Regan Grace

[Jughead]

9 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The trouble is that to get the match on TV and get sponsors and commercial income into the game, it needs to be able to draw an audience to watch it, for that Wales has to be competitive and for that there needs be enough money in the game to attract a lot more players as good as Regan Grace or better into the game and then make it worthwhile for them to stay instead of going to RU as Grace is doing.

Thus the poor plan of begging Australia is really all there is the way things are now.

I think that’s why the Great Britain concept probably worked years ago when Rugby League had the financial clout to attract Welsh RU players, they then played Australia and New Zealand in big games on the international stage. 

I get why they wanted to separate and to attempt to grow each nation individually but we’ve now ended up with three financially poor countries playing games in front of 200 people at athletics grounds in Santry and playing in front of a few hundred at fifth tier Scottish Football grounds with very few homegrown players (probably, Wales aside). The split of nations hasn’t really worked, if we’re honest. 

[Big Picture]

51 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I think that’s why the Great Britain concept probably worked years ago when Rugby League had the financial clout to attract Welsh RU players, they then played Australia and New Zealand in big games on the international stage. 

I get why they wanted to separate and to attempt to grow each nation individually but we’ve now ended up with three financially poor countries playing games in front of 200 people at athletics grounds in Santry and playing in front of a few hundred at fifth tier Scottish Football grounds with very few homegrown players (probably, Wales aside). The split of nations hasn’t really worked, if we’re honest. 

That financial clout wasn't really that substantial due to the game not really having a lot of money, administrators recognized that it wouldn't attract many top English players who weren't working class.  And it disappeared altogether after RU went pro due to that same reason.

The lack of money in RL is why the split of nations hasn't really worked, as this and Wakefield's new signing show it's not enough to attract real talent.

38 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

 But unless you start you never build that market, so the RFL who disbanded the lions for nations then did sweet fa to build the other nations are responsible for this mess. It doesn´t need to be competitive immediately to get people to watch it, see England vs Scotland in Four nations which outdrew England vs Australia. 

What exactly should or could the RFL have done when there isn't enough money in the game to attract players from RU who in the past were the basis of competitive Welsh teams in the past and are realistically the only way Wales could be competitive again?

That Scotland crowd in the Four Nations isn't really indicative, as it was part of a double header we don't really know which of the two matches the crowd was there to see, plus England vs Scotland in a Four Nations tournament does have RU overtones so some in the crowd might have thought they'd be seeing RU.  And the double header certainly did not exceed the 35,569 who saw England vs Australia, not even close.

Without marketable well known players in the Wales or Scotland line-up, I can't see a standalone Wales vs England or Scotland vs England match drawing a big enough crowd to build that market you speak of.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Big Picture

[Oxford]

The discussion this kind of event bring up can't go anywhere until the game is strengthened from top to bottom.

And if you want to know why it happened don't just look at the money on offer read the Torygraph, Keith does!

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

48 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

That Scotland crowd in the Four Nations isn't really indicative, as it was part of a double header we don't really know which of the two matches the crowd was there to see

Whilst it isn't perfect, it is a good indicator. There were >8k tickets sold to people with Midlands post codes if I remember correctly. I knew lots of armchair viewers who went to watch it because it was a high profile international sporting event featuring England and Scotland, and they were only really interested in that game. Obviously some may have been there primarily for Aus v NZ, but this would have been a small percentage IMO.

53 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

plus England vs Scotland in a Four Nations tournament does have RU overtones so some in the crowd might have thought they'd be seeing RU

Nobody would've thought this. There is zero chance of those spectators thinking they'd turned up to something that would normally be taking place at Twickenham or Murrayfield.

54 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

And the double header certainly did not exceed the 35,569 who saw England vs Australia, not even close.

The TV viewing figures were higher for Eng v Scot compared to Eng v Aus apparently. I believe this is what ShropshireBull is referring to when he/she says it outdrew the Australia game.

 

[fighting irish]

Interesting that Regan Grace thanked everyone at the club including Chairman and Chief Exec., the academy coach and all the supporters etc.

No mention of Justin Holbrook or Kristian Woolf??

 

[Oxford]

It's waking up in kick & clap world on here at times.

And I wonder if that's the real problem or a symptom?

[OriginalMrC]

It's a shame he's moved on but he's not the first and won't be the last. The biggest missed opportunity with Grace was not picking him for GB. That whole tour was a complete shambles and had he been picked and done well who knows what might have been 

[The storm]

41 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

It's a shame he's moved on but he's not the first and won't be the last. The biggest missed opportunity with Grace was not picking him for GB. That whole tour was a complete shambles and had he been picked and done well who knows what might have been 

Im sorry to see players go to union. 

Id rather see them in the NRL which id the biggest rugby comp of any code on earth. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

On 04/07/2022 at 00:06, sentoffagain2 said:

  How much are the Warrington players on and they are c-ap.I would pay them less contract money and win bonus extra.

If that was the norm at every club, we would have such a different game nowadays, ho for half time when the chairman would enter the dressing room and offer more for a win, but we would have to be a 'tad' more lenient with the rules to allow the on-field 'minders' to look after their star player's and try scorers.

[sentoffagain2]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If that was the norm at every club, we would have such a different game nowadays, ho for half time when the chairman would enter the dressing room and offer more for a win, but we would have to be a 'tad' more lenient with the rules to allow the on-field 'minders' to look after their star player's and try scorers.

   Ah the good old days.Players not so fit as today's but played for a few quid spending or extra housekeeping money.

[Harry Stottle]

On 04/07/2022 at 13:45, fighting irish said:

What you mean is the coach didn't think he was good enough in 2019. 

Remember, said coach hadn't even heard of Tommy Makinson, (International Player of the Year and Golden Boot winner) at that time either. 

Said coach probably had heard of Makinson but allowances should be given, at his age he should be forgiven for forgetting who he is.

[Harry Stottle]

On 04/07/2022 at 14:07, Damien said:

 No there are better wingers than Grace, he's not even the best winger at Saints. If he was that great NRL clubs would have shown interest by now, they haven't. Stick him in a team like Salford and he would be thought of no higher than players like Joe Burgess.

Every chance that Joe could show up in the England squad with his present form and more importantly being one of Mr Wane's old boys.

[Tubby]

On 05/07/2022 at 09:33, Damien said:

This has been shown with other players too. It really illustrates how we need to raise the profile and appeal of the international game. I could never see the same situation happening in reverse and a RU player would certainly delay such a switch for a year until after their World Cup.

Unless they were doubling their wage...

[Damien]

32 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Unless they were doubling their wage...

I still don't think they would, they would still play in their World Cup first. Waiting a couple of months or a year is hardly financial ruin.

Players like Tuivasa-Sheck have also done what Grace has done this without doubling their wage. Indeed he probably took a pay cut. Thinking this is about money may make people feel better but it just excuses the failings in the international game. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Damien

[Tubby]

38 minutes ago, Damien said:

I still don't think they would, they would still play in their World Cup first. Waiting a couple of months or a year is hardly financial ruin.

Players like Tuivasa-Sheck have also done what Grace has done this without doubling their wage. Indeed he probably took a pay cut. Thinking this is about money may make people feel better but it just excuses the failings in the international game. 

You don't believe that a professional sportsman is moving (back) to union from league has anything to do with money?

I've no doubt that he has a desire to play union again and improve his chances of playing meaningful international games, but to think money isn't a motivation is frankly delusional.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Tubby said:

You don't believe that a professional sportsman is moving (back) to union from league has anything to do with money?

I've no doubt that he has a desire to play union again and improve his chances of playing meaningful international games, but to think money isn't a motivation is frankly delusional.

You are now moving the goalposts and having a different debate. Of course money matters but that is not the point of mine you replied to. That clearly said "I could never see the same situation happening in reverse and a RU player would certainly delay such a switch for a year until after their World Cup."

You are now talking about something else entirely.

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Tubby said:

You don't believe that a professional sportsman is moving (back) to union from league has anything to do with money?

I've no doubt that he has a desire to play union again and improve his chances of playing meaningful international games, but to think money isn't a motivation is frankly delusional.

It is just the reverse direction of why so many came up from the valley's before Union payed them so well, professional sports player's have a short window in their working life to maximise their earning potential, you can't blame any player for cashing in on it if arises and presents them with the opportunity.

[Tubby]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

You are now moving the goalposts and having a different debate. Of course money matters but that is not the point of mine you replied to. That clearly said "I could never see the same situation happening in reverse and a RU player would certainly delay such a switch for a year until after their World Cup."

You are now talking about something else entirely.

Ok, I see your point; my thoughts are that I could absolutely see it happening in the opposite direction, if a player was to earn significantly more.  Playing internationally significant sport is a draw, but cold hard cash is a much bigger one.  Much as the Welsh union players came to league over the decades, that wasn't for international recognition, it was for bags of pound notes.  And who amongst us could fault them for it?

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I still don't think they would, they would still play in their World Cup first. Waiting a couple of months or a year is hardly financial ruin.

Players like Tuivasa-Sheck have also done what Grace has done this without doubling their wage. Indeed he probably took a pay cut. Thinking this is about money may make people feel better but it just excuses the failings in the international game. 

TBF it may not be an immediate pay rise but if he makes the All Blacks he will be very very well paid and I would not be at all surprised if it was more than doubling it.

[fighting irish]

8 minutes ago, RP London said:

TBF it may not be an immediate pay rise but if he makes the All Blacks he will be very very well paid and I would not be at all surprised if it was more than doubling it.

He may well be more interested in winning a RaRa world cup.

I think it's about self-esteem.

He can then claim, that he succeeded in both codes and answer for himself, and rebut any arguments about which code is superior.

I'm sick to death of RaRa and its press, claiming superiority but the only way to really win the argument, is to overtake them in world-wide popularity and ultimately be regarded as the superior code by all and sundry.

Then of course the game will generate enough cash to keep our players where they belong. 

 

[The Future is League]

Regan Grace is leaving our game at the end of the season.

We need to forget him now and move on.

 

[Oxford]

4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Regan Grace is leaving our game at the end of the season.

We need to forget him now and move on.

 

Regan who?

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, RP London said:

TBF it may not be an immediate pay rise but if he makes the All Blacks he will be very very well paid and I would not be at all surprised if it was more than doubling it.

Not a chance. Top All Blacks dont get anymore than top NRL players. Sheck was on $1 million a year at the warriors, top All Blacks in NZ get no more than that.

[RP London]

Just now, Damien said:

Not a chance. Top All Blacks dont get anymore than top NRL players. Sheck was on $1 million a year at the warriors, top All Blacks in NZ get no more than that.

image rights was where i was thinking he will see the largest growth 

[Jughead]

6 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Regan Grace is leaving our game at the end of the season.

We need to forget him now and move on.

 

I think this should be the default tactic of dealing with Regan Grace for the rest of the season.