Newcastle Thunder — Relegation?

[Blind side johnny]

11 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

RFL dont believe in good foundations in the pro/semi pro set up.

At the last Sky deal - SL teams took around 13% cut in CF from 1.8Million down to 1.5Million each

L1 teams took around 66% cut in CF from 75k down to 25K each

Should protect foundations not chip away at them.

Would have been better to have a equal percentage cut across the board

The relevant distributions for 2024 have not been revealed to the clubs yet. I expect the situation for the Championship and C1 to be even worse.

[EggFace]

13 hours ago, philipw said:

Well it’s only been closed 25 years……

Shows how much I care for the so called beautiful game.

[Mumby Magic]

On 22/08/2023 at 18:23, The Blues Ox said:

I miss ShropshireBull telling us how Newcastle should be in SL with York. Not a clue what's happened to him.

Is that sarcasm and you do know what happened....

[Derwent Parker]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

The relevant distributions for 2024 have not been revealed to the clubs yet. I expect the situation for the Championship and C1 to be even worse.

I wouldn't  be surprised if we lost the 20k - someone in SL will have already suggested it

[dealwithit]

10 hours ago, Griff said:

Why don't you say what you think?

All you've said so far is that it should be discussed.

Because I live thousands of miles away and I’ve never been to Newcastle. From my arm chair I can read that the owner has cut the budget, the team has gone part time and Hogan has left the set up. 
From where I’m sitting, I thought there’d be more discussion. I use this forum to learn about what’s happening on the ground. 

[EggFace]

Well some postives have come out of the Newcastle with local lad Sam Luckly doing very well at Hull K.R.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, dealwithit said:

Because I live thousands of miles away and I’ve never been to Newcastle. From my arm chair I can read that the owner has cut the budget, the team has gone part time and Hogan has left the set up. 
From where I’m sitting, I thought there’d be more discussion. I use this forum to learn about what’s happening on the ground. 

Fair enough. I live a hundred miles away and I've read the same thing. The power of the internet, eh?

Why the interest in a city you've never visited?

[RS]

18 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Is the owner actually still interested? Without that any intervention would be a complete waste of time.

I did hear when we were up there recently that he was going through a divorce and his wealth had been halved hence the reduction of support. 

[dealwithit]

11 hours ago, Griff said:

Fair enough. I live a hundred miles away and I've read the same thing. The power of the internet, eh?

Why the interest in a city you've never visited?

I guess I’m naturally inquisitive. Because they were dubbed the great opportunity for the RFL. Launched a plan to win SL by 2030. Yet they’re about to be relegated. I was hoping to learn why. Perhaps the owner’s divorce goes some way to explain the downfall. 

[HawkMan]

44 minutes ago, dealwithit said:

I guess I’m naturally inquisitive. Because they were dubbed the great opportunity for the RFL. Launched a plan to win SL by 2030. Yet they’re about to be relegated. I was hoping to learn why. Perhaps the owner’s divorce goes some way to explain the downfall. 

The explanation is NUFC. Trying to start a pro RL Club in a soccer mad city like Newcastle is tough at the best of times. But as NUFC are aiming for soccer stratosphere with the help of the Saudis,  it's nigh on impossible to divert the locals away from possible global recognition. Technically  bearing in mind FFP, they are the richest sports franchise in the world,  Saudi riches are literally billions. The Thunder has the same problem as the Broncos,  sustaining sufficient interest after the initial curiosity of the locals is tough.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by HawkMan

[Derwent]

I posted this last year….

 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, dealwithit said:

I guess I’m naturally inquisitive. Because they were dubbed the great opportunity for the RFL. Launched a plan to win SL by 2030. Yet they’re about to be relegated. I was hoping to learn why. Perhaps the owner’s divorce goes some way to explain the downfall. 

Ah right.  Well, that tag was always overstated, imho.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

The explanation is NUFC. Trying to start a pro RL Club in a soccer mad city like Newcastle is tough at the best of times. 

Plonking a club in a Rugby League mad area like Brisbane is very different to plonking a club in a soccer mad area like Newcastle.  Aussies just don't seem to get that.

[Mumby Magic]

Think we need to stop classing them as an expansion team. In whatever guise they've been going for 24 years. For me only Cornwall are wet behind the ears and possibly Midlands, the rest are established. 

What attendances are they averaging?

[Mathius Hellwege]

12 minutes ago, Griff said:

Plonking a club in a Rugby League mad area like Brisbane is very different to plonking a club in a soccer mad area like Newcastle.  Aussies just don't seem to get that.

So we should leave Huddersfield and shrink further 

[Griff]

8 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

So we should leave Huddersfield and shrink further 

No idea what your line of thought is there.

[Phil W]

From my point of view as a Thunder season ticket holder.

Yes playing numbers at a community level have dropped off, this is about the same as the average across the country. But with fewer numbers to start with will always look worse. Can that be re-built? Yes it can but that takes time and the club is aware of this.

Can't say too much about off the pitch, owners etc but we have to be more realistic and honest on what we can afford to do and that doesn't involve winning Super League by 2030. As relegation looks likely we have to take our medicine and regroup. The players under Chris Thorman are fighting and look like they care 

From my point of view as a fan, albeit a relatively new one, there's so much potential here and yes football is king. But St James Park sells out every week, there's an opportunity for parents to bring their kids to live sport at a reasonable price, so yes it's a challenge but not unrealistic.

In terms of people around the club, we have a small group of people day to day who care about the club and we're in good hands there. 

What we're starting to see is a better link between the University game and Thunder which could bring players through, but these players need time.

If anyone knows anyone visiting or coming to live in Newcastle get in touch with Thunder and come down to Kingston Park and get involved.

[dealwithit]

37 minutes ago, Griff said:

Plonking a club in a Rugby League mad area like Brisbane is very different to plonking a club in a soccer mad area like Newcastle.  Aussies just don't seem to get that.

Melbourne?

[Mathius Hellwege]

54 minutes ago, dealwithit said:

Melbourne?

The M62 corridor is enough faction would deem an NRL club there unthinkable

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, dealwithit said:

Melbourne?

Do you know how much cash was "invested" in this club? It was more than our game would even contemplate and it is still the lesser sport in the city by a long chalk.

[Griff]

2 hours ago, dealwithit said:

Melbourne?

I would suggest to you that Rugby League has a higher profile in Melbourne, a city of some five million souls, than it has in Newcastle, population in the region of 750,000.

Mebourne's population is double that of the UK's second largest city.

[glossop saint]

9 hours ago, HawkMan said:

The explanation is NUFC. Trying to start a pro RL Club in a soccer mad city like Newcastle is tough at the best of times. But as NUFC are aiming for soccer stratosphere with the help of the Saudis,  it's nigh on impossible to divert the locals away from possible global recognition. Technically  bearing in mind FFP, they are the richest sports franchise in the world,  Saudi riches are literally billions. The Thunder has the same problem as the Broncos,  sustaining sufficient interest after the initial curiosity of the locals is tough.

 

If we are discounting places where soccer is number 1 then we should knock expansion on the head now. In fact we can not bother in 99% of League playing towns I expect. Having lived up there then yes there are a lot of football fans but then again there are everywhere. There were also people who didn't care for it.

Newcastle were growing well, but they've had some changes the last few years with people coming and going which I don't think has helped. Making brash statements never helps and they very rarely come true (special mention to a Mr D Beaumont on being the exception to the rule). If nothing else it makes me nervous about what the owners intentions are when the inevitable tough periods come. I would suggest no other club has done what they have in the last decade in terms of improving their lot and the sport in their local area. It's a shame that this tough patch comes at a time which might lock them out for good.

[dealwithit]

21 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Do you know how much cash was "invested" in this club? It was more than our game would even contemplate and it is still the lesser sport in the city by a long chalk.

Yeah, I know. But doesn’t it show that you kinda can plonk a team somewhere as long as you commit long term? Obviously the RFL doesn’t have the cash, corporate partners or the track record for this to happen in the UK. 

[mrfranco]

1 hour ago, dealwithit said:

Yeah, I know. But doesn’t it show that you kinda can plonk a somewhere as long as you commit long term? the RFL doesn’t have , corporate partners or the track record for this to happen in the UK. 

I've been trying to think of an equivalent to the NRL (SuperLeague/ARL) expansion to Melbourne in the UK. I think the equivalent would be something like a London team in the NFL or the NBA. Despite all the publicity and the TV coverage for a long time now, these are not mainstream sports in this (the UK) market. But if those leagues plonked a team there, I'm sure it would work. Because they have the cash and not forgetting the glamour and attention-grabbing pull to make it work. Bit like the NRL in Melbourne (perhaps with more emphasis on the cash in that case). As you say, SL does not have these things. The Storm show it is possible, but it's very hard to see how that could be replicated over here.

That said, one *very* rich guy (we're talking beyond the wealth of the current Broncos ownership) with a passion and crucially willingness to keep on pumping the cash in could change that picture completely.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by mrfranco
Tidied up a bit

[mrfranco]

3 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

I've been trying to think of an equivalent to the NRL (SuperLeague/ARL) expansion to Melbourne in the UK. I think the equivalent would be something like a London team in the NFL or the NBA. all and coverage for a long time now, these are not mainstream sports in this (the UK) market. But if those leagues plonked a team there, I'm sure it would work. Because they have the and not forgetting the glamour and attention-grabbing pull to make it work. Bit like the NRL in Melbourne (perhaps with more on the cash in that case). As you say, SL does not have these things. The Storm show it is possible, but it's very hard to see how that could be replicated over here.

That said, one *very* rich guy (we're talking beyond the of the current Broncos ownership) with a passion and crucially to keep on pumping the cash in could change that completely.  

Maybe a Russell Crowe-type figure could emulate what the Hollywood guys at Wrexham have been doing, and in UK RL could be at or near the summit of things very quickly. But until/unless that actually happens, it's fantasy land stuff, sadly.