England starting 17 for next week - Who would you pick?

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Don't think its a case of 'upsetting' him, more the case Wane doesn't think he's as good as the forwards he's picked

Oledski has been one of the best props all season, Mike Cooper however…

[WN83]

1 minute ago, Saint Toppy said:

Don't think its a case of 'upsetting' him, more the case Wane doesn't think he's as good as the forwards he's picked

Is probably about right and I think the others did more in their first appearance to impress him then Oledzki did in his. He's also seeing them in training each day and he can't pick them all.

In terms of the squad, Thompson is the surprising one. I'm thinking maybe a niggle. He's certainly going for a forward pack that he thinks can outlast the PNG team in an energy battle. I wonder if he might be tempted with Sneyd this week. Turning those big PNG boys around, in wet weather, with the kicking game he'll bring may be something he fancies as a horses for courses selection. 

[WN83]

3 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Oledski has been one of the best props all season, Mike Cooper however…

Cooper has had a pretty good season in fairness to him (regardless of how poor Wire were) and he has been very good in his two games so far. Cooper got a chance against Samoa and took it, Oledzki got a chance against a weaker side and didn't. It looks that simple to me. 

[Neutralfan7]

Sneyd plays this week for me, big PNG team, wet weather conditions, kicking game will be crucial. Welsby on bench for  cover

[Saint Toppy]

8 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Oledski has been one of the best props all season, Mike Cooper however…

Not sure Oledski would have even made the England squad had Walmsley been fit

[usain bolt]

7 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Sneyd & KPP to miss out for me of that 19

Tomkins, Makinson, Watkins, Farnworth, Young, Welsby, Williams, Hill, McIlorum, Burgess, Whitehead, Bateman, Radley - Knowles, McMeeken, Cooper, Lees.

PNG's game is based around getting dominance with their forwards so i suspect Wane will go with 4 forwards on the bench, particularly as its going to be a wet weather game.

 

Same 17 for me I think, 4 forwards with Bateman able to fill a backs role if necessary and Radley back up 9. 

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Not sure Oledski would have even made the England squad had Walmsley been fit

Why,as i say he has been one of the best props in SL this year.

he pretty much carried Leeds all the way to the GF

[Chrispmartha]

Anyway, i think this game is a potential banana skin for England, PNG will be a tricky side to play against.

Would be a disaster to slip up in this one

[MattSantos]

Can't play Sneyd above Williams or Welsby. If Tomkins is injured, Welsby to 1 and then Sneyd of course of slots in. 

Play our best combinations. 3 games to go.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

On 31/10/2022 at 15:29, SalfordSlim said:

Hate to say it (as Hill winds me up in SL!) but I'm with you here. He's been excellent so far.

Agreed

[Dunbar]

As mentioned, I would have had Oledzki but that is a strong England side.

[DavidM]

Is Thompson injured ? He’s been strong off the bench , is a good impact player and is one of the few with an offload , which is important .

[Toby Chopra]

50 minutes ago, Neutralfan7 said:

Sneyd plays this week for me, big PNG team, wet weather conditions, kicking game will be crucial. Welsby on bench for  cover

Whatever the merits of Sneyds kicking game, Welsby starts somewhere without fail. 

[Toby Chopra]

Is Thompson injured? 

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

Why,as i say he has been one of the best props in SL this year.

he pretty much carried Leeds all the way to the GF

I think thats irrelevant when you compare him to the others. Walmsley, Burgess and probably Thompson were pretty much nailed on as 3 of the front rowers if they were all fit. Hill's form has been exceptional this year for the Giants and he probably offers a lot more than Oledski does at this time. That then leaves Lees & Cooper. Wane has long said he's a big admirer of Matty Lees, especially after the last England Knights tour where he was voted England's player of the tour where Lees completely outplayed the PNG forwards that day. Lees has just started to get back to that kind of form again this year (after the cheap shot from fatty Ferres put him in hospital a few seasons ago), so its understandable why Wane has Lees in his squad again now. As for Cooper, while Wire have been awful he was one of the few who was playing well and the fact that Wane wanted him at Wigan tells you all you need to know about what he thinks about him as a player.

So going back to my earlier comment - if everyone was fit its highly likely that Oledski would have been the one who would have missed out on Wane's squad if Walmsley was available. No matter how much of a great player you think Oledski is, I don't think Wane rates him anywhere near as highly as the others he's picked.

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

I think thats irrelevant when you compare him to the others. Walmsley, Burgess and probably Thompson were pretty much nailed on as 3 of the front rowers if they were all fit. Hill's form has been exceptional this year for the Giants and he probably offers a lot more than Oledski does at this time. That then leaves Lees & Cooper. Wane has long said he's a big admirer of Matty Lees, especially after the last England Knights tour where he was voted England's player of the tour where Lees completely outplayed the PNG forwards that day. Lees has just started to get back to that kind of form again this year (after the cheap shot from fatty Ferres put him in hospital a few seasons ago), so its understandable why Wane has Lees in his squad again now. As for Cooper, while Wire have been awful he was one of the few who was playing well and the fact that Wane wanted him at Wigan tells you all you need to know about what he thinks about him as a player.

So going back to my earlier comment - if everyone was fit its highly likely that Oledski would have been the one who would have missed out on Wane's squad if Walmsley was available. No matter how much of a great player you think Oledski is, I don't think Wane rates him anywhere near as highly as the others he's picked.

I Know Wane doesn't rate him as much as the others, that's obvious.

[WN83]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I Know Wane doesn't rate him as much as the others, that's obvious.

I've heard Wane speak very highly of him. I think Oledzki may have just been a touch unfortunate here, he carried that injury through the play offs and was then rested for the Fiji friendly and the team hit the ground running straight from that game and it's been an uphill battle since then. He's a cracking player and will be around this squad for a long time, I'm sure of that but certain tournaments just don't fall a players way and sometimes it isn't their fault. I still wouldn't put it beyond the lad being involved in this one. A win Saturday with an injury or two or a suspension (or a poor performance) might open up a spot for him. 

[The Legend]

Looks like Shaun Wane doesn't fancy Thompson. 

Probably the only surprise for me not to make the 19

[GeordieSaint]

14 minutes ago, The Legend said:

Looks like Shaun Wane doesn't fancy Thompson. 

Probably the only surprise for me not to make the 19

I am hoping there is a bit of a niggle as if we win, the lack of Thompson makes that bench look lightweight for the Tonga/Samoa SF. 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

KPP and Sneyd to miss out you would think. Really surprised at Thompson's omission as he's been pretty good bringing some energy off the bench. Could be a niggle I guess because he's a different level to Lees and Cooper.

[Saint Toppy]

24 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

KPP and Sneyd to miss out you would think. Really surprised at Thompson's omission as he's been pretty good bringing some energy off the bench. Could be a niggle I guess because he's a different level to Lees and Cooper.

I agree. Thompson is probably the 3rd best English Prop behind Burgess & Walmsley. Can only think he's carrying a knock as to why he's not been picked this week.

[Loiner]

On 31/10/2022 at 15:26, WN83 said:

Chris Hill has been outstanding so far. That move to Huddersfield really seems to have given him a new lease of life and he’s played as well in this tournament as he was doing when he was being raved about in his first couple of seasons at Wire. 
 

I wouldn’t pick Oledzki based simply on that first game and performances since and I think others have done more to hold a place. I was a bit surprised with how skinny Oledzki looks now. He’s clearly worked extremely hard on his fitness and is feeling the benefit at club level but I thought the old version, were he was a bit bulkier might’ve served him better at international level. He’s not going to get 60-70 minutes for England, like he might get at Leeds and he’ll need to make a bit more of an impact t in a shorter spell on the field. 

I would tend to agree with most of that apart from not picking Oledski based on one game. Would you not pick Welsby based on the fact he did zero against a very poor Greek side ?

[FearTheVee]

Just now, Loiner said:

I would tend to agree with most of that apart from not picking Oledski based on one game. Would you not pick Welsby based on the fact he did zero against a very poor Greek side ?

Playing as a centre?

[Loiner]

8 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Playing as a centre?

Forgive me but I thought he was that good he could play anywhere?  Personally I would have him at fullback but I'm not the coach.

[WN83]

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

I would tend to agree with most of that apart from not picking Oledski based on one game. Would you not pick Welsby based on the fact he did zero against a very poor Greek side ?

I've expanded on my reasons pretty recently in the thread. I think he's been unlucky tbh. I personally would've played him in that first game but lads had really impressed against Fiji, when Oledzki was rested and they got the nod for the first game. Oledzki did not do much in his outing against France and his competition have played well, not only in the friendly but then against Samoa and Greece. He's been unfortunate but based on what we've seen in the comp, it's the right call IMO (and seeing as mine means diddly squat, it's more important that it seems to be Wanes opinion as well). 

As for Welsby, clearly he plays. His tournament sums up why I dislike him so much at club level. He's a big game player and the bigger the game, the better he is. His attitude is everything you want in a player. It also helps he doesn't have another 6 or 7 players in his position to go up against, unlike Oledzki.