Wolves sign Josh McGuire

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Then next time a wife goes to the hospital with her face stoved in the doctor will say don't worry these injuries will soon heal,it could be worse he could have called you names.

Actually, and I would know having worked with a fair few women in this position, the "hurty words" stay with them long after physical scars have healed. Beating, and worse, is usually the last aspect of a controlling evil person to emerge. They are used to belittle, manipulate and control a person by making them feel worthless and insignificant.

Psychological trauma takes far longer to heal, and often isn't just from one source.

If McGuire wanted to hurt Charnley he could have just punched him in the face, or done a sly shot, or just been physical in a tackle. Instead he went personal about an individual not present to defend themselves and by all accounts too vulnerable to do so. As many have said McGuire is lucky to have walked off the pitch, indeed people get worse for far less out there.

As I said earlier in the thread, if someone had reported it to the police it would be a public order offence with an aggravating factor of disability hate. I'm glad for only the sport's sake that it hasn't got to that, but it is worth bearing in mind the potential severity here.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

People on here comparing the severity of this offence to physical violence: There's no need to do so.

Let's accept that both things are not what we want, and they get punished on their own terms when severe enough to merit it. 

[Tommygilf]

Add to this as well, isn't Charnley a repeat victim here? 

[Snowys Backside]

The few defending McGuire are the ignorant ones. They can decide themselves who they are. 
 

99.9% of Wire fans are good fans and a huge majority are fuming to the extent that they want the CEO to follow him should McGuire not be dismissed today. My phone has been pinging since the Leigh game and McGuire wasn’t injured ! Wolves knew what was coming !
 

Living in Warrington, I will get more ins and outs when I get back home, but there will be no closure on this until the right action has been taken. 

If this had of been a Leigh player, I think his Quantas flight would have been booked and DB would have kicked him to the airport already !

Its now about protecting the clubs reputation, not McGuire. Let’s hope they take the right action quickly and threads like this dissolve. No doubt they will find an Excellent replacement. 

[RP London]

15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Let's all just cam down , nobody on here is defending him , some think the punishment doesn't really fit the crime , but overall everybody agrees , the bloke is a knob , we don't need him in our sport in this country 

Best to just leave it at that , this week's match threads are up , let's see some predictions and all forget about somebody not worth our time and thoughts 

Actually that last bit is very fair and important. He is taking up headspace and board space now when he should be kicked out of the game and forgotten about by all of us here. Let him head back to Australia where he can pick up a job, preferably not influencing kids or the game, and we can move on with the great sport, being played in the great way it normally is. Just look at how Charnley acted to the injury on the weekend, same with a couple of other reactions of opposition players to other big injuries on the weekend. Those are the actions we should focus on as well as the great tries and great, big, legal, hits, this absolute clown should get no more thought and you are absolutely right in that. 

I assume the delay with Warrington is about the legal advice but he should be packing his stuff.

[Ragingbull]

8 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

The few defending McGuire are the ignorant ones. They can decide themselves who they are. 
 

99.9% of Wire fans are good fans and a huge majority are fuming to the extent that they want the CEO to follow him should McGuire not be dismissed today. My phone has been pinging since the Leigh game and McGuire wasn’t injured ! Wolves knew what was coming !
 

Living in Warrington, I will get more ins and outs when I get back home, but there will be no closure on this until the right action has been taken. 

If this had of been a Leigh player, I think his Quantas flight would have been booked and DB would have kicked him to the airport already !

Its now about protecting the clubs reputation, not McGuire. Let’s hope they take the right action quickly and threads like this dissolve. No doubt they will find an Excellent replacement. 

Im not sure using Leigh and DB  as an example of a club who have high morals when it comes to players is a particularly good example.......

[Tim Streets tache]

29 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Add to this as well, isn't Charnley a repeat victim here? 

No

Edited June 7, 2023 by Tim Streets tache

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Tim Streets tache said:

No

Ah I was unsure whether it was him abuse was directed at in the preseason game by McGuire.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I think some people are missing the point of this.

This difference between a physical act and this are the the further only affects one player and the latter affected many. The ramifications for letting this kind of thing slide affect a huge group of people who are already struggling through no fault of their own. It's not "just a word", it has huge context. It's pretty ignorant to think otherwise. It's not acceptable at all.

[Guest]

To save me the hassle of reading through - what did he say to Josh?

[DemonUK]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Ah I was unsure whether it was him abuse was directed at in the preseason game by McGuire.

In the preseaon game it was directed at Tom Amone I think

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I think some people are missing the point of this.

This difference between a physical act and this are the the further only affects one player and the latter affected many. The ramifications for letting this kind of thing slide affect a huge group of people who are already struggling through no fault of their own. It's not "just a word", it has huge context. It's pretty ignorant to think otherwise. It's not acceptable at all.

And the reputational damage to a sport that of course wants to be inclusive.

[RigbyLuger]

56 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

The few defending McGuire are the ignorant ones. They can decide themselves who they are. 
 

99.9% of Wire fans are good fans and a huge majority are fuming to the extent that they want the CEO to follow him should McGuire not be dismissed today. My phone has been pinging since the Leigh game and McGuire wasn’t injured ! Wolves knew what was coming !

Would be interesting to know who pushed for the signing in the first place, coach, CEO or other.

[Snowys Backside]

58 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

Im not sure using Leigh and DB  as an example of a club who have high morals when it comes to players is a particularly good example.......

I know what you are elaborating too, but when it comes to Charity, helping others, Disability awareness and the rest of that kind, Dereks integrity cannot be questioned. 
 

Look up why Leigh wore that shirt on the Magic weekend and why. The club gained nothing from us and went into the coffers of various charities including Autism Awareness. 
 

Can Derek balloon over a glass of Vino ?  Of course he can.  Can’t we all (or are you the true Gentleman ?)

[LeytherRob]

37 minutes ago, Leonard said:

To save me the hassle of reading through - what did he say to Josh?

Nothing has been confirmed, however the rumours are that it was something derogatory about Charnley's autistic son

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Actually, and I would know having worked with a fair few women in this position, the "hurty words" stay with them long after physical scars have healed. Beating, and worse, is usually the last aspect of a controlling evil person to emerge. They are used to belittle, manipulate and control a person by making them feel worthless and insignificant.

Psychological trauma takes far longer to heal, and often isn't just from one source.

If McGuire wanted to hurt Charnley he could have just punched him in the face, or done a sly shot, or just been physical in a tackle. Instead he went personal about an individual not present to defend themselves and by all accounts too vulnerable to do so. As many have said McGuire is lucky to have walked off the pitch, indeed people get worse for far less out there.

As I said earlier in the thread, if someone had reported it to the police it would be a public order offence with an aggravating factor of disability hate. I'm glad for only the sport's sake that it hasn't got to that, but it is worth bearing in mind the potential severity here.

I will not go through the process of arguing one or the other because it's not black and white it's individual, I replied to OF ABIT quick and should have put a slightly different response which after he replied I explained. I will not quote were my experience comes from because as I stated it's individual on how both terrible abuses effect people.

[StandOffHalf]

4 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Bl00dy oath mate!  First day at work in Oz one of my new work colleagues, a women’s in her forties, was telling me about the various teams in the large open place Council office.  She gave her views on each team then said in a loudish voice whilst pointing ‘Be careful with that team they are full of - the word rhymes with togs but starts with a W ’’.

I looked around and no one batted an eyelid.  I didn’t realise that that particular word meant someone from, or a descendant of someone from, a country around the Mediterranean area

Aussies are more forward. McGuire will have just been bantering and would have had no issue with apologising, I am sure. He's tough but not a nasty guy at all off the field.

I am sad at the response to this ''NON STORY'', as Lewis Schafer might put it.

[StandOffHalf]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Let's be honest, nobody thought this was how this was going to end. A gouge, maybe, even dissent to an extent, but nobody predicted this. 

THis article was interesting, I assume he took the one match ban for dissent, but interesting how the NRL treated another player who called the ref an "effing r**ard" - 2 match ban. 

NRL: Josh McGuire's vile rant towards referee revealed (yahoo.com)

Just to be clear, it was AFB who called the ref that.

If that was in SL, he'd have been sent off. The different levels of acceptability is something that has become more noticeable over the last decade or so. I remember Gallen in an Origin saying that a ref's call was an ''effing disgrace'' with the ref just telling him to be careful of his language.

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Aussies are more forward. McGuire will have just been bantering and would have had no issue with apologising, I am sure. He's tough but not a nasty guy at all off the field.

I am sad at the response to this ''NON STORY'', as Lewis Schafer might put it.

I'm sorry, but that just isn't an excuse or defence.

[RigbyLuger]

Ahh, the "It was just banter!" defence?

[Gavin Harrison]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Actually, and I would know having worked with a fair few women in this position, the "hurty words" stay with them long after physical scars have healed. Beating, and worse, is usually the last aspect of a controlling evil person to emerge. They are used to belittle, manipulate and control a person by making them feel worthless and insignificant.

Psychological trauma takes far longer to heal, and often isn't just from one source.

If McGuire wanted to hurt Charnley he could have just punched him in the face, or done a sly shot, or just been physical in a tackle. Instead he went personal about an individual not present to defend themselves and by all accounts too vulnerable to do so. As many have said McGuire is lucky to have walked off the pitch, indeed people get worse for far less out there.

As I said earlier in the thread, if someone had reported it to the police it would be a public order offence with an aggravating factor of disability hate. I'm glad for only the sport's sake that it hasn't got to that, but it is worth bearing in mind the potential severity here.

Your conflation of the two situations is completely inappropriate.

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, Gavin Harrison said:

Your conflation of the two situations is completely inappropriate.

It wasn't my conflation

[Gavin Harrison]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

yes because insults never lead to people being excluded or to psychological issues and suicide do they.. no never.. 

(and, as I said, I think they got the punsihment for Ben Flower wrong... but dont let that get in the way)

In isolation, as in this instance, no.

Suocide results from very long lasting psychological issues. It's not a spintaneous act.

To conflate an on field commwnt with it is frankly silly.

It's akin to saying a player who makes a high tackle is linked to physical domestic abuse.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Gavin Harrison said:

In isolation, as in this instance, no.

Suocide results from very long lasting psychological issues. It's not a spintaneous act.

To conflate an on field commwnt with it is frankly silly.

It's akin to saying a player who makes a high tackle is linked to physical domestic abuse.

Do you think McGuire is the only person who will make these comments or act differently to Charnley and his child because of a disability? Is this really isolated?

[RP London]

9 minutes ago, Gavin Harrison said:

In isolation, as in this instance, no.

Suocide results from very long lasting psychological issues. It's not a spintaneous act.

To conflate an on field commwnt with it is frankly silly.

It's akin to saying a player who makes a high tackle is linked to physical domestic abuse.

If we're talking long lasting psychological issues rather than a spontaneous act then lets stop the cycle.. lets take away yet another moment that helps that spiral into mental anguish and torment. That is a good thing.. we should not be prepared to have one single moment where we dont try and stop this, on the terraces or on the pitches. One moment is too many, one MORE moment is worse... how much is this a one off and how much is this yet another thing that they hear, not just the person it is aimed at but others in their situation affected by this sort of language. There is often the "last straw" for mental health and suicides too, by breaking that cycle maybe you are removing that moment too.

and as I have continually stressed I dont compare the two when looking at punishments as I think that is far too simplistic an approach and the way to tackle them and to deal with them are different.. I'm not the one who compares them.. but I also dont think the "hurty words" argument is either useful or clever on a subject where this, more often than not, is not an isolated incident and where "role models" really do need to stand up to help stop something that can have terrible consequences, someone has to stop the cycle and the RFL have said its them and its now.. and that should be applauded not lambasted.. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by RP London