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13 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Well lets wait & see how many they get hammered by this weekend, even with one of the most inexperienced England teams ever with 8 international debutants.

Edited by Hello
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4 minutes ago, Hello said:

 

Some people on here are totally desperate to claim that if England beat France in this forthcoming fixture, as they probably will considering that they've been hammering France for ages, then this is some way "proves" that Catalans Dragons et al have failed to improve the French team in the last 20 years, whilst knowingly ignoring the improvements that are there for all of us to see in French RL in recent times.  Sad people who want to hold the game back IMHO 😀

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11 hours ago, Hello said:

Some people on here are totally desperate to claim that if England beat France in this forthcoming fixture, as they probably will considering that they've been hammering France for ages, then this is some way "proves" that Catalans Dragons et al have failed to improve the French team in the last 20 years, whilst knowingly ignoring the improvements that are there for all of us to see in French RL in recent times.  Sad people who want to hold the game back IMHO 😀

Prey tell what are these 'improvements' that are there for all to see ??

They're not at international level, and they're not at club level at Catalans given the pitiful number of French players that are considered as 1st choice at the club.

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27 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Prey tell what are these 'improvements' that are there for all to see ??

They're not at international level, and they're not at club level at Catalans given the pitiful number of French players that are considered as 1st choice at the club.

That doesn't mean there hasn't been improvements. 

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

That doesn't mean there hasn't been improvements. 

So what are they ? Hello stated they were "there for all to see"

I can't see any at international level or at club level with Catalans given their success has been based largely on having a team full of Brits & Antipodeans not French players

Edited by Saint Toppy
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3 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

So what are they ? Hello stated they were "there for all to see"

I can't see any at international level or at club level with Catalans given their success has been based largely on having a team full of Brits & Antipodeans nit French players

You do accept that 100+ French players have played in SL over the last 16 years? 15% of those have played at the other English SL clubs.

In the previous 16 years there were only around 20 (most of those the ill fated PSG). So that is 5x as many French players playing full-time RL in the SL during the comparable period.

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4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You do accept that 100+ French players have played in SL over the last 16 years? 15% of those have played at the other English SL clubs.

In the previous 16 years there were only around 20 (most of those the ill fated PSG). So that is 5x as many French players playing full-time RL in the SL during the comparable period.

Do you accept having hundreds is pointless if they spend most of their careers playing reserve grade rugby or Championship rugby and never developing into regular 1st team SL players and then onto International standard players.

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10 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Do you accept having hundreds is pointless if they spend most of their careers playing reserve grade rugby or Championship rugby and never developing into regular 1st team SL players and then onto International standard players.

Do you accept that if Toulouse and Catalans are both in the top 8 of the table next year then (even by your disparaging numbers) that around 12% of players running out for the top 8 clubs in the land will be French? Guess it doesn't count because they are French eh?

If Toulouse move into the top 6 in the next couple of years that number would go to around 14-15% 

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2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Prey tell what are these 'improvements' that are there for all to see ??

They're not at international level, and they're not at club level at Catalans given the pitiful number of French players that are considered as 1st choice at the club.

No improvements at club level? Catalans finished top of the Super League and lost in the Grand Final after a couple of dubious calls went against them, they have also previously won the Challenge Cup. 15 of their 27 man 1st team squad are French. Some people will knock them regardless of what they achieve. 

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31 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Do you accept that if Toulouse and Catalans are both in the top 8 of the table next year then (even by your disparaging numbers) that around 12% of players running out for the top 8 clubs in the land will be French? Guess it doesn't count because they are French eh?

If Toulouse move into the top 6 in the next couple of years that number would go to around 14-15% 

Lets just wait & see how many French players actually become 1st choice starters for TO next year. This year Catalans had 3, Plus Fages at Saints so that makes a whopping 4, 1st choice starters out of 156 players (2.5%) across SL.

Even if TO have 9-10 French starters (which I seriously doubt) that would only be around 8%, when you then consider French clubs will make up 16% of the league.

You can try and dress this up as much as you like, but the fact Catalans don't even see a team of largely French players as being a viable & competitive option shows just how poor the state of the French game is.

If you genuinely want to see the game in France develop and for large numbers of French players to be starting week in week out then the only viable option is licencing. While we have any sort of P&R system the French clubs aren't going to invest properly or take the risk in developing French players into regular 1st team starters (and please god don't start banging on about protection from relegation for French clubs, it just sounds like a French fishermans union rally. Its either P&R with everyone under the same rules with the same situation we have now, or its licencing where everyone can then invest in their youth players without fear of relegation).

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5 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

No improvements at club level? Catalans finished top of the Super League and lost in the Grand Final after a couple of dubious calls went against them, they have also previously won the Challenge Cup. 15 of their 27 man 1st team squad are French. Some people will knock them regardless of what they achieve. 

Do you read any of the earlier posts - 3 First choice starters were French, and only 5 made the final team. That's 10 in the squad who are seen as nothing but squad fillers, ditched as soon as a Brit or Antipodean are available.

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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

So what are they ? Hello stated they were "there for all to see"

I can't see any at international level or at club level with Catalans given their success has been based largely on having a team full of Brits & Antipodeans not French players

And Saints recent success had nothing to do with Coote,Fages,Peyroux,Naiqama and the other Antipodeam recruits they’ve brought over then & Hopoate,Sironen,Luscick,Hurrell will not be seen as key in that continuing success ?

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21 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Do you read any of the earlier posts - 3 First choice starters were French, and only 5 made the final team. That's 10 in the squad who are seen as nothing but squad fillers, ditched as soon as a Brit or Antipodean are available.

How many were injured, how many were returning from injuries, how many had illness issues (covid etc?) how many were out of form?

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40 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Do you read any of the earlier posts - 3 First choice starters were French, and only 5 made the final team. That's 10 in the squad who are seen as nothing but squad fillers, ditched as soon as a Brit or Antipodean are available.

The fact is out of 27 first team players 15 are French and 12 are not French. Catalans give French players opportunities to step up and play in Super League, without them and Toulouse those opportunities would not be there.

Does it mean France will beat England, Australia, New Zealand or Tonga? Probably not, but they are certainly a better International side because of the two clubs, and more importantly Super League is a better competition because of the 2 French clubs.

I wonder how many overseas players the Union teams have in Perpignan or Toulouse, I’d guess a similar number and remember no Super League club is made up solely of English players. Super League has French clubs, get over it.

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49 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Do you read any of the earlier posts - 3 First choice starters were French, and only 5 made the final team. That's 10 in the squad who are seen as nothing but squad fillers, ditched as soon as a Brit or Antipodean are available.

Out of the Saints squad numbers they have 11 out of the first 27 who are not/do not represent England. That's a fair old chunk. We can all twist figures if we want to suit our agenda if we want.

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As usual some posters are all to quick to criticise Catalans & now Toulouse for the French national teams struggles yet give our own clubs a free pass on England’s/GB continued failures against Australia & to a lesser extent the other Southern Hemisphere nations.

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54 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

And Saints recent success had nothing to do with Coote,Fages,Peyroux,Naiqama and the other Antipodeam recruits they’ve brought over then & Hopoate,Sironen,Luscick,Hurrell will not be seen as key in that continuing success ?

Except those players are just brought in to compliment the home grown players like Makinson, Percival, Grace, Lomax Welsby, Dodd, Lees, Roby & Knowles not as 1st choice to replace them.

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