How do we furnish a promoted team?

[Harry Stottle]

On the 1895 final thread a discussion was going to break out re Leigh or Fev being capable of joining SL with their present squads should either (or any other team) win promotion this year.

Fev have got a team that is well capable in the Championship but even Fev fans are doubting that with the present pack they have they would have to jettison some ageing player's and refresh the squad, Leigh look like with the present squad they have plus a few additions they would be capable of making a go to avoid relegation in SL but considering they have 12 antipodeans which is to many allowed in SL where would they get players  from?

It is bad enough trying to satisfy the requirements for one team but it would be doubly difficult if we went to a 14 team SL, we simply do not produce enough home grown or pay enough (salery cap) to keep other players from going down under.

Before I go any further It is my opinion we should catagorically keep P&R, in whatever format nessacary.

So what is the solution? We keep hearing from some who say the promoted team should be excempt from relegation, that causes to many problems for me in that a club who may not be the worst performing over the season gets relegated.

So considering that it is not until the penultimate week of the season the promoted club can go on a shopping spree only to find the shelves empty how about allowing the promoted team to have multiple overseas player's over and above the rest of SL,  if my memory serves me correct wasn't Catalan allowed this dispensation in the early days?

OK everyone will say that my team has as many as it wants, but that is the rule in the Championship, if Leigh or Fev (or any other championship team) did not have the privilege of sourcing overseas talent they would not be as good as they are, as the rule stands it only benefits SL teams, in that a club like Leigh can bring overseas player's into our system but if they get promoted the present SL clubs can pick them off, whilst leaving the promoted Championship club scratching around for player's, so let the promoted team have more overseas player's simply because there is nowhere else to turn in recruiting player's capable of playing in SL, those homegrown - with a very few exceptions - who are good enough for SL are already in SL, the promoted team is on a hiding to nothing.

 

[Mumby Magic]

The solution is solely down to the teams. They should plan for either going up or staying down in the championship. I'm sick of hearing newly promoted teams etc saying there should be a years grace. Errmm no there shouldn't. Our game is simple its people involved that make it hard.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Mumby Magic

[Tommygilf]

P&R doesn't work with a low salary cap.

[Damien]

I'd get rid of the play off for the Championship so that the team that has been strongest over the course of the season gets promoted. I think that's a truer test of a team being up to SL level. This also gives a team a few more weeks to prepare.

We also need to get rid of this giving a promoted team less nonsense. I'd actually like to give them more funding, say an extra 10%, to overcome the inherenent disadvantages they face.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

P&R doesn't work with a low salary cap.

Yes a salary cap really advantages existing teams and means that any promoted club has to beat existing SL clubs on their terms with one hand tied behind their backs.

[Robin Evans]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'd get rid of the play off for the Championship so that the team that has been strongest over the course of the season gets promoted. I think that's a truer test of a team being up to SL level. This also gives a team a few more weeks to prepare.

We also need to get rid of this giving a promoted team less nonsense. I'd actually like to give them more funding, say an extra 10%, to overcome the inherenent disadvantages they face.

This.

[Jughead]

If you’re going to have rules on quota spaces in Super League, is there any reason why we don’t have them at Championship level?

Leigh’s current squad looks pretty decent at the minute but it’s stacked with Antipodean players and unless a number of them find a European grandmother, Leigh will have to let a number of them leave if they are to get promoted and it looks likely that the squad who’d take the field on round one of Super League 28 would be weaker than the side that got them promoted, as they’d have to do the above but by the time they’d be promoted, those coming off contract at the end of this year will, largely, have been signed up elsewhere and this seems counter intuitive, but that’s the promotion and relegation system for you anyway. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Jughead

[redjonn]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

P&R doesn't work with a low salary cap.

I would add.... with a low salary cap and unequal club funding. 

I think P&R is important, especially taking a long term view if ever the game grows and hence its importance to attract investment to lower league.   So solution needs to be more fair to the newly promoted club - like increased funding from central pot for newly promoted team and less restrictions to being able to sign players.  

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, Jughead said:

If you’re going to have rules on quota spaces in Super League, is there any reason why we don’t have them at Championship level?

Leigh’s current squad looks pretty decent at the minute but it’s stacked with Antipodean players and unless a number of them find a European grandmother, Leigh will have to let a number of them leave if they are to get promoted and it looks likely that the squad who’d take the field on round one of Super League 28 would be weaker than the side that got them promoted, as they’d have to do the above but by the time they’d be promoted, those coming off contract at the end of this year will, largely, have been signed up elsewhere and this seems counter intuitive, but that’s the promotion and relegation system for you anyway. 

So do you agree with the promoted club being allowed more overseas stars than the rest of SL, and if I was correct that Catalan were allowed to do that, why could it not be introduced.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[The Blues Ox]

20 minutes ago, Jughead said:

If you’re going to have rules on quota spaces in Super League, is there any reason why we don’t have them at Championship level?

 

We used to have if I remember rightly, I think at one point we were limited to just one overseas player. At some point it seems that rule has been removed and its not really been talked about so I do find it quite funny that Leigh have really taken advantage of the rule, or lack of them, and I expect the RFL to make changes to those rules or maybe SL teams will push for the changes to try and limit Championship teams.

[Jughead]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So do you agree with the promoted club being allowed more overseas stars than the rest of SL, and if I was correct that Catalan were allowed to do that, why could it not be introduced.

Probably not, in all honesty. If you start giving promoted teams that and a time period where they could have as many from overseas as they liked, you could end up with three or four sides in a twelve team competition with heavily Antipodean born squads and I don’t think that’s really good for the international game or even the clubs themselves, who‘d likely be investing less into pathways. 

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Probably not, in all honesty. If you start giving promoted teams that and a time period where they could have as many from overseas as they liked, you could end up with three or four sides in a twelve team competition with heavily Antipodean born squads and I don’t think that’s really good for the international game or even the clubs themselves, who‘d likely be investing less into pathways. 

Disagree, it would be done on a time frame of one or two years, but SL clubs would eventually start to pick them off, just as they will do now with Leigh's squad, so the advantage is to the present SL clubs and the promoted clubs just have to watch it happen, is that a good system?

[Harry Stottle]

15 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

We used to have if I remember rightly, I think at one point we were limited to just one overseas player. At some point it seems that rule has been removed and its not really been talked about so I do find it quite funny that Leigh have really taken advantage of the rule, or lack of them, and I expect the RFL to make changes to those rules or maybe SL teams will push for the changes to try and limit Championship teams.

Why would they do that, the Championship clubs invest in them and bring them over, just watch the SL clubs hovering over the LSV like vultures after the carrion towards the end of the season, easy pickings.

[Jughead]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Disagree, it would be done on a time frame of one or two years, but SL clubs would eventually start to pick them off, just as they will do now with Leigh's squad, so the advantage is to the present SL clubs and the promoted clubs just have to watch it happen, is that a good system?

I think everyone would be better off if the Championship season finished much earlier, say June/July, allowing them to fairly compete with the existing Super League clubs rather than looking at a short term option that doesn’t really work. 

Have the second half of the season as a Northern Rail Cup type competition with group stages so clubs get a minimum amount of games that are needed. 

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I think everyone would be better off if the Championship season finished much earlier, say June/July, allowing them to fairly compete with the existing Super League clubs rather than looking at a short term option that doesn’t really work. 

Have the second half of the season as a Northern Rail Cup type competition with group stages so clubs get a minimum amount of games that are needed. 

It could work having the season finish early, would you fancy player's leaving and commiting from the better teams though, and having the Northern Rail type comp after the "Main Event" seems bit like after the Lord Mayor's Show comes the dust cart.

[Jughead]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

It could work having the season finish early, would you fancy player's leaving and commiting from the better teams though, and having the Northern Rail type comp after the "Main Event" seems bit like after the Lord Mayor's Show comes the dust cart.

If we are to keep promotion and relegation, I think it’s probably the best route to take. 

Not really, it’s another competition and a fresh start for all. Those that struggled in the league season get a second chance at success and those that win the league have a go at a double, as Leigh do this year. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

If we are to keep promotion and relegation, I think it’s probably the best route to take. 

Not really, it’s another competition and a fresh start for all. Those that struggled in the league season get a second chance at success and those that win the league have a go at a double, as Leigh do this year. 

I still my simplified version, of letting a promoted team keep their playing roster in tact irrespective that they are from overseas would work, make it compulsory that only the requisite number of overseas player's allowed in SL can sign anything longer that a 2 year contract when the club enters SL.

[Damien]

Championship clubs should have at the very least the same quota rules as Super League clubs, its laughable that isn't the case. If we want the game to develop young English players then lower league clubs stacking their roster with overseas players blocks this.

If anything I think there is a strong argument to say that quota rules should be stronger in the Championship than Super League. Allowing more overseas players, who by and large aren't good enough for Super League, doesn't seem a wise use of funding to me. A tighter quota in the Championship would also mean clubs have a stronger and more stable setup with which to then add quality overseas signings if they do then get into Super League.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Damien

[paulwalker71]

I'm warming to Harry's idea of allowing the promoted club to have some sort of quota on the overseas quota

It's not idea, but then what we have now isn't either. It's clearly unfair that all the avaiable talent is signed up before we know who is promoted. All that happens - as we have seen - is the promoted club signing players from the relegated club.

It would need to be strictly controlled. Reduced over, say, a two-year period until the same quota rules apply. Perhaps also make it so that the promoted club can only spend a certain amount of central funding on overseas players, any extra has to come from the owners pocket or sponsors.

I'd also make it so that the promoted club must start an Academy, but that's a slightly different argument.

One thing for sure is that there needs to be something to break the log jam of ambitious Championship clubs getting crocked before they even start.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

P&R doesn't work with a low salary cap.

How would it be any different with a bigger cap Tommy?

A promoted club cannot speculate on a SL quality team until it can finance it, and it only becomes obtainable when SL funding has been secured, and at that time the shelves are empty.

Leigh have brought together a good squad, but they could not commit to longer than 12 months contracts.

Please comment on my suggestion of more overseas player's being allowed for the promoted Championship team other than the regular SL allowance.

[The Blues Ox]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Championship clubs should have at the very least the same quota rules as Super League clubs, its laughable that isn't the case. If we want the game to develop young English players then lower league clubs stacking their roster with overseas players blocks this.

Im not having a personal dig here but I read that and did laugh out loud. There are only one set of clubs that are blocking the overall progress of the game and how we develop young players, and that is the Super League clubs themselves.

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Im not having a personal dig here but I read that and did laugh out loud. There are only one set of clubs that are blocking the overall progress of the game and how we develop young players, and that is the Super League clubs themselves.

So how does clubs stacking squads with overseas players improve that or are you moving on to a different debate?

[Padge]

P&R is a failed concept. 

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

P&R doesn't work with a low salary cap.

And travel expenses for anyone who has the audacity to exist more than five miles from junction 12. 

[StandOffHalf]

Equal funding and being allowed to keep the team they were promoted with - if the players wish to stay.