Relegation/Relègation 2022

[steve oates]

12 minutes ago, RP London said:

Who is Sheffield Eagles the pet project of? 

While I dont know Newcastle indepth there is a large amount of junior and amatuer RL that has grown in the past 10 years

Gary Hetherington who announced it wasn't working and left

Point us all to the "Large amount" of grassroots RL in Newcastle, and compare that with the Union equivalent please.

Remember that this latest TV deal has been massive and has nicely been stretched out over recent years and has delivered a lot of money to the Championship and League one.  For me that money has kept many small clubs alive.

How do you think these clubs will cope if that money, as it will soon,  comes to a permanent end??

[gingerjon]

9 minutes ago, steve oates said:

compare that with the Union equivalent please

Why?

[steve oates]

8 minutes ago, RP London said:

we wouldn't need luck if people like you would stop being so unbelievably negative

It's not about me, it's about social change. The big drop in player numbers in recent years is probably indirectly fuelling an increase in NRL imports. Is that big drop my fault?

Was the heatwave my fault as well You are a self proclaimed professional Business analyst aren't you?  Why don't you please give us your analysis if I have it wrong?

 

[RP London]

12 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Gary Hetherington who announced it wasn't working and left

Point us all to the "Large amount" of grassroots RL in Newcastle, and compare that with the Union equivalent please.

Remember that this latest TV deal has been massive and has nicely been stretched out over recent years and has delivered a lot of money to the Championship and League one.  For me that money has kept many small clubs alive.

How do you think these clubs will cope if that money, as it will soon,  comes to a permanent end??

So eagles is still the pet project of the man who left nearly 30 years ago and since that time the club has been sold off by the RFL and had to be reformed and started again and is still here even though the owner of the pet has long since gone... well that pretty much sums up the quality of your postings so time to ignore again!!

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, steve oates said:

It's not about me, it's about social change. The big drop in player numbers in recent years is probably indirectly fuelling an increase in NRL imports. Is that big drop my fault?

Was the heatwave my fault as well You are a self proclaimed professional Business analyst aren't you?  Why don't you please give us your analysis if I have it wrong?

 

and yet Eagles are adding to the player numbers because if they weren't here those kids wouldnt be playing RL... maybe you want to look at the precious heartland clubs a little more closely.. 

you seem to want to think I am a business analyst... i dont know why you keep saying I am "self proclaimed" either expert or business analyst.. I have never said such a thing you are the one saying it which doesnt make it true.

You just cannot see common sense which is quite a problem.. and then you make stuff up... its very odd

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, steve oates said:

The big drop in player numbers in recent years is ...

 

... not evidenced by the most recent Sport England surveys?

[whatmichaelsays]

30 minutes ago, Eddie said:

How about St Helens then, where much industry closed but the game is still thriving? RL is dwindling for a number of reasons (other things to do, parents not wanting their kids to get hurt etc), but industrial closure isn’t one of them. 

I think industrial closure does play a part, but more at the older end of the spectrum. Where I think RL loses more of its audience (be it watching or playing) is in that late-teens and early-20s bracket, which is when people start moving around for work and study. 

That's where the loss of industry starts to force people to move away from "RL towns" (particularly in areas like Cumbria that have a higher-proportion of low-paid and seasonal work) and towards cities. They may come back later in life, as house prices means they look away from the cities and towards commuter towns for more space but that by then, you've probably lost them. 

[redjonn]

15 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

If you don't think Newcastle Thunder could benefit in any way from direct involvement in Magic Weekend in Newcastle I despair...

Actually I am not sure that a direct as in playing at St James will make that much difference.

They should be benefiting from having the whole magic weekend and playing at their own ground. Showcasing what a great entertainment activity be part of watching Newcastle at their own ground. Magic helps them in raising awareness of RL and being part of the weekend in that they play the night before.

I honestly don't see over and above what extra they would derive for actual playing at St James nor what RFL gains.  They are involved in the Weekend as it  starts with them showcasing a great experience at their ground - well it should do.

Plus are we saying that Magic is now permanently at St James... not forgetting St James may well be re-developed in next few years if club owners can persuade decision makers.

I can understand trying to get Newcastle public attending Magic - surely a ready made market to target for those that can never get to St James for the football as its impossible to get a ticket. Just don't think Newcastle playing will make much difference to that.

In fact what is the strategic purpose of Magic weekend.

 

 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

That's where the loss of industry starts to force people to move away from "RL towns" (particularly in areas like Cumbria that have a higher-proportion of low-paid and seasonal work) and towards cities. They may come back later in life, as house prices means they look away from the cities and towards commuter towns for more space but that by then, you've probably lost them. 

Which is why the RL Conference was such a positive. People who had moved away from the tiny handful of communities where rugby league has a presence could start up and play RL within a structure that supported it.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, steve oates said:

Would they have "seen this through" by setting up (costly) staff to run RL player development projects?

Would they have "seen this through" by purchasing a ground of their own to SL standards?

Should they have seen it through by losing £1.5 Million and more every year until they broke even - if they ever did?

In terms of Long termism how about:-

Sheffield Eagles, how far are they on with developing RL in sheffield and building their club after all those years?

Doncaster, How far are they on with getting the game played and supported across Doncaster this last what 60 years??

Now name clubs that have succeeded. But 12m is not a sufficient amount of time to know whether something will work. 

If one loss is enough to collapse, then the plan was weak as pee. 

[steve oates]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

While i dont know Newcastle in depth there is a large amount of junior and amatuer RL that has grown in the past 10 years that was not there and probably would not be there without the Thunder's work. 

So you don't know the club in depth yet you know there is there is a large amount of Junior and Amateur RL there? 

Maybe your talking out of it? I suggest you just go onto the website for the North East Junior ARL and Senior ARL  and you can point me to it.

[Mumby Magic]

2 hours ago, redjonn said:

Actually I am not sure that a direct as in playing at St James will make that much difference.

They should be benefiting from having the whole magic weekend and playing at their own ground. Showcasing what a great entertainment activity be part of watching Newcastle at their own ground. Magic helps them in raising awareness of RL and being part of the weekend in that they play the night before.

I honestly don't see over and above what extra they would derive for actual playing at St James nor what RFL gains.  They are involved in the Weekend as it  starts with them showcasing a great experience at their ground - well it should do.

Plus are we saying that Magic is now permanently at St James... not forgetting St James may well be re-developed in next few years if club owners can persuade decision makers.

I can understand trying to get Newcastle public attending Magic - surely a ready made market to target for those that can never get to St James for the football as its impossible to get a ticket. Just don't think Newcastle playing will make much difference to that.

In fact what is the strategic purpose of Magic weekend.

 

 

Personally I would put the Magic Weekend open to bids from towns/cities. Or, and here's one, Rugby League having a PLAN in place for the next three years or so.

[steve oates]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

... not evidenced by the most recent Sport England surveys?

Well again list me the actual junior and senior RL clubs mow active in the North East.

I'm happy to ne proved wrong .......

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Well again list me the actual junior and senior RL clubs mow active in the North East.

I'm happy to ne proved wrong .......

Your post was about the total player numbers and not the North East so why would I bother?

[RP London]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

So you don't know the club in depth yet you know there is there is a large amount of Junior and Amateur RL there? 

Maybe your talking out of it? I suggest you just go onto the website for the North East Junior ARL and Senior ARL  and you can point me to it.

seriously? you expect everyone to do your work for you? The Rugby League website has a North Eastern section showing the U14 league and cup, U 16 league and cup.. mens league etc.. there are people on this message board who are involved and telling us how much work is being done in the region... 

it may not be enough for you to be satisfied but its more than would be happening without a Newcastle team.. WHICH IS THE POINT.. as it shows the game expanding.

you really are lazy and then claiming it cant be so just because you cannot be arsed to find it... be a grown up and look.... but just for clarity here it is https://www.rugby-league.com/competitions/community-leagues/north-east/match-centre 

Edited July 20, 2022 by RP London

[steve oates]

43 minutes ago, RP London said:

seriously? you expect everyone to do your work for you? The Rugby League website has a North Eastern section showing the U14 league and cup, U 16 league and cup.. mens league etc.. there are people on this message board who are involved and telling us how much work is being done in the region... 

it may not be enough for you to be satisfied but its more than would be happening without a Newcastle team.. WHICH IS THE POINT.. as it shows the game expanding.

Quite the reverse, It names clubs who are no longer operating, it has many missing age ranges, and it only shows a handful of Fixtures mostly propped up by Catterick Garrison (a Yorkshire club) and Edingburgh Eagles.

Are you really serious that this league would provide enough Superleague professionals to assist Newcastle Thunder in climbing the tables into Superleague?

You do know the success rate for young players making professional is one in a hundred don't you?. 

So yes seriously

[RP London]

16 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Quite the reverse, It names clubs who are no longer operating, it has many missing age ranges, and it only shows a handful of Fixtures mostly propped up by Catterick Garrison (a Yorkshire club) and Edingburgh Eagles.

Are you really serious that this league would provide enough Superleague professionals to assist Newcastle Thunder in climbing the tables into Superleague?

You do know the success rate for young players making professional is one in a hundred don't you?. 

So yes seriously

when did anyone say anything about players for super league for Newcastle??? we were talking about expanding the games.. and there is expansion.. and expansion is about people taking part, people playing the game, getting the next set of coaches, admin, refs etc.. and thats men, women, kids, those in wheelchairs and those with physical and learning difficulties....

you do realise that link shows you fixtures and results yes? they are games that are happening. there is a North Eastern League that is happening.. there are junior clubs that are playing games.. There is a north eastern RL facebook page and twitter account that shows the activity that is going on.. just because you cant be arsed to look doesnt mean it isnt there. 

The BBC even reported this today on the RL page of the website https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/62207091 ... 

i'm moving on as you are just a bore that cant see the facts that everyone is putting in front of you.. you're like a child sticking his fingers in his ears singing so that they cant hear something they dont want to.

 

[Dallas Mead]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

Quite the reverse, It names clubs who are no longer operating, it has many missing age ranges, and it only shows a handful of Fixtures mostly propped up by Catterick Garrison (a Yorkshire club) and Edingburgh Eagles.

Are you really serious that this league would provide enough Superleague professionals to assist Newcastle Thunder in climbing the tables into Superleague?

You do know the success rate for young players making professional is one in a hundred don't you?. 

So yes seriously

Cheer up mate.

[Oxford]

19 hours ago, Dave T said:

But 12m is not a sufficient amount of time to know whether something will work. 

As this is the average for RFL/SL decsion making on all crucial and vital issues which were then scapped 10 minutes later I think you must reconfigurate your assessments there.

[Oxford]

17 hours ago, steve oates said:

So yes seriously

Does this include the Belgium Jury & those four Geordies at Leeds ? ( Or they not to be counted because it's Leeds when all's said and done!

Edited July 21, 2022 by Oxford
Far too political mentioned Keith FGS!

[PREPOSTEROUS]

Simple, Trinity are in free fall and by mid August we will be down. Shame as the start of the season was so promising in terms of performances, but since half time against Salford in April (home game) we have been pretty poor. The fact we've lost twice to Toulouse has sealed our fate to he honest. There is an eight point turnaround right there. Regardless, if we managed to survive this year we'd be down next, either getting relegated or dropped as part of the new structure.

[idrewthehaggis]

2 hours ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Simple, Trinity are in free fall and by mid August we will be down. Shame as the start of the season was so promising in terms of performances, but since half time against Salford in April (home game) we have been pretty poor. The fact we've lost twice to Toulouse has sealed our fate to he honest. There is an eight point turnaround right there. Regardless, if we managed to survive this year we'd be down next, either getting relegated or dropped as part of the new structure.

Cheers up fella.

Go and watch that KR v SRD Million Pound Game and ask yourself if certainty is really erm certain in RL.

Plus next season, we will probably have Leigh- the resident SL whipping boys and every possible and much desired by some Salfordian collapse that never really happens.

Cheer up. You could be Bradford.

 

[steve oates]

On 20/07/2022 at 15:06, RP London said:

when did anyone say anything about players for super league for Newcastle??? 

You do realise that link shows you fixtures and results yes? they are games that are happening. there is a North Eastern League that is happening.. there are junior clubs that are playing games..

I'm moving on as you are just a bore that cant see the facts that everyone is putting in front of you.. you're like a child sticking his fingers in his ears singing so that they cant hear something they dont want to.

Don't turn it on me. Stick to the debate which is the idea that failing M62 clubs can stand aside for booming new clubs in new areas. A few years ago it was looking good for Newcastle but the reality is the grass roots they had a few years back have faded away, same as London and both clubs academy sides are adrift and struggling at the rock bottom of the league. 

It may anger you that the game really isn't expanding into new places, It may anger me that the game is being allowed to shrivel in the old places like Widnes, Oldham and Swinton. I hear people tell be that we should abandon Bradford Bulls as they have had their day, and that means abandoning thousands of fans and leaving some great young RL players in Bradford no pathway to becoming professional.

Now that IS something to be angry about............ 

[RP London]

43 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Don't turn it on me. Stick to the debate which is the idea that failing M62 clubs can stand aside for booming new clubs in new areas. A few years ago it was looking good for Newcastle but the reality is the grass roots they had a few years back have faded away, same as London and both clubs academy sides are adrift and struggling at the rock bottom of the league. 

It may anger you that the game really isn't expanding into new places, It may anger me that the game is being allowed to shrivel in the old places like Widnes, Oldham and Swinton. I hear people tell be that we should abandon Bradford Bulls as they have had their day, and that means abandoning thousands of fans and leaving some great young RL players in Bradford no pathway to becoming professional.

Now that IS something to be angry about............ 

What utter uninformed illeducated drivel.. and you've been shown it over and over again by more than just me with facts and links... but you just cannot see hand infront of your face. 

Ignore time... 

Edited July 21, 2022 by RP London

[Kayakman]

On 18/07/2022 at 06:43, fighting irish said:

Remarkable acuity, from so far away.

Sorry for the late reply but I've been up North in the Bush hence the late reply.

Thank you.....My eyesight is acute after ample observation....this is the way of the wolf!