjustifiable too. Sorry if that makes me a poor RL fan.

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Just now, Damien said:

Well no not really. It is second tier sport, I wouldn't pay extra for the likes of Championship football either, and quite frankly I wouldn't have the time to watch most of it. I struggle to watch much of SL and the NRL as it is.

I already pay around £80 to Sky, £13 a month to just watch a handful of Championship games a year is pretty shocking value for me and pretty unjustifiable too. Sorry if that makes me a poor RL fan.

It's fine if it doesn't appeal to you, or you don't think it is worth it.

But your situation may be different to someone else's.

Mine, for example.

I'm a fan of a Championship club, so paying £13 per month to watch an average of four Championship games broadcast in that period, some of which will feature my own team, represents pretty good value, whereas paying over £30 per month for Sky Sports doesn't represent the same value to me (even though I still pay it).

As a bonus, for me personally, it means I can watch games live on a Monday night, which I never can on a Sunday, so on the occasions my club plays on a Monday, they'll be getting gate money off me as well.

Neither of us are 'poor' RL fans, we just have different views on what we choose to spend our money on and what value it represents.

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1 hour ago, Wakey Til I Die said:

Johnny Davidson has dropped the numbers on his patreon site. The clubs aren’t getting rich of this thats for sure. 200K per year, 6 grand each is the nub. 

Wow, if the contract is worth £200K per year and there are 14 clubs, equal shares would be a little over 14K each, 6K each would total £84K, so is £116K the RFL's cut for brokering the deal, what am I missing.

But, nevertheless as an example as a Leigh fan I would normally be making the trip to say Bradford or Fev for a Sunday afternoon fixture and there would be (conservatively) another 6 - 700 fellow fans making the trip, and that would be reciprocated by fans of the other teams for the Leigh fixture so what does that mean, 600 at £18 average ticket = £10,800 or thereabouts loss of revenue, x 2 if home and away fixtures between these clubs are screened is upwards of over £20K loss, AND THIS IS A GOOD DEAL? to be replaced by £6K!

 

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2 hours ago, John Drake said:

Maybe they read these forums... full of people telling them their channel isn't worth paying for to watch Rugby League.

Just a thought.

For what they are offering, perhaps it isn't for some.

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1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Let's be honest, whatever deal was struck, whatever the value of it, there would be a chorus of Rugby League folk saying it was a pile of garbage and should have been done differently.

We've moaned for years about the lack of exposure for the Championship. Now we're getting some, we're still moaning.

Don't tar as all with sane brush!!

I repeat my original message... 'Great, I'll be subscribing to it' 😉 

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27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Wow, if the contract is worth £200K per year and there are 14 clubs, equal shares would be a little over 14K each, 6K each would total £84K, so is £116K the RFL's cut for brokering the deal, what am I missing.

But, nevertheless as an example as a Leigh fan I would normally be making the trip to say Bradford or Fev for a Sunday afternoon fixture and there would be (conservatively) another 6 - 700 fellow fans making the trip, and that would be reciprocated by fans of the other teams for the Leigh fixture so what does that mean, 600 at £18 average ticket = £10,800 or thereabouts loss of revenue, x 2 if home and away fixtures between these clubs are screened is upwards of over £20K loss, AND THIS IS A GOOD DEAL? to be replaced by £6K!

 

I was going to ask what the 6k referred to, I thought it was maybe £6k per game? 

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26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Wow, if the contract is worth £200K per year and there are 14 clubs, equal shares would be a little over 14K each, 6K each would total £84K, so is £116K the RFL's cut for brokering the deal, what am I missing.

But, nevertheless as an example as a Leigh fan I would normally be making the trip to say Bradford or Fev for a Sunday afternoon fixture and there would be (conservatively) another 6 - 700 fellow fans making the trip, and that would be reciprocated by fans of the other teams for the Leigh fixture so what does that mean, 600 at £18 average ticket = £10,800 or thereabouts loss of revenue, x 2 if home and away fixtures between these clubs are screened is upwards of over £20K loss, AND THIS IS A GOOD DEAL? to be replaced by £6K!

 

The exposure is worth a bit to everyone not least the clubs 

More exposure means more interest.

From existing fans maybe more interest drives more kit sold or media clicks

New fans (maybe union fan subscribers for Pro 14) may end up following a side wyc

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14 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Don't tar as all with sane brush!!

I repeat my original message... 'Great, I'll be subscribing to it' 😉 

Thats a great freudian slip ha ha...

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1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Let's be honest, whatever deal was struck, whatever the value of it, there would be a chorus of Rugby League folk saying it was a pile of garbage and should have been done differently.

We've moaned for years about the lack of exposure for the Championship. Now we're getting some, we're still moaning.

Personally speaking I would have preferred for the RFL to continue building Our League with SKY at the end of season.

However it is what it is so let's stop moaning and get on with it.

 

Paul

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20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I was going to ask what the 6k referred to, I thought it was maybe £6k per game? 

The line is….

‘Under the new deal Championship clubs it is understood will receive a few thousand pounds each, believed to be around £6000, with that funding tied to the RFL's return on investment distribution model.’

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1 hour ago, John Drake said:

What's your better - achievable - alternative?

Other than just moaning?

Personally i’d have extended the ourleague offering, the system is there and ripe for expansion. Using Youtube channels is also an option. The ‘added’ exposure will be the same, the exact same people will be watching yet the clubs would actually end up better off. But you could pretty much go in any other direction than giving away rights to sit behind an overpriced paywall on a channel watched by 3 men and a dog and it would have been a better deal. But if you are happy with it good for you. Most it seems aren’t, including the clubs themselves by the sound of it. 

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12 minutes ago, Wakey Til I Die said:

The line is….

‘Under the new deal Championship clubs it is understood will receive a few thousand pounds each, believed to be around £6000, with that funding tied to the RFL's return on investment distribution model.’

Whoosh, over my head that one, can that be put in understandable words, anyone please.

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6 minutes ago, Wakey Til I Die said:

Personally i’d have extended the ourleague offering, the system is there and ripe for expansion. 

Yep, I'd rather pay £99 or so for an annual 'Our League premium membership' that includes Championship & Challenge Cup games and other video content (and perhaps other incentives like discounts to showpiece games, e.g. Challenge Cup, Championship GF, internationals etc.). A package most RL fans could find something to buy into - more than one game a week on Premier.

Ideally it would be more user-friendly with a downloadable smart TV app like Watch NRL (which I have on my Apple TV box and makes viewing a cinch).

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