Attendance thread

[Gomersall]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

Yes. Hull has always been traditionally very strong with strong amateur and underage teams. It's amazing how this has never translated to professional level like it has in Wigan or St Helens. The ingredients have been there and the catchment certainly is, even with 2 teams.

I’ve been saying this for years Damien. How many world class players can you name who are/were from Hull? A handful at best. Now compare that to Wigan. I suppose you could say the same about most other towns and cities in the U.K. but Hull is supposedly one of the game’s strongholds.

[Odsal Outlaw]

23 hours ago, Leonard said:

Feels like a compelling GF to me.

Be interesting to see the excuses for why people won't go to it or the Tonga series. 

If the RFL deliver amazing events then we won’t have to worry about excuses. If crowds are low we shouldn’t blame the fans, nobody is obliged to give up their hard earned money.

[Eddie]

41 minutes ago, Odsal Outlaw said:

If the RFL deliver amazing events then we won’t have to worry about excuses. If crowds are low we shouldn’t blame the fans, nobody is obliged to give up their hard earned money.

An international RL game between England and Tonga is an amazing event, what else would you like the RFL to do?

[Spidey]

13 minutes ago, Eddie said:

An international RL game between England and Tonga is an amazing event, what else would you like the RFL to do?

Not host it at one of the lowest attended SL grounds for one

[Damien]

13 minutes ago, Eddie said:

An international RL game between England and Tonga is an amazing event, what else would you like the RFL to do?

I'm not sure putting games on at Saints, Headingley and Huddersfield qualifies as amazing events. They should be great games for sure but an amazing or big event is about more than just the game on the field.

[Dave T]

27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

An international RL game between England and Tonga is an amazing event, what else would you like the RFL to do?

Staging an event is more than a game of Rugby. People can just watch the game OF Rugby on the BBC if that's all they are interested in. An event makes people get off their backsides to attend. 

[Eddie]

27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Staging an event is more than a game of Rugby. People can just watch the game OF Rugby on the BBC if that's all they are interested in. An event makes people get off their backsides to attend. 

What would you suggest? Maybe I’m a dinosaur but I go to a game to watch the rugby, I couldn’t care less if there’s fireworks, a band or whatever. 

[Eddie]

44 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Not host it at one of the lowest attended SL grounds for one

I agree that was a strange decision, particularly when there’s already one at Headingley. 

[roughyed8]

4,500 at the Women's Grand Final today a record for a stand alone women's game

[Eddie]

42 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure putting games on at Saints, Headingley and Huddersfield qualifies as amazing events. They should be great games for sure but an amazing or big event is about more than just the game on the field.

Where would you have played them to make them amazing events? Assuming grounds were available, which of course if a big if, but let’s assume they all are. 

[HawkMan]

11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What would you suggest? Maybe I’m a dinosaur but I go to a game to watch the rugby, I couldn’t care less if there’s fireworks, a band or whatever. 

Yes you are a dinosaur, but so am I!

Nowadays the actual match is only part of the experience,  especially for those not really a committed fan. Those fans going can persuade their partners or mates to go if the day out includes an evening out afterwards,  a nice meal perhaps, a vibrant night life maybe. London would be a better location for at least one of the games. Wives and girlfriends will be keener to go or not fuss about their partners going with the promise of excitement other than the game. Not wishing to put Huddersfield or Warrington down, but I'm guessing the night life there isn't exactly West End of London.

A mate of mine goes around Europe to watch Champions League football, his wife goes too, to the match, because of the fashion shopping and a promise of a meal.

Edited October 8, 2023 by HawkMan

[AB Knight]

4547 at York Valkyrie vs Leeds. A record crowd.

[Damien]

41 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Where would you have played them to make them amazing events? Assuming grounds were available, which of course if a big if, but let’s assume they all are. 

Newcastle, London and Manchester or failing that Leeds. You can't expect people to think something is a premium event when it is played at bog standard small SL grounds and small towns. It's pretty hard to attract anyone but existing RL fans to that.

Grounds are always available. History proves that. I refuse to believe that these 3 matches are being played where they are because they were the only options.

There is nothing amazing about playing 3 internationals at small, bog standard SL grounds and it certainly does nothing to attract neutrals. Geez it does little to even attract RL fans. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Damien

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What would you suggest? Maybe I’m a dinosaur but I go to a game to watch the rugby, I couldn’t care less if there’s fireworks, a band or whatever. 

You aren't the issue. As you say, you go. It's those empty seats alongside you that need filling. 

But tbh the event encompasses everything. It's how these events are staged. The venue, the branding, the technology, the music, pre-match entertainment, pyro, fireworks, Big screens, macots, junior rugby, food, drink, kids entertainment etc - these things are all present at the big sport events and were pretty much all missing from the World Cup for example. 

At the start of SL almost 30 years ago we decided that events were more than a game of Rugby, and we have gone backwards in many cases. 

[Archie Gordon]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

An international RL game between England and Tonga is an amazing event, what else would you like the RFL to do?

I agree. ENG-TON is rugby league royalty. An amazing match up.

I also think we make a bit too much of the need for there to be a full day of entertainment provided on top of the game itself.

But one definition of 'event' is that it is a one-off or rare thing that you don't want to miss. There has to be some scarcity about it. A very short stretch of motorway has 4 weekends in a row of big games - each one is devalued a bit because of that.

[crashmon]

So 1/2 way through the RU world cup, and England RU have announced next years autumn international series, getting fans attention on ticket sales while RU is front in peoples attention.   Why oh Why did England RL not do this at a similar time last year.....

Come on RFL, as soon as the Tonga series starts get marketing next years Samoa series (assuming its Samoa). Get the venues booked and the ticket sales started to drum interested while England RL is on TV and England are playing...

Of course they will do it in May next year when all the momentum has gone though

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

I agree. ENG-TON is rugby league royalty. An amazing match up.

I also think we make a bit too much of the need for there to be a full day of entertainment provided on top of the game itself.

But one definition of 'event' is that it is a one-off or rare thing that you don't want to miss. There has to be some scarcity about it. A very short stretch of motorway has 4 weekends in a row of big games - each one is devalued a bit because of that.

I don't think anyone expects a full day of entertainment, but we do expect a professionally staged event. 

The World Cup was riddled with poor production issues, dodgy screens for VR decisions, poor sound, a failed opening ceremony, average anthems, and a rather 'meh' overall presentation of matches. The semi final at Arsenal was one of the least 'eventy' big events I've ever been to. 

These games usually have a poor atmosphere due to the lack of any kind of continuity and supporters clubs or anything. 

These things matter. Our events are broadly behind competitors imo, look at what the likes of Scotland RU have done with their Autumn internationals and how they've created a real buzz, even when serving up dire rugby union at times. 

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, crashmon said:

So 1/2 way through the RU world cup, and England RU have announced next years autumn international series, getting fans attention on ticket sales while RU is front in peoples attention.   Why oh Why did England RL not do this at a similar time last year.....

Come on RFL, as soon as the Tonga series starts get marketing next years Samoa series (assuming its Samoa). Get the venues booked and the ticket sales started to drum interested while England RL is on TV and England are playing...

Of course they will do it in May next year when all the momentum has gone though

To be fair, this article from 2017 shows that they announced the 2018 Kiwis series immediately following the WC. 

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/england-face-new-zealand-three-match-2018-test-series

The 2015 series outperformed that series despite only being announced in Feb. 

As long as there is a decent lead time, I think it is broadly fine. Although I would say I think the biggest factor between those two series was the stadium choices. 

[crashmon]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, this article from 2017 shows that they announced the 2018 Kiwis series immediately following the WC. 

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/england-face-new-zealand-three-match-2018-test-series

The 2015 series outperformed that series despite only being announced in Feb. 

As long as there is a decent lead time, I think it is broadly fine. Although I would say I think the biggest factor between those two series was the stadium choices. 

Thats my point

They have done this before, and International RL was good when we had 4 nations going..... So they just need to go back to what was working before

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Thats my point

They have done this before, and International RL was good when we had 4 nations going..... So they just need to go back to what was working before

Sorry I should have added more. The 2018 tournament was announced with 12m to go and returned average crowds. I don't disagree it's important, but it ain't a massive deal breaker. Other factors are bigger. 

But I think the bigger point is that the RFL would love to announce follow up games in a timely manner (they have form for doing it) and in fact did announce the France game shortly after the World Cup. It didn't sellout. 

The reasons we don't announce our Autumn internationals 12m in advance is due to the constant bargaining discussions down under. 

 

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

ENG-TON is rugby league royalty.

But who cares enough to make them attend? Not a lot frankly.

RL isn't in the position to just rely on the on field being a good product. It always has to consider the wider attraction, and frankly for England games in the past decade or so it has often been pretty poor.

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

But who cares enough to make them attend? Not a lot frankly.

RL isn't in the position to just rely on the on field being a good product. It always has to consider the wider attraction, and frankly for England games in the past decade or so it has often been pretty poor.

What else would you like them to do, other than put the match on? Serious question, I may be wrong but do people really go for anything else other than the game? Ok kids may like seeing some fireworks or whatever but it’s not going to increase the attendance? 

[Tommygilf]

40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What else would you like them to do, other than put the match on? Serious question, I may be wrong but do people really go for anything else other than the game? Ok kids may like seeing some fireworks or whatever but it’s not going to increase the attendance? 

A lot of it is longer term stuff, but number 1 would be building a culture around going to an England RL match. We don't have that even, so even good games seem a bit soulless at times.

Everything from the location, the venue, the facilities on offer at the venue, the timings and scheduling (a summer saturday afternoon crowd is likely to be different to a November friday night for example) are part of it.

If it was just "put on the match" they could play in a park. Literally everything after that is a consideration to the "event" to some level.

[Odsal Outlaw]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

An international RL game between England and Tonga is an amazing event, what else would you like the RFL to do?

As Dave T says, you aren’t the issue as you will go for the game. But we need to attract more than just the die hards as that clearly isn’t working.  We need to attract the not insignificant ‘event goers’. 

I’d suggest we need to create a big event feel, so we need pre-match entertainment, fan engagement, theatrics, music etc. 

Take darts as an example. It sells out arena after arena every Thursday night in the season. Do 8k people in, for example, Nottingham really care for darts so much they want to pay £30+ (and often much more) when you can barely see the board? No … it’s just a great night out.

What about The Hundred in Cricket … I’ve got friends who have been to cricket for the first time ever because of the way they have staged the games and the way they make it great for kids - not because they love cricket.

There is so much completion for people’s money these days and often much better value ways to spend it than simply 80 minutes of RL. We need to give people more of a reason than the game to turn up. And as I’ve said many times on this board … double headers aren’t the way to do that.

 

One final point - we also need to stop expecting the same people to turn up to our events, our biggest international crowds are consistently in London in test series. There are lots of ‘event goers’ there so I’d have had one Tonga game in the capital.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Odsal Outlaw

[Eddie]

Back to the topic of attendances, does anyone know either of the championship semi final attendances?