RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Mattrhino]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think an example of the problem with Duttons approach is around what we have been discussing here on the last few pages. 

In his defensiveness around his decisions, he has made the claim that the RLWC is struggling to break even. That has caused a bit of a ripple (and it is only a bit of a ripple because RL is so insignificant), and there is noise around the WC being a failure. i think it was a particularly misguided thing to say. 

We went from a place of disappointing crowds but making money, to disappointing crowds and making no money, which is dire. Now as it turns out, the reality was the first scenario, but his poor, defensive comms has led to a more negative narrative than reality. 

His messaging around staying consistent on rewarding loyal early buyers is the right message if they aren't going to budge. And on top he should have highlighted that this RLWC was going to deliver record investment for RL across the globe and maintaining higher but fair prices was an important part of that. Some may not have liked the refusal to reduce, but it is a really positive message that only portrays RLWC in a positive light, whilst sticking to their pricing principle. 

I don't really get this. Why is it a bad thing to be dynamic and flexible on prices. 

If your the kind of person who buys a ticket a year in advance then you'll probably always do it. Just like the people who pay high prices on holidays 2 years in advance. Because these people like to have things organised.

I'm the opposite. I like to float around at the last minute or a few months prior and look for sales or bargains. 

Whats wrong with trying to get the "floating voter's"  cash.

[Spidey]

27 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

I don't really get this. Why is it a bad thing to be dynamic and flexible on prices. 

If your the kind of person who buys a ticket a year in advance then you'll probably always do it. Just like the people who pay high prices on holidays 2 years in advance. Because these people like to have things organised.

I'm the opposite. I like to float around at the last minute or a few months prior and look for sales or bargains. 

Whats wrong with trying to get the "floating voter's"  cash.

The more wait and see customers you get, you lose the early bird buyers. 

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

I don't really get this. Why is it a bad thing to be dynamic and flexible on prices. 

If your the kind of person who buys a ticket a year in advance then you'll probably always do it. Just like the people who pay high prices on holidays 2 years in advance. Because these people like to have things organised.

I'm the opposite. I like to float around at the last minute or a few months prior and look for sales or bargains. 

Whats wrong with trying to get the "floating voter's"  cash.

I think there's a problem that RL wants more early buyers to lock in income and attendees earlier. Late discounts tickets undermine that aim.

People buying late generally impacts attendances too as ultimately the game has to be more attractive to the individual. Usually that is through their own club's involvement, but there is no guarantee of that clearly; so the potential numbers are smaller and determined by the number of fans any two given clubs have. Its no secret the RFL have been relying on certain "well followed" clubs reaching major finals to secure lots of late ticket sales on top of middling at best pre-sales because of this late buying culture they have nurtured.

For example, in 2016 I went to the Challenge Cup Final. I only went because a few of us decided to get Club Wembley tickets (at a very good, potentially even discounted price) basically a year in advance. Had it been the same ticket, the same price, but offered to me a week before the final, I wouldn't have gone because my interest in going wasn't high enough on its own to persuade me to part with my cash.

[N2022]

Not sure they needed massive discounts. Even just capping children's tickets at a lower price or doing a family discount on 1 adult and 2 or more children would have been a nice touch and brought in more young spectators, who are after all the future of the game. Whilst I accept they need to make profit/break even, attendance is important for atmosphere / experience / exposure and demographic profile of those attending is important for the future health of the game. In the nicest possible way, if all the crowd were 85 years old, that would be lovely for that generation, but unlikely to suggest the future of the game was bright. Guess someone's doing those metrics.

[Guest]

I see all the £25 tickets sold out again.

[Mattrhino]

48 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think there's a problem that RL wants more early buyers to lock in income and attendees earlier. Late discounts tickets undermine that aim.

People buying late generally impacts attendances too as ultimately the game has to be more attractive to the individual. Usually that is through their own club's involvement, but there is no guarantee of that clearly; so the potential numbers are smaller and determined by the number of fans any two given clubs have. Its no secret the RFL have been relying on certain "well followed" clubs reaching major finals to secure lots of late ticket sales on top of middling at best pre-sales because of this late buying culture they have nurtured.

For example, in 2016 I went to the Challenge Cup Final. I only went because a few of us decided to get Club Wembley tickets (at a very good, potentially even discounted price) basically a year in advance. Had it been the same ticket, the same price, but offered to me a week before the final, I wouldn't have gone because my interest in going wasn't high enough on its own to persuade me to part with my cash.

That works if you have a in-demand event that is likely to sell out x times over. But whats the incentive to buy a ticket to an event a year in advance that won't sell out and because of some dogmatic reasons you refuse to be flexible on pricing when you have 10,000's of empty seats. Sometimes 75% of the stadium is empty.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Mattrhino said:

That works if you have a in-demand event that is likely to sell out x times over. But whats the incentive to buy a ticket to an event a year in advance that won't sell out and because of some dogmatic reasons you refuse to be flexible on pricing when you have 10,000's of empty seats. Sometimes 75% of the stadium is empty.

Agreed, I'm not defending the policy I'm just explaining the logic.

I think the actual prices have been too high and illogical considering the density of tickets available in certain areas/times.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

That works if you have a in-demand event that is likely to sell out x times over. But whats the incentive to buy a ticket to an event a year in advance that won't sell out and because of some dogmatic reasons you refuse to be flexible on pricing when you have 10,000's of empty seats. Sometimes 75% of the stadium is empty.

Because they will still make more money than giving into grifters after something for nothing.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Mattrhino said:

That works if you have a in-demand event that is likely to sell out x times over. But whats the incentive to buy a ticket to an event a year in advance that won't sell out and because of some dogmatic reasons you refuse to be flexible on pricing when you have 10,000's of empty seats. Sometimes 75% of the stadium is empty.

There's a damn site more incentive to buy early if you are guaranteed to get the best deal compared to doing nothing. Doing nothing simply leads to poor sales and then the issuing of promo codes, partly because everyone in RL now expects promo codes having been stung previously.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Damien

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

I see all the £25 tickets sold out again.

People could really move more centrally! Amazed they don't 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

People could really move more centrally! Amazed they don't 

Yup - did that last week.

[Big Picture]

7,753 announced for Tonga vs Wales tonight, making the total now 157,886 and the average 10,525.

[ELBOWSEYE]

Just a side note isn't it refreshing watching the Tongan supporters at the games. 

[EssexRL]

1 minute ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Just a side note isn't it refreshing watching the Tongan supporters at the games. 

It has been great seeing people supporting clubs like Tonga and Lebanon. 

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

I don't really get this. Why is it a bad thing to be dynamic and flexible on prices. 

If your the kind of person who buys a ticket a year in advance then you'll probably always do it. Just like the people who pay high prices on holidays 2 years in advance. Because these people like to have things organised.

I'm the opposite. I like to float around at the last minute or a few months prior and look for sales or bargains. 

Whats wrong with trying to get the "floating voter's"  cash.

I don't myself, but you failed to highlight my last few words of that sentence. 

It's not a strategy I'd use, but he swears by it. To the extent he's happy to see thousands of empty seats. 

[Mr Frisky]

17 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

7,753 announced for Tonga vs Wales tonight, making the total now 157,886 and the average 10,525.

You would hope, if the group games can average above 10 / 11k then the knockout games should help push the average up quite a bit.

[bratman]

I'm guessing at 420000 total.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

The more wait and see customers you get, you lose the early bird buyers. 

It's an interesting one though, we discount one group but not the other. 

The problem is, it would appear there is more demand for the late buyer market. 

Ultimately, its a bit of a red herring imho. RL always has empty seats, so people will buy at their own pace. 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Leonard said:

I see all the £25 tickets sold out again.

You do know that isn't a zinger you and Dutton think it is?

It means £25 is too high for this game. 

It also means many other things are wrong. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

It's an interesting one though, we discount one group but not the other. 

The problem is, it would appear there is more demand for the late buyer market. 

Ultimately, its a bit of a red herring imho. RL always has empty seats, so people will buy at their own pace. 

You know the answer

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You do know that isn't a zinger you and Dutton think it is?

It means £25 is too high for this game. 

It also means many other things are wrong. 

Which suggest if lower league football teams just dropped their prices they would always sell out.

I disagree price is always the only determining factor and that bums on seats is the only relevant metric.

Putting aside £25 is not too much.

On that basis France vs Greece should have been £5 or £2.50.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Leonard

[redjonn]

Money should be made on the corporate and hospitality. Enables lower prices elsewhere or adjustments can be more easily made

I think you will find commercial /hospitality sales are poor - overpriced or lack of sales from my experience.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Leonard said:

Which suggest if lower league football teams just dropped their prices they would always sell out.

I disagree price is always the only determining factor and that bums on seats is the only relevant metric.

Putting aside £25 is not too much.

On that basis France vs Greece should have been £5 or £2.50.

That would be a crazy thing for anyone to think. And I've never heard anyone claim it. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, redjonn said:

Money should be made on the corporate and hospitality. Enables lower prices elsewhere or adjustments can be more easily made

I think you will find commercial /hospitality sales are poor - overpriced or lack of sales from my experience.

They boasted they have smashed all previous hospitality records. 

The prices for those really are eye-watering. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

14 minutes ago, bratman said:

I'm guessing at 420000 total.

That's around what I'm thinking.

My personal desire with the attendances is really just for the average to beat 2017 which was 13,300 so we don't have two World Cups in a row where the average decreases and I think if we can do that with all the problems this tournament has faced then it will be a satisfying outcome.