Electric Cars

[RayCee]

Do many on the forum own one and how do you rate it? In Kiwiland as in many other places, they are getting subsidised while fossil fuel cars are being penalised. That still hasn't stopped most punters going the petrol/diesel route. So what puts me off considering an electric car?

Range anxiety: In a country with fairly large distances, refueling is an issue.

Charging times: That's not a biggie but still inconvenient.

Initial purchase price: Despite subsidies they are still expensive.

Battery degradation: Links up with range anxiety, gets worse as the car ages. 

What's to like?

Cheaper to run and maintain: That doesn't fully offset the initial purchase price but still useful.

Nice to drive: I've only driven one once and for a short distance in town but I loved the quietness and perky performance.

Conclusion: Hybrid is an option I'd consider but electric is a bridge too far at present.

[tim2]

We dropped from two cars to one last year and we sometimes need to do 300-400 miles in a single run so the one car is a diesel, although we'll probably switch to petrol/hybrid next. My son has a Nissan Leaf that he likes, but they also have a people carrier so there is a back up for the longer runs. My nephew also has the Leaf, as does my neighbour. My brother-in-law has a Tesla, which seems pretty good. My sister has a Toyota hybrid. Can't remember which model, it's an SUV but that's nice but expensive. 

I'm not surprised you have range anxiety in New Zealand. I had it when touring the South Island. Missed a fuel stop and almost ran out 100km later. Cruised into the fuel station at 6.30pm to find it ahd shut at 6pm, however the bar next door had a key and opened up for me and another car. It cost us $10 extra.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by tim2

[The Masked Poster]

Great idea that is being rushed through for political expediency and will ultimately backfire. The people I know who have them, have them through work and have totally had to replan even fairly basic journeys in order to be able to do them. Sounds like a total PITA to me. 

Phase them in and get to a point where people can actually afford them THEN they might be a success. 

[gazza77]

I have a Jaguar Ipace, which I've had two years. Bar a few software quirks in the first couple of months, it's been great. It's leased through a salary sacrifice scheme at work, so costs me about £350 a month, including insurance and maintenance. All I have to do is plug it in.

Range is approximately 220 miles in winter and 250/60 in summer. For our lifestyle that's fine: I've only had 4 times in the two years where I wouldn't have been able to get there and back without charging away from home. Rapid charging when used has been fine, however variables such as ambient weather etc. could potentially impact. From my experience however, drive a couple of hundred miles, stop for a loo and brew break, charge whilst doing that and you're good for the rest of the journey. 

Subject to their being something I like the look of when it comes to replacement, I can't see us going back to fossil fuel power for our main vehicle. I appreciate entirely however that they're still only viable if they work with your personal circumstances at present. 

[Exiled Townie]

Son has an electric  works car, Mercedes EQC, and he cannot fault it - its priced at over £70K so it should be good for that price.  Been in it a few times and it is a great car.  Very economical and fast and reliable over long  distances. (300 miles on full battery and 40 min recharge).   However I also know a few people with 'standard' electric vehicles and the three things they always talk about is how much it cost to buy,  the distance they can travel, and how long it takes to charge. 

Not sure I'd buy electric yet. 

[hw88]

I have a Smart Fortwo. Love it. Brilliant acceleration, can turn on a sixpence. The only downside is the very limited range - 70 miles or so. The smaller the car, the smaller the battery, so the shorter the range. As I only use it for nipping around town or going to the bowls club this doesn't matter***. I just use an ordinary 3-pin plug in the garage to charge it up - takes about 9 hours to fully recharge but as this is overnight it doesn't matter. It comes with a cable that you can plug into commercial charging points which is obviously much quicker. It is cheaper than diesel but in the year I have owned it I have found it increasingly harder to get vacant charging ports.

Would I buy another electric car? Yes - but not another Smart because of the limited range.

*** I also own a Land Rover for longer journeys.***

[GUBRATS]

I recently bought an 08 Dodge Nitro , 2.8 turbo diesel , gets around 22 mpg round town , love it paid under 2.5 grand for it 

Or I could spend 50 K on an electric 

 

[hw88]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

I recently bought an 08 Dodge Nitro , 2.8 turbo diesel , gets around 22 mpg round town , love it paid under 2.5 grand for it 

Or I could spend 50 K on an electric 

 

Careful, Greta and her Just Stop Oil chums will be after you!!

[Bedford Roughyed]

Sister got a Vauxhall Corsa-E.  Part of the deal included a free wall home charger.  For her day to day commutes, it has been fantastic.  

The downsides have been on longer journeys, where you are reliant on other infrastructure.  It's not uncommon to get to a services and find a queue at the limited chargers, or worse a number of chargers broken.

[RayCee]

1 hour ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Sister got a Vauxhall Corsa-E.  Part of the deal included a free wall home charger.  For her day to day commutes, it has been fantastic.  

The downsides have been on longer journeys, where you are reliant on other infrastructure.  It's not uncommon to get to a services and find a queue at the limited chargers, or worse a number of chargers broken.

That's another issue electric car owners face.

I think hydrogen fuel cell is a better bet long term on so many levels. The problem there is getting service stations to invest in supplying hydrogen when no one owns the cars. You won't buy such a car unless there's a reasonable network of suppliers. 

[Bedford Roughyed]

32 minutes ago, RayCee said:

That's another issue electric car owners face.

I think hydrogen fuel cell is a better bet long term on so many levels. The problem there is getting service stations to invest in supplying hydrogen when no one owns the cars. You won't buy such a car unless there's a reasonable network of suppliers. 

I think Toyota bet on hydrogen but have given up?  (might be wrong on that one). - Edit - might have been hybrids?

The infrastructure will get better, no doubt, but it will take some time to evolve.  

Edited November 12, 2022 by Bedford Roughyed

[RayCee]

34 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

I think Toyota bet on hydrogen but have given up?  (might be wrong on that one). - Edit - might have been hybrids?

The infrastructure will get better, no doubt, but it will take some time to evolve.  

Toyota, Hyundai and some other manufacturers are still believing in HFC cars but are having to wait until they kick off. Toyota isn't a great believer in full electric cars but has recently conceded that for the time being the market is going electric (with government incentives) and committing resources to do more in that area. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

14 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

I think Toyota bet on hydrogen but have given up?  (might be wrong on that one). - Edit - might have been hybrids?

The infrastructure will get better, no doubt, but it will take some time to evolve.  

Yep, and currently the majority of hydrogen produced industrially is far from being 'green'

[GUBRATS]

On 13/11/2022 at 10:48, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Yep, and currently the majority of hydrogen produced industrially is far from being 'green'

Yes , to produce hydrogen you need electricity, lots of it 

Ultimately we need a shed load of nuclear power stations to get us through the next fifty years , and then in that time find ways to create enough green electricity to convert water to hydrogen cheaply and power all those nasty electric cars 

We had the chance to sort out our transport ' needs ' for the future , what we don't ' need ' is cars that can do 0 to 60 in 3 seconds , or anything over 80 MPH , we had the chance , it's gone now 

[EagleEyePie]

On 13/11/2022 at 10:48, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Yep, and currently the majority of hydrogen produced industrially is far from being 'green'

Isn't that also the same for electric cars too. Lithium mining seems like an environmental nightmare. It's a difficult balancing act between reducing reliance on petrol/diesel engines and ensuring you don't shift to 'green' vehicles that just push the environmental damage somewhere else.

And in response to the OP, the one thing that puts me off getting an EV the most right now is definitely the cost. I don't know how any person on an average wage could afford one unless they have huge savings, and in that case it seems daft to splash that amount of money on something that will depreciate quickly. It's about an 80 miles round trip to get to work but other than that I make short journeys. I could probably cope with electric but it's not worth it for the cost.

There's also the issue of charging for those who live in flats and can't have charging points outside their homes. Allocated parking with EV charging points would seem inevitable at some point in the future but it's going to take a long time before the infrastructure is in place.

Until second hand EV's are available for around £5k a lot of people are going to be priced out. I just hope that whatever governments we have in the next 10-20 years don't start penalising drivers even more for owning petrol vehicles because 

[Chrispmartha]

On 11/11/2022 at 03:07, RayCee said:

Do many on the forum own one and how do you rate it? In Kiwiland as in many other places, they are getting subsidised while fossil fuel cars are being penalised. That still hasn't stopped most punters going the petrol/diesel route. So what puts me off considering an electric car?

Range anxiety: In a country with fairly large distances, refueling is an issue.

Charging times: That's not a biggie but still inconvenient.

Initial purchase price: Despite subsidies they are still expensive.

Battery degradation: Links up with range anxiety, gets worse as the car ages. 

What's to like?

Cheaper to run and maintain: That doesn't fully offset the initial purchase price but still useful.

Nice to drive: I've only driven one once and for a short distance in town but I loved the quietness and perky performance.

Conclusion: Hybrid is an option I'd consider but electric is a bridge too far at present.

I have a Polestar 2 - it's easily the best car I've had.

Ive never had range anxiety, now I don't travel huge distances but in the odd occasions I have I have not had an issue with using public chargers. I do around 10,000 miles a year and I don't have a home charger!

The Price - I am fortunate that I can put the lease through the company so if I was buying it yes it would be an issue.

You won't notice any battery degradation for years I think it has been over stated.

They are nice to drive and mine is ridiculously quick

I'm not too sure what a Hybrid is trying to solve other than them being cheaper for company car tax, they hardly have any range and you don't get a lot of the benefits of an fully electric - IMO

Edited November 15, 2022 by Chrispmartha

[Chrispmartha]

3 hours ago, EagleEyePie said:

Isn't that also the same for electric cars too. Lithium mining seems like an environmental nightmare. It's a difficult balancing act between reducing reliance on petrol/diesel engines and ensuring you don't shift to 'green' vehicles that just push the environmental damage somewhere else.

And in response to the OP, the one thing that puts me off getting an EV the most right now is definitely the cost. I don't know how any person on an average wage could afford one unless they have huge savings, and in that case it seems daft to splash that amount of money on something that will depreciate quickly. It's about an 80 miles round trip to get to work but other than that I make short journeys. I could probably cope with electric but it's not worth it for the cost.

There's also the issue of charging for those who live in flats and can't have charging points outside their homes. Allocated parking with EV charging points would seem inevitable at some point in the future but it's going to take a long time before the infrastructure is in place.

Until second hand EV's are available for around £5k a lot of people are going to be priced out. I just hope that whatever governments we have in the next 10-20 years don't start penalising drivers even more for owning petrol vehicles because 

Most new cars are not bought outright so the full price is utterly meaningless. You can get EVs at fairly good monthly payments now.

I don't have a charging point at home and I manage fine, Although I will say using public charging points isn't the cheapest way to charge them any more. Ive been impresses with how quickly they are installing charging points in a lot of places though.

[graveyard johnny]

am sure as soon as we all have electric cars the govt will find some reason to penalise us for having them and want us all to buy something else for some other reason 

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

I have a Polestar 2 - it's easily the best car I've had.

Ive never had range anxiety, now I don't travel huge distances but in the odd occasions I have I have not had an issue with using public chargers. I do around 10,000 miles a year and I don't have a home charger!

The Price - I am fortunate that I can put the lease through the company so if I was buying it yes it would be an issue.

You won't notice any battery degradation for years I think it has been over stated.

They are nice to drive and mine is ridiculously quick

I'm not too sure what a Hybrid is trying to solve other than them being cheaper for company car tax, they hardly have any range and you don't get a lot of the benefits of an fully electric - IMO

Mrs PBC has a Kia Ev6. Huge comfortable and 350 mile summer range. 290 in winter. Infrastructure much better now than even 6 months ago mean planning isn’t really difficult. It’s huge and massively comfortable inside with plenty of gadgets if you like that sort of thing. We have home charger but. Use Tesco free whenever possible. 

[JohnM]

 

 

Tesco are about to require a nominal payment to recharge electric cars.

Developments in EVs are gaining pace.

Electric Ford Transits gaining popularity.

Electric cars are a licence to print money for suppliers who are promoting lease and PCPs rather than outright purchase or HP . Rising interest rates?

The towing limit for EVs is in general quite low, reducing the appeal for caravan owners.

In addition, when towing a heavy caravan with a large frontal area, range plummets alarmingly.

EVs are generally much heavier than their IC equivalents. Thus breaching the gross train weight rule is more likely when towing. 

It goes something broadly like this.

If you passed your test before 1997, you can drive a car/trailer combination with a gross train weight of up to 8500 kg.

If you passed after then, you are limited to a gross train weight of ,3,500 kg 

A Polestar 2 weighs around 2000kg, meaning you can only tow a caravan with an MTPLM of 1500 kg. 

The towing limit of a Polestar 2 is 1500 kg.

Thus although EVs may be ok solo, that not yet true for caravanners, of whom there are about 550, 000 on the road ( and they are all in front of you S you drive down to Cornwall)

Fortunately, the life of a new IC car today is approx 13 years, so plenty of time for EV and alternative fuel vehicles to develop.

 

Category B - If you passed your test before 1 January 1997, a category B driving licence allows you to drive a vehicle and trailer with a combined weight of up to 8,250kg. This could be a car towing a caravan, for example. You’re also allowed to drive a minibus. 

If you passed your test after 1 January 1997, the law is slightly different. You can drive vehicles of up to 3,500kg with up to eight passenger seats and with a trailer of up to 750kg. You can also tow heavier trailers, as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

[GUBRATS]

18 hours ago, EagleEyePie said:

Isn't that also the same for electric cars too. Lithium mining seems like an environmental nightmare. It's a difficult balancing act between reducing reliance on petrol/diesel engines and ensuring you don't shift to 'green' vehicles that just push the environmental damage somewhere else.

And in response to the OP, the one thing that puts me off getting an EV the most right now is definitely the cost. I don't know how any person on an average wage could afford one unless they have huge savings, and in that case it seems daft to splash that amount of money on something that will depreciate quickly. It's about an 80 miles round trip to get to work but other than that I make short journeys. I could probably cope with electric but it's not worth it for the cost.

There's also the issue of charging for those who live in flats and can't have charging points outside their homes. Allocated parking with EV charging points would seem inevitable at some point in the future but it's going to take a long time before the infrastructure is in place.

Until second hand EV's are available for around £5k a lot of people are going to be priced out. I just hope that whatever governments we have in the next 10-20 years don't start penalising drivers even more for owning petrol vehicles because 

Spot on , IMO road tax should be put on fuel , you might have somebody who needs a large engined powerful vehicle for towing , but only do 10/20 miles a week , and somebody else doing 500 miles a week , who is using the roads ? 

As I've put earlier , I've just bought my final ' folly ' vehicle , when retirement comes in a few years for myself I'll not be able to afford what I now have , but I doubt I'll be able to afford an electric vehicle either 

Time to but a horse it would seem ?

[GUBRATS]

14 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Most new cars are not bought outright so the full price is utterly meaningless. You can get EVs at fairly good monthly payments now.

I don't have a charging point at home and I manage fine, Although I will say using public charging points isn't the cheapest way to charge them any more. Ive been impresses with how quickly they are installing charging points in a lot of places though.

So renting is cheaper than buying ? , Fine if you have a guaranteed income , funny how everybody forgets to mention the initial rental payment of several thousand pounds though , it isnt any cheaper than buying , you are being conned by a sales pitch 

[GUBRATS]

11 hours ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

Mrs PBC has a Kia Ev6. Huge comfortable and 350 mile summer range. 290 in winter. Infrastructure much better now than even 6 months ago mean planning isn’t really difficult. It’s huge and massively comfortable inside with plenty of gadgets if you like that sort of thing. We have home charger but. Use Tesco free whenever possible. 

How much did it cost ?

[gazza77]

31 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So renting is cheaper than buying ? , Fine if you have a guaranteed income , funny how everybody forgets to mention the initial rental payment of several thousand pounds though , it isnt any cheaper than buying , you are being conned by a sales pitch 

Depends on what lease arrangements you have. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my lease is all inclusive and costs around £350 per month through salary sacrifice. No initial charges either. 

I'm not going to suggest it's cheap, nor affordable for many. I'd very much doubt that the depreciation on a new £65k car over three years would be less than the £12.5k or so I'll be paying though, and that's before taking into consideration servicing, tyres, insurance, etc. that I'd have to pay if I bought. 

[Chrispmartha]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So renting is cheaper than buying ? , Fine if you have a guaranteed income , funny how everybody forgets to mention the initial rental payment of several thousand pounds though , it isnt any cheaper than buying , you are being conned by a sales pitch 

It can be cheaper than buying yes, if you factor in depreciation, but of course buying a 15 year old car will be cheaper than leasing a brand new one.

Initial rental can be one months payment so doesn’t have to be ‘thousands’.

I wouldn’t buy a new car outright it would be madness putting that much money into a heavily depreciating asset unless you are going to keep the car til its end of life that is and you are loaded (even then a lot if wealthy people lease cars)