IMG Grading Unveiled

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 minute ago, steve oates said:

It's a great post, posted at a time some posters are starting to pretend they understand all the IMG gobbledigook.

Look at the league tables. Superleague is 12 clubs. Now look at the Championship. Top club is Featherstone whom I guess nobody in Superleage want when we have Cas and Wakey already struggling to compete.  Hasn't the Featherstone boss said he's packing in? With no French TV contract to share, and the travel costs why would any SL club want Toulouse either?

After that it's Sheffield Eagles whom we all love, but  aren't a Superleague club in waiting in any shape of form. Then we have ex-SL clubs massively devoid of the private finances they used to have like Widnes and Bradford.

I also keep noting the lack of reality when it comes to quality professional players. I read a big article yesterday on the head knocks thing. That's putting people off playing, and if you look at the way the amateur game in all codes is falling it looks like this is why we seem to be stuffed with more failed Aussies than ever.

This ain't "doom and gloom" it's reality, and I would agree with the SL bosses that Superleague is the manifestation of a dozen clubs just about capable of maintaining a TV deal of some sorts. So forget the P & R nonsense (which wrongly became the focus of the game when Nigel Wood was running things) and just have a settled Superleague of the 12 biggest clubs.

Not that that is any long term solution. If the quality of players drops further or rich owners walk or TV deals drop, look out for the 10 club Superleague and the formation of "Calder RLFC"

Sorry Steve I thought your whole thrust was IMG have left the room? Now it's "what IMG are doing is too complicated". 

We used to predict the weather based on when the sky was red*, it was an easy to understand system that anyone could get their head round. Now we rely on meteorologists who use all kinds of complex instruments and calculations to predict the weather, that none of us would be able to easily understand. Which system is preferable? Being complex doesn't mean automatically mean bad. 

*and I believe they still do in [insert rival team of choice].

[Toby Chopra]

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

I think, nore or less the opposite will take place and that's what the purpose of grading is to get rid of Wakey and SRD.

The idea that these two have inherent advantages over other Bs is laughable.

I've said all along that A is the problem and that everyone sould start with a B and see who makes progress in their particular areas for improvement.

Cat  A shouldn't be seen as an end but part of the same process of improvement because no matter how good A might be it can't possibly be perfection.

Or we could spend all our time arguing about how it's not fair, then again if you like Ofsted type things not only is it a never ending process where you ignore the oustanding but you can keep moving the goalposts with new demands just like they do!

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether Cat As are desirable, but I struggle to see how you come to the conclusion that the grading is designed to jettison Wakey and Salford or the like.

Almost all the discussion on here has been about how there clearly is an incumbency advantage and whether that's a good thing or not.

Which clubs do you think are being primed to replace them and how do you see it happening under the grading system proposed? I just don't see how the numbers add up to support your contention, even after the tweaks.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Sorry Steve I thought your whole thrust was IMG have left the room? Now it's "what IMG are doing is too complicated". 

We used to predict the weather based on when the sky was red*, it was an easy to understand system that anyone could get their head round. Now we rely on meteorologists who use all kinds of complex instruments and calculations to predict the weather, that none of us would be able to easily understand. Which system is preferable? Being complex doesn't mean automatically mean bad. 

*and I believe they still do in [insert rival team of choice].

We've had: IMG aren't going to do anything but will get paid anyway, IMG are just here to cover the RFL's wish for managed decline, IMG have left, IMG are guaranteeing untold riches to a chosen six clubs.

Probably some others.

Now, it's IMG are just too complicated.

 

[Oxford]

38 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

but I struggle to see how you come to the conclusion that the grading is designed to jettison Wakey and Salford or the like.

I think it's designed to get rid of perenial ne'erdowells and I only used those two because they were your examples. It is structured for validating when SL wants someone in and someone out, and I've said that certain SL Admin may have had more to do with that than will ever be admitted.

My point is that cat A means certain clubs are already there which is nonsense and will have all the real benefits that come with long term strategies and plans. By making everyone a B and setting targets according to their needs not only will there be less chance of charges of favouritism but it also means everyone will be working towards the same goals. Unless you believe the top sides are perfect in every respect an A grade makes little business sense but plenty of biased logic.

48 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Which clubs do you think are being primed to replace them and how do you see it happening under the grading system proposed?

This would be twofold: short/medium term those championship sides that are likely to bring more fans, much longer term franchise expansion teams.

 

 

 

 

[steve oates]

2 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Sorry Steve I thought your whole thrust was IMG have left the room? Now it's "what IMG are doing is too complicated". 

Don't make it about me, trying to personally discredit a poster is pretty childish.

The answer to the problem used to be if (P & R)  creates yo-yo  clubs then  adopt what the game and the Wigan owner concluded would solve the issue, which was P & R every two years. By the end of the the second year the promoted club would have been able to get a competitive team together and have a fair chance of survival.

Now the whole thing has changed and we have this IMG rubbish, that most people either cannot understand or cannot understand but pretend they do understand.  Instead of allowing the club in the promotion spot to build over two years just have a mechanism to block them altogether if they don't suit.......

[steve oates]

53 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We've had: IMG aren't going to do anything but will get paid anyway, IMG are just here to cover the RFL's wish for managed decline, IMG have left, IMG are guaranteeing untold riches to a chosen six clubs..........

Now, it's IMG are just too complicated.

Now your at it, aping your mate and as for the "we've had" who is "we"? Are you a part of some sort of sub-group of posters on here? Have some manners, if you disagree with someone then say so....  

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, steve oates said:

aping your mate

Doing what to who?

I've met literally one person on this thread and it was long enough ago to almost count as the last century.

[DI Keith Fowler]

19 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Don't make it about me, trying to personally discredit a poster is pretty childish.

The answer to the problem used to be if (P & R)  creates yo-yo  clubs then  adopt what the game and the Wigan owner concluded would solve the issue, which was P & R every two years. By the end of the the second year the promoted club would have been able to get a competitive team together and have a fair chance of survival.

Now the whole thing has changed and we have this IMG rubbish, that most people either cannot understand or cannot understand but pretend they do understand.  Instead of allowing the club in the promotion spot to build over two years just have a mechanism to block them altogether if they don't suit.......

"Don't quote things back to me that I've said in the past".

[LeeF]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

We've had: IMG aren't going to do anything but will get paid anyway, IMG are just here to cover the RFL's wish for managed decline, IMG have left, IMG are guaranteeing untold riches to a chosen six clubs.

Probably some others.

Now, it's IMG are just too complicated.

 

And that’s just from the same poster

[LeeF]

24 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Don't make it about me, trying to personally discredit a poster is pretty childish.

The answer to the problem used to be if (P & R)  creates yo-yo  clubs then  adopt what the game and the Wigan owner concluded would solve the issue, which was P & R every two years. By the end of the the second year the promoted club would have been able to get a competitive team together and have a fair chance of survival.

Now the whole thing has changed and we have this IMG rubbish, that most people either cannot understand or cannot understand but pretend they do understand.  Instead of allowing the club in the promotion spot to build over two years just have a mechanism to block them altogether if they don't suit.......

So which category do you fall into? Or are you the one and probably, in your view, the only one outside of IMG who fully understands and isn’t pretending?

[David Dockhouse Host]

If you have a Google or YouTube account would appreciate some of these comments being dropped onto that feed, copy and paste would be great as it takes the debate to more people and every comment makes a big difference to our engagement score, which on turn makes the video more searchable.

 

 

 

[del capo]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

I think it's designed to get rid of perenial ne'erdowells and I only used those two because they were your examples. It is structured for validating when SL wants someone in and someone out, and I've said that certain SL Admin may have had more to do with that than will ever be admitted.

My point is that cat A means certain clubs are already there which is nonsense and will have all the real benefits that come with long term strategies and plans. By making everyone a B and setting targets according to their needs not only will there be less chance of charges of favouritism but it also means everyone will be working towards the same goals. Unless you believe the top sides are perfect in every respect an A grade makes little business sense but plenty of biased logic.

This would be twofold: short/medium term those championship sides that are likely to bring more fans, much longer term franchise expansion teams.

 

 

 

 

 

[del capo]

Some clubs are already Cat A.

St Helens RLFC for instance are World Club Champions. They hold that spot because of their on field  activities.

But their off field ones  ( investment recruitment  Foundation  efforts infrastructure  etc ) arguably put them there........and they are just Cat B to you ?

That's what this is really all about.

It's up to the clubs themselves to step up to the mark. They are being given a road map. The top ones already share best practice between themselves.

The recent IMG /RFL tweeks have followed consultations that included the Community Board. The message is clear - you will be rewarded for growing the game , and thereby your own fan base. That starts with the kids at school and in the community clubs that look to you

I generally  prefer to avoid comment on our Aussie friends. But Penrith Panthers  alone now have  580 junior teams ( which includes Open Age over there ) under their wing with 8500 players. Their various membership  schemes( all pay )  can count on 125000  members ( yes that's not a typo !). And that's largely occurred over the last 10 years

Every club over here that wants to progress will  now need to produce it's own ' Community Development Plan' . They should make good reading........

I doubt that the Cougars will generate enough support for a Yorkshire semi - pro Competition but good look to them.

This vote will sail through

[Oxford]

Overall one thing is on the money the vote will sail through:

Because it's seen as a last chance saloon,

Because there is no alternative,

Because more people see it as positive and productive than don't.

If your club is one of the prospective As irrespective of anything else you should celebrate this and the fact that if others fall by the wayside it's their own fault.

I don't think discussing this is useful anymore.

 

[Derwent Parker]

1 hour ago, Oxford said:

Overall one thing is on the money the vote will sail through:

Because it's seen as a last chance saloon,

Because there is no alternative,

Because more people see it as positive and productive than don't.

If your club is one of the prospective As irrespective of anything else you should celebrate this and the fact that if others fall by the wayside it's their own fault.

I don't think discussing this is useful anymore.

 

It will sail thru because SL teams have 2 votes each =24 the other 24 have 1 vote each so they only need one other team/vote????

As many have said on here everything is weighted / biased towards the chosen few.

12 will be happy the rest ????????????????????????

[Oxford]

3 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

12 will be happy the rest ????????????????????????

I agree we're at a crossroad where I suspect we might lose far more than the M62 Sport  title.

It does look like the idea that some clubs are holding progress back has become the motivation for decisions, however much nonsense that may be.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Oxford

[Derwent]

The other code are looking at their future structure and making comments that 10 clubs is the optimum number for their top league from 2025. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a similar proposal evolve in RL during IMG’s tenure.

[del capo]

1 hour ago, Derwent Parker said:

It will sail thru because SL teams have 2 votes each =24 the other 24 have 1 vote each so they only need one other team/vote????

As many have said on here everything is weighted / biased towards the chosen few.

12 will be happy the rest ????????????????????????

No.

I've said it on here more than once.

No single part of the game ( in your case SL ) can outvote the others. SL would need at least 4 Championship votes with them.

The rules are quite clear. Google them. SL on its own cannot dictate.

This will go through because at least 4 Champ and League 1 agree with it and the 7 Community reps  given the latest tweeks certainly will...

[ATLANTISMAN]

We are all missing a trick here.

The reality is the heartbeat of the game is in the north (Massive population) we have to preserve the top clubs + IMHO 2 in France (Also in traditional areas) + London which is so important for development of new players.

2 premier divisions of 10/12 would be fine with promotion and relegation.

Then the real key to expansion is INTERNATIONALS held throughout England areas (Outside of the heartlands) identified London Birmingham Norwich Brighton Bristol Plymouth.

Private equity in to back the internationals and the domestic game will then flourish and grow.

 

Paul

[del capo]

5 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

We are all missing a trick here.

The reality is the heartbeat of the game is in the north (Massive population) we have to preserve the top clubs + IMHO 2 in France (Also in traditional areas) + London which is so important for development of new players.

2 premier divisions of 10/12 would be fine with promotion and relegation.

Then the real key to expansion is INTERNATIONALS held throughout England areas (Outside of the heartlands) identified London Birmingham Norwich Brighton Bristol Plymouth.

Private equity in to back the internationals and the domestic game will then flourish and grow.

 

Paul

Yes.

When we have more than 12 Grade A clubs  banging at the door then we can evolve into a ladder and then maybe 2 divisions.

There is actually no limit to expansion. The NRL are at this point but  so far fail to grasp the nettle. 

Internationals are key but we have no credible opposition in the northern hemisphere

Over to IMG and their Empire.

They are certainly best placed to persuade the NRL that money can be made out of it.....part of the reason they have been brought on board ?

[ATLANTISMAN]

3 minutes ago, del capo said:

Yes.

When we have more than 12 Grade A clubs  banging at the door then we can evolve into a ladder and then maybe 2 divisions.

There is actually no limit to expansion. The NRL are at this point but  so far fail to grasp the nettle. 

Internationals are key but we have no credible opposition in the northern hemisphere

Over to IMG and their Empire.

They are certainly best placed to persuade the NRL that money can be made out of it.....part of the reason they have been brought on board ?

No-one from the NRL is in communication with IMG who are involved right now at a very low level.

[del capo]

3 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

No-one from the NRL is in communication with IMG who are involved right now at a very low level.

IMG footprint will become massive within the RFL as time passes. They need to get there first.

They will use that to advance the potential game coverage in the northern hemisphere and dangle  the potential goodies   in front of an Aussie  board for a media deal that becomes too tempting to refuse . That's what they do isn't it?

It' s always been about the money

IMG only make money if more money is made.....

[Big Picture]

Rugby League clubs have accepted harsh reality as latest IMG move explained says Matthew Shaw in the Huddersfield Daily Examiner, predicting that the proposals will sail through with only a handful of votes against.

[Oxford]

Oh no, not harsh reality!

I think I'd like a show of hands on this, but I don't know what the best question to ask is.

 

[Guest]

Just now, Oxford said:

Oh no, not harsh reality!

I think I'd like a show of hands on this, but I don't know what the best question to ask is.

 

The lack of vocal support for Keighley says it all. Your own club will vote for it. From the Champ I reckon London, Newcastle, York, Sheffield, Widnes will all vote in favour. That's more than enough.