IMG Grading Unveiled

[gogledd]

2 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

https://www.rugby-league.com/uploads/docs/IMG & Rugby League Grading Criteria[81].pdf
 

With a bit more detail

Doesn't appear to be any incentive to run an Academy, or a Women's team....or a wheelchair or disability team. There doesn't appear to be any award for the work clubs do in their community.

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

London might scrape a B based on catchment area, TV viewing, stadium and owner investment but it's a long long road to an A from there.

So that’s 1-2 points, they’ll get 1.5 for the stadium (possibly another 0.125 if AFCW have a screen). Where else are there other points coming from to get up to 8pts plus?

[The Phantom Horseman]

Just now, gogledd said:

Doesn't appear to be any incentive to run an Academy, or a Women's team....or a wheelchair or disability team. There doesn't appear to be any award for the work clubs do in their community.

Yes, it only appears to matter having an Academy or a women's team if you are close to an A grade.

Toulouse's comments about playing more French players counting in their favour seems to be wishful thinking on their part.

[Agbrigg]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Says in the PDF.

Catchment area = Area population ('defined as the population of all cities and towns (i.e. of built-up areas or their subdivisions', data taken from the 2021 census) divided by the number of clubs in that area.

Yes but where does a town finish and another place start. Speaking about my club Wakey. We have neighbours in Cas and Fev. However right in the middle there are places like Normanton and sharlston. Both hotbeds of RL , I wonder who would claim them ?

Then we have quite a large place called Ossett between Wakey and Dewsbury. Who claims that ? 

 

I don't know that much about other geography but I should imagine similar turf wars in the land between Wigan, Saints and Leigh.  Hull is simple though, they have a river which sorts their problem 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, gogledd said:

Doesn't appear to be any incentive to run an Academy, or a Women's team....or a wheelchair or disability team. There doesn't appear to be any award for the work clubs do in their community.

A sop to the people who would whinge, sorry "a compromise to ensure that on field performance of the mens team remains central to the process".

Whilst of course I would like what you say to be included (with some caveats), the chances are the clubs getting A and High B Grades will just be doing these things anyway.

[Roughyed Rats]

13 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Says in the PDF.

Catchment area = Area population ('defined as the population of all cities and towns (i.e. of built-up areas or their subdivisions', data taken from the 2021 census) divided by the number of clubs in that area.

So Oldham Metropolitan Borough has a population of over 242,000 and there is only a single club in that borough. What do they score?

Edited March 9, 2023 by Roughyed Rats

[Agbrigg]

Oh another point, Although Gary Hetherington is probably glad Bramley is no more, I bet he wished he had wiped pesky Hunslet out as well , I bet those cheeky so and So's claim a fair wedge of Leeds

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, LeeF said:

Haven’t you seen Leigh’s new proposal?

I haven't please tell.

[Gav Wilson]

9 minutes ago, gogledd said:

Doesn't appear to be any incentive to run an Academy, or a Women's team....or a wheelchair or disability team. There doesn't appear to be any award for the work clubs do in their community.

 

[LeeF]

15 minutes ago, Jughead said:

There’s absolutely no way London Broncos, London Skolars or Newcastle are getting 8 points plus. Callum Walker strikes again. 

No but he has obtained “clicks” so is well on the way to a Cat B and maybe a Cat A if he wins the RL Journalist of the Year trophy

[Jughead]

14 minutes ago, gogledd said:

Doesn't appear to be any incentive to run an Academy, or a Women's team....or a wheelchair or disability team. There doesn't appear to be any award for the work clubs do in their community.

Is that not encompassed within “fandom” ?

Edited March 9, 2023 by Jughead

[Barley Mow]

13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its certainly interesting yes. For example, do they just go whole hog and say "West Yorkshire plus" for the 11 teams here, or do they go on districts, or do they look at where clubs target and currently get fans from?

Its a very interesting and subjective dynamic, which is probably why its only worth 2 points. 

So the population of the club's 'area' divided by the number of clubs in that 'area'.

Is Cornwall's area Cornwall, the area around Penryn or the approx 100 mile radius which is half way to the next closest club?

Is Leeds' area that run by Leeds Council or a wider area they draw fans from? Do we divide Leeds Council's area by two for Leeds and Hunslet or is Hunslet's area restricted to a smaller part of south Leeds?

Do Midlands Hurricane use the whole of the Midlands or Birmingham or the West Midlands?

Do the London clubs use Greater London, a wider area of the South East or a smaller area around their base?

What on earth do they do for Swinton who don’t play in their traditional catchment area?

I really hope they don't just use the Council area a club is in:

Wakefield District 3
Wigan District 2
Kirklees District 3
Leeds District 2
Hull 2
Cornwall UA 1
Birmingham 1
Salford District 1 or 2?
Conwy County Borough 1
Haringey 1
Merton 1

How the 'areas' are defined would have a big impact on those points.
 

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

But what is “that area” defined as? Saints are close to Liverpool, yet are only eight miles from Wigan, is that one point or two? London Broncos are SW London and Skolars very N London, are they a point each or two each given the distance between the two? 

If they are using census data then it seems to me the most likely definition is:

Local authority population (i.e. the population of the local authority in which Club X is located) divided by the number of clubs in that local authority.

[LeeF]

3 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Is that not encompassed within “fandom” 

It would be and as per the post a couple above it’s a minimum requirement for Cat A

[Barley Mow]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

If they are using census data then it seems to me the most likely definition is:

Local authority population (i.e. the population of the local authority in which Club X is located) divided by the number of clubs in that local authority.

So London Broncos would only be given Merton as their catchment area?

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Oh another point, Although Gary Hetherington is probably glad Bramley is no more, I bet he wished he had wiped pesky Hunslet out as well , I bet those cheeky so and So's claim a fair wedge of Leeds

No more than Leeds can claim of Wakefield MDC!

[Agbrigg]

9 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Is that not encompassed within “fandom” ?

No Mate you are getting confused between fandom and femidom

[Man of Kent]

14 minutes ago, Jughead said:

So that’s 1-2 points, they’ll get 1.5 for the stadium (possibly another 0.125 if AFCW have a screen). Where else are there other points coming from to get up to 8pts plus?

It's 7.5 for B.

2 for performance, 2 for catchment, 1.5 for stadium, 1 for TV viewing figures/social media, 1 for David Hughes' millions. A plausible scraping.

[redjonn]

27 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its certainly interesting yes. For example, do they just go whole hog and say "West Yorkshire plus" for the 11 teams here, or do they go on districts, or do they look at where clubs target and currently get fans from?

Its a very interesting and subjective dynamic, which is probably why its only worth 2 points. 

plus it allows subjectivity... that is a degree of discretion for the adjudicators. Something they may wish to have rather than an absolute criteria. 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by redjonn

[Man of Kent]

6 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

So London Broncos would only be given Merton as their catchment area?

Yep. 215,200 divided by 1.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

So the population of the club's 'area' divided by the number of clubs in that 'area'.

Is Cornwall's area Cornwall, the area around Penryn or the approx 100 mile radius which is half way to the next closest club?

Is Leeds' area that run by Leeds Council or a wider area they draw fans from? Do we divide Leeds Council's area by two for Leeds and Hunslet or is Hunslet's area restricted to a smaller part of south Leeds?

Do Midlands Hurricane use the whole of the Midlands or Birmingham or the West Midlands?

Do the London clubs use Greater London, a wider area of the South East or a smaller area around their base?

What on earth do they do for Swinton who don’t play in their traditional catchment area?

I really hope they don't just use the Council area a club is in:

Wakefield District 3
Wigan District 2
Kirklees District 3
Leeds District 2
Hull 2
Cornwall UA 1
Birmingham 1
Salford District 1 or 2?
Conwy County Borough 1
Haringey 1
Merton 1

How the 'areas' are defined would have a big impact on those points.
 

There may be an element of clubs claiming an area and putting that forward to be judged. For example Leeds Rhinos may actually claim a significant amount from North Yorkshire, Wakefield MDC and Kirklees and be able to justify that as their catchment area based on the data they are privy to. IMG might accept some, none or all of that and include it in. 

I too hope that it isn't as simple as council areas for example. In terms of Leeds again for simplicity, I think Hunslet would really struggle to justify a claim to the southern third, let alone half the City, as "their patch". 

But the very fact this isn't clear or straightforward is probably why it is only worth 2 points.

[Roughyed Rats]

5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Yep. 215,200 divided by 1.

Which scores what? Without knowing the criteria they are setting it still tells us nothing  Oldham would be 242,100 divided by 1. Is it 1 point each? 2-1?, 1-2?

Edited March 9, 2023 by Roughyed Rats

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

It's 7.5 for B.

2 for performance, 2 for catchment, 1.5 for stadium, 1 for TV viewing figures/social media, 1 for David Hughes' millions. A plausible scraping.

Two for performance? Based on what? 2020 didn’t happen, 2021 they were 7th and 2022 they were 11th. They’d need to  win the comp to even get close to that, surely?

What TV figures? They probably haven’t been shown more than twice since relegation in 2019. 

[Barley Mow]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

There may be an element of clubs claiming an area and putting that forward to be judged. For example Leeds Rhinos may actually claim a significant amount from North Yorkshire, Wakefield MDC and Kirklees and be able to justify that as their catchment area based on the data they are privy to. IMG might accept some, none or all of that and include it in. 

I too hope that it isn't as simple as council areas for example. In terms of Leeds again for simplicity, I think Hunslet would really struggle to justify a claim to the southern third, let alone half the City, as "their patch". 

But the very fact this isn't clear or straightforward is probably why it is only worth 2 points.

The way it is set out in the information released so far it seems like a very simple calculation which will probably be based on local authority boundaries. With varying types of local authorities and some clubs being regional rather than locally orientated, etc, I don't think that would be the best approach. 

Clubs are likely to hold data on the location of people buying tickets and merchandise. Using that would give a much better idea of each club's catchment area.

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

Which scores what? Without knowing the criteria they are setting it still tells us nothing

In the overall scheme of the grading it's not a huge deal but it's clearly going to favour the likes of Bradford over Featherstone.